There were unkown implications behind that, nothing states Kratos can teleport through time at will afaik, hell how do you know he didnt just already set the loom chamber to send them to the present, timelines are still completly diffrent in LOK, if Kratos tries to enter Kains timeline, the immutable timeline of LOK will delete kratos thus Kain is the winner anyway.
having knowledge of the opponent would not give him knowledge of an opponents entire timeline and technically this would break the thread because it would not be Kratos vs the Kain specified in the rules.
Originally posted by Burning thoughtNothing states it, it just happened.
There were unkown implications behind that, nothing states Kratos can teleport through time at will afaik, hell how do you know he didnt just already set the loom chamber to send them to the present, timelines are still completly diffrent in LOK, if Kratos tries to enter Kains timeline, the immutable timeline of LOK will delete kratos thus Kain is the winner anyway.having knowledge of the opponent would not give him knowledge of an opponents entire timeline and technically this would break the thread because it would not be Kratos vs the Kain specified in the rules.
How in the FVCK could Kratos have gone back to the Loom Chamber? ONE Titan is bigger than the whole place, let alone the whole race.
PROVE Kratos used the Loom Chamber.
Fights take place in a neutral ground where all powers will work, the LOK immutable timeline has no effect on this thread.
It would give him knowledge of wqhere Kain came from and how old he is.
anjd it would by extension kill the Kain Kratos is fighting, thus makiing Kratos winner.
Originally posted by Burning thought
There were unkown implications behind that, nothing states Kratos can teleport through time at will afaik, hell how do you know he didnt just already set the loom chamber to send them to the present, timelines are still completly diffrent in LOK, if Kratos tries to enter Kains timeline, the immutable timeline of LOK will delete kratos thus Kain is the winner anyway.having knowledge of the opponent would not give him knowledge of an opponents entire timeline and technically this would break the thread because it would not be Kratos vs the Kain specified in the rules.
Half the stuff your saying makes no sense...... and the only reason your going for kain is because you WAAAAYYYY to biased. im mean, look at your picture you have in your replies. ive played both games, so i would know who would win. and dark jaxx you make a very solid statement 🙂
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Nothing states it, it just happened.How in the FVCK could Kratos have gone back to the Loom Chamber? ONE Titan is bigger than the whole place, let alone the whole race.
PROVE Kratos used the Loom Chamber.
Fights take place in a neutral ground where all powers will work, the LOK immutable timeline has no effect on this thread.
It would give him knowledge of wqhere Kain came from and how old he is.
anjd it would by extension kill the Kain Kratos is fighting, thus makiing Kratos winner.
I dont have to prove anything, I simply made a statement just as good as yours, which cancels it out since neither have proof
yes it does because you said hes going into the LOK time stream, thatds Kratos choice...so he would be doomed.
Originally posted by k1Lla441
Half the stuff your saying makes no sense...... and the only reason your going for kain is because you WAAAAYYYY to biased. im mean, look at your picture you have in your replies. ive played both games, so i would know who would win. and dark jaxx you make a very solid statement 🙂
Ime not biased at all, not over anyway, hell id give kain more cheese than some characters but I love the GOW series as well, having completed all the games and almost got a PS3 just to get the next game so dont give all this "ive played the games" nonsense.
Throw down your points, Kain could easily destroy Kratos with a simple blood shower, easily.
Originally posted by Burning thoughtNope, thing is, we did not see Kratos use the Loom Chamber, the Titans could not even realistically fit in the Loom chamber, so logic contradicts your point, and Kratos can't preset the Loom Chamber to take them back anywhere(and it's not like the Titans would even be able to fit in the portal anyway).
I dont have to prove anything, I simply made a statement just as good as yours, which cancels it out since neither have proofyes it does because you said hes going into the LOK time stream, thatds Kratos choice...so he would be doomed.
I guess you did not hear me.
In vs. matches all characters are set in a neutral ground where the characters fight to the best of their abilities.
