Originally posted by chillmeistergenHell, yeah. Lightsabres and the force are just awesome. They are like fantasy swords and magic...just way cooler.
Yeah, they're pretty cool, I wouldn't mind owning one (a real one, if there was such a thing). I've always thought it would be fun to chop a fridge in half, or something.
Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Okay. Considering you're being nice ( 🙂 ), I won't try to prolong this debate.Anyways, I do see your point. I certainly do. I also agree with you that the OT's story was probably better told, but the PT's story- when you look past the fart jokes and the stupid dialogue- is darker, more complex, and less black-and-white styled than the OT's.
I love all the SW movies. But I'm just sick of people badmouthing the PT whenever they get the chance; I mean, don't you think it's kind of stupid when people refer to Lucas as a 'talentless hack', for example, when he's the man who created their beloved OT and the SW universe?
Seriously. I don't have anything 'gainst people who liked the OT more than the PT. I do have something against people who insult it non-stop, for no reason. And they ruin a huge amount of the fun of discussing the SW saga. Seriously, that's what annoys me.
Well, I do agree with you, to an extent on that matter. GL is a very imaginative man who brought us the SW Universe in the OT and, thus, spawned a slew of toys, comic books, novels, t.v. series, spin-off movies, etc. I, for the most part, just vividly recall the utter heartfelt disappointment when I watched The Phantom Menace for the very first time in 1999. I saw 3 things, to be specific: CGI Galore, bad acting, most notably from lil' Anny, and less than memorable characters like Jar Jar F*cking Binks. I saw spectacular scenes, like the pod race scene, that was nothing more than a show-off of modern day CGI, rather than focusing on story/plot depth/character development.
I would, however, like to hear your interpretation of "fart jokes", "black-and-white style", and "stupid dialogue", if you please.
Originally posted by Impediment
Well, I do agree with you, to an extent on that matter. GL is a very imaginative man who brought us the SW Universe in the OT and, thus, spawned a slew of toys, comic books, novels, t.v. series, spin-off movies, etc. I, for the most part, just vividly recall the utter heartfelt disappointment when I watched The Phantom Menace for the very first time in 1999. I saw 3 things, to be specific: CGI [b]Galore, bad acting, most notably from lil' Anny, and less than memorable characters like Jar Jar F*cking Binks. I saw spectacular scenes, like the pod race scene, that was nothing more than a show-off of modern day CGI, rather than focusing on story/plot depth/character development.I would, however, like to hear your interpretation of "fart jokes", "black-and-white style", and "stupid dialogue", if you please. [/B]
'Fart jokes' and 'stupid-dialogue' refer to the PT, ye know. I don't think I need to go more in-depth on it.
'Black-and-white' style? Right. The bad guys are bad. Really bad. The good guys are good. Really good. Even Han Solo, the only character who had any sort of anti-hero/ambiguous morality potential, ends up on the perfect note; all the heroes are perfect, in the end. They have no glaring flaws- and the villains are dead, and the little teddy bears can celebrate (I find the Ewoks to be far more annoying than Jar-Jar).
The PT, meanwhile, ends with the bad guys ending up on a triumphant note, just as the good guys were crushed, deceived, massacred, and betrayed. The main focus of the PT- Anakin- cannot truly be perceived as either a villain or a hero. Is he a hero? Definetly not. A hero does not murder his friends and kill his wife. A villain? No. He has good intentions. He wants to bring order, peace, and security to the galaxy; in the end, he is a broken, crushed man. Meanwhile, the good guys are sent to exile after being emotionally broken; they failed so epically. They were blind and self-absorbed, and rightfully end up in exile; you witness likeable characters despairing, breaking apart. For example, the final scene between Ani and Obi, which is- IMO- the most powerful scene in the saga.
Now, tell me. What storyline is darker, more complex, and less black-and-white-ish? Certainly not the OT.
Originally posted by Master Crimzon
'Fart jokes' and 'stupid-dialogue' refer to the PT, ye know. I don't think I need to go more in-depth on it.'Black-and-white' style? Right. The bad guys are bad. Really bad. The good guys are good. Really good. Even Han Solo, the only character who had any sort of anti-hero/ambiguous morality potential, ends up on the perfect note; all the heroes are perfect, in the end. They have no glaring flaws- and the villains are dead, and the little teddy bears can celebrate (I find the