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Nope, thing is, we did not see Kratos use the Loom Chamber, the Titans could not even realistically fit in the Loom chamber, so logic contradicts your point, and Kratos can't preset the Loom Chamber to take them back anywhere(and it's not like the Titans would even be able to fit in the portal anyway).I guess you did not hear me.
In vs. matches all characters are set in a neutral ground where the characters fight to the best of their abilities.
He uses the loom chamber to get back and it doesnt say anywhere that someone has to be in the chamber to use its power, Kratos certainly doesnt according to you so your point also powers mine, either way your simply guessing at whats happening, you neither know if Kratos can do it without the power of the chamber or not, nothing says he can and the storyline at the end doesnt say he wasnt still using the power of the chamber.
and he can be on Neutral gound, however if hes going into the timestream of the LOK verse then hes no longer on the battleground they started on, therefore abject to the rules of the timestream LOK is in.
Originally posted by Burning thoughtSee, this is the crucial flaw of your argument, you are expecting me to prove the negative that he did not use the Loom chamber, he never was shown to, you have to prove he did. Besides...A Titan as I said could not fit in the Loom chamber if he wanted to. 😐
He uses the loom chamber to get back and it doesnt say anywhere that someone has to be in the chamber to use its power, Kratos certainly doesnt according to you so your point also powers mine, either way your simply guessing at whats happening, you neither know if Kratos can do it without the power of the chamber or not, nothing says he can and the storyline at the end doesnt say he wasnt still using the power of the chamber.and he can be on Neutral gound, however if hes going into the timestream of the LOK verse then hes no longer on the battleground they started on, therefore abject to the rules of the timestream LOK is in.
Can I see this excerpt where it says LOK time is immutable?
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
See, this is the crucial flaw of your argument, you are expecting me to prove the negative that he did not use the Loom chamber, he never was shown to, you have to prove he did. Besides...A Titan as I said could not fit in the Loom chamber if he wanted to. 😐Can I see this excerpt where it says LOK time is immutable?
It shows you dont have to be in the loom chamber to use it when Kratos just touches the titans and makes them all disapear, yet that does not dissolve the chance that he may have already readied the loom chamber and either way, as i said, nothing there shows he can move through time on a whim anyway, not definatley.
sure: http://www.thelostworlds.net/Defiance/Question_and_Answer_with_Jen,_Richard,_and_Kyle.html
If Ariel enters the Reaver in the BO era, does this alter the events of Soul Reaver?No. Time in the world of Legacy of Kain is basically immutable - those who travel through it can't change history, because they didn't. Jen, Richard, and Kyle mention the film 12 Monkeys at this point as an example of this concept. While some things (like Ariel's role at the Spirit Forge) might seem out of place, it will all make sense in the end.
besides Kratos hardly does it instantly, he glows blue for about 5 seconds or so, Kain wouldnt need half that time to turn him into a white, bloodless wreck on the ground.
Originally posted by Burning thought1. ...Umm, actually, that DOES show he can move through time on his own accord.
It shows you dont have to be in the loom chamber to use it when Kratos just touches the titans and makes them all disapear, yet that does not dissolve the chance that he may have already readied the loom chamber and either way, as i said, nothing there shows he can move through time on a whim anyway, not definatley.sure: http://www.thelostworlds.net/Defiance/Question_and_Answer_with_Jen,_Richard,_and_Kyle.html
besides Kratos hardly does it instantly, he glows blue for about 5 seconds or so, Kain wouldnt need half that time to turn him into a white, bloodless wreck on the ground.
Kratos would only need an instant to freeze Kain to stone, go figure.
2. See, but that doesn't apply to Kratos in a vs. thread. All that bullshit is saying is that there is a pre-determined fate for LOK, which is present in ALOT of fictions. But Kratos is not a part of the LOK timeline at all, so he is not restricted by that rule.
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. ...Umm, actually, that DOES show he can move through time on his own accord.Kratos would only need an instant to freeze Kain to stone, go figure.
2. See, but that doesn't apply to Kratos in a vs. thread. All that bullshit is saying is that there is a pre-determined fate for LOK, which is present in ALOT of fictions. But Kratos is not a part of the LOK timeline at all, so he is not restricted by that rule.
1. You can break from stone, anything can including Kratos and not really an instant, first he would have to get out the head, then aim it, then if he does the charge attack and theres a short range on that head anyway so if we assumed they started right next to eachother then Kratos has a cat in hells chance of winning, a chance, but not much....but I doubt they start next to eachother.
2. He is because he would be entering the timeline, thus, Kratos entering the timeline at that stage would be tried to write in the Nosgoth timeline, which ofc is immutable so it would cough him out and delete him, either way Kratos going back in time will do nothing anyway.
Originally posted by Burning thought
It shows you dont have to be in the loom chamber to use it when Kratos just touches the titans and makes them all disapear, yet that does not dissolve the chance that he may have already readied the loom chamber and either way, as i said, nothing there shows he can move through time on a whim anyway, not definatley.besides Kratos hardly does it instantly, he glows blue for about 5 seconds or so, Kain wouldnt need half that time to turn him into a white, bloodless wreck on the ground.
Kratos can control time instantly but it took a couple of seconds to use it because he had to get all the titans. if it was just himself, i think it would be a lot easier because, remember, the titans are pretty big. also, you have played all the games right? so you should know what the golden fleece does.
He doesnt control time, at max he controls fate, the fate of all those greeks, not Kain, furthermore he cannot do anything else with that fate, he couldnt affect Kains fate since its immutable even if Kain had a connection to the fate that Kratos controls.
The blade of Olympus is nothing, the Reaver killed a Godlike entity which could annhilate all the Titans and Olympians without being seen or damaged, also you seem to be mistaken, the blade did not kill all the Titans, it imprisoned them...and thats when it was first created with all the powers of the Olmypian gods, in the hands of Zeus, Kratos has no real feats with the blade, Kains arsenal far outweighs Kratos'.
overall you could do this simply with:
Weapons: Kain, Reaver>BoO especially in Kratos hands anyway
Magic: Kain by miles
Endurance: Kain could survive most things Kratos has, Kratos would die from most of Kains attacks.
Speed:Kain
Kratos has no chance
Originally posted by Burning thought
He doesnt control time, at max he controls fate, the fate of all those greeks, not Kain, furthermore he cannot do anything else with that fate, he couldnt affect Kains fate since its immutable even if Kain had a connection to the fate that Kratos controls.overall you could do this simply with:
Weapons: Kain, Reaver>BoO especially in Kratos hands anyway
Magic: Kain by miles
Endurance: Kain could survive most things Kratos has, Kratos would die from most of Kains attacks.
Speed:Kain
Kratos has no chance
Your very mistaken to, because kain isnt aloud to use the reaver in this fight, and kratos can still use the blade. and since he doesnt have the reaver, the first fight kratos then wins. you act like the blade sucks in all, but it killed the spartan army in on swipe. and dont say "well the reaver could do that" because he aint aloud to use it. and agian, you are being waaayyyy to biased, because your forgetting the magic he got was given to him by the titans, and kains magic cant match his. and endurance, c'mon, kratos is a spartan! he aint never gonna slow down. and with speed, your also forgetting rage of the titans, when his combo attacks are too beastly. face it, your to biased, and kratos takes this. your the only person in this thread who thinks kain would win.
Originally posted by k1Lla441
Your very mistaken to, because kain isnt aloud to use the reaver in this fight, and kratos can still use the blade. and since he doesnt have the reaver, the first fight kratos then wins. you act like the blade sucks in all, but it killed the spartan army in on swipe. and dont say "well the reaver could do that" because he aint aloud to use it. and agian, you are being waaayyyy to biased, because your forgetting the magic he got was given to him by the titans, and kains magic cant match his. and endurance, c'mon, kratos is a spartan! he aint never gonna slow down. and with speed, your also forgetting rage of the titans, when his combo attacks are too beastly. face it, your to biased, and kratos takes this. your the only person in this thread who thinks kain would win.
false, the thread starter said Kain cannot use the spirit reaver at the end of Defiance, thus Kain can still use the Blood reaver which is nearly as good. The blade doesnt suck but its not comparable to the reaver since its power feats are all done by Zeus, kratos has not shown being able to use the power of the blade to wipe out armies so what the swords done in Zeus' hands cannot be used for Kratos. As i said, Kain can use the blood reaver.
The magic he got was given by the Titans so Kains magic is not as good? where is the logic in that? there is none thats why, Kratos magic is not only weak but its simple, both Atlas quake and Cronos rage require Kain to be close which he doesnt have to be and tbh kain could just turn into mist to escape both even if he was in close range, other powers include the head which is more useful to kratos yet short range and cumbersome and the Typhons bane bow similiary useless since its power is low.
Endurancewise Kain doesnt ever slow down since hes undead, his body will not be fatigued since his body is dead, and by Endurance i probably meant durability, Kain would survive far longer under any of Kratos powers than Kratos could of kains, Kratos wouldnt survive a single strike from most.
also who thinks Kratos wins is irrelvent if they dont debate it, since no one has won the debate as of yet, nobody is an overall winner, and your claim is false, the thread starter thought kain would win.
possible battle scenes from my point of view
Close range
Lets supposing through some queer reason Kain and Kratos start within reach, before Kratos could really do much of anything, Kain could eliminate the gap by turning to mist and moving away, Kratos doesnt move like the wind, hes a slow guy, so hes got no chance from the beginning, then Kain has so many choices, he could slow time and decapitate the oaf, he could blast him with lightning, he could rip out his soul, he could use blood shower and turn Kratos into a lifeless corpse, he could do so many things....
The only moves Kratos could do are not fast enough to stop Kain from going into mist which is near instant wheras even the fast "triangle" blast from the head of Euryale takes near a second to fire as the eyes flash, then youve got the fact the head is a cumbersome lump to aim/get out, his other moves are worthless here and trying to attack kain with blades is pointless since thats just as slow.
inescapable close range
lets say Kain has to fight in close range with his sword, in an instant Kain could have his repel shield up and be invuleralbe hten just slice Kratos into chunks of meat. Simple fact here, once Kain has the repel shield up which is done instantly, youve not got much chance. Even without the shield Kain can use a combination of fast attacks and mist dodges to dominate in close range.
long range
Similiar to the second part of "close range" simply put, Kain has so many long range attacks he could be using it would alone make Kratos no better than a small lamb for all the good it would do.
Originally posted by Burning thought
false, the thread starter said Kain cannot use the spirit reaver at the end of Defiance, thus Kain can still use the Blood reaver which is nearly as good. The blade doesnt suck but its not comparable to the reaver since its power feats are all done by Zeus, kratos has not shown being able to use the power of the blade to wipe out armies so what the swords done in Zeus' hands cannot be used for Kratos. As i said, Kain can use the blood reaver.The magic he got was given by the Titans so Kains magic is not as good? where is the logic in that? there is none thats why, Kratos magic is not only weak but its simple, both Atlas quake and Cronos rage require Kain to be close which he doesnt have to be and tbh kain could just turn into mist to escape both even if he was in close range, other powers include the head which is more useful to kratos yet short range and cumbersome and the Typhons bane bow similiary useless since its power is low.
The only reason it hasnt shown kratos destroying many,many armies is because since he got it, he hasnt FACED any armies. i bet u if he ran into and army while he had it, they would die just as fast. and it makes no sense that a sword works in zeus' hands but not kratos'. its a sword, it works the same no matter who wields it. also, you say that kratos' time controlling abilities arent true, and if they werent, why would mother gaia say he has the power to control time? and dont tell me " he cant control kains life because hes not in lok ". you automatically asume that kratos and kain will be fighting in lok. the thread starter said kratos has all his powers, except go form, and he gets to use them, which IS THE POWER TO CONTROL TIME. so right when the fight starts, kain is pretty much dead because kratos has already deemed his fate as a loss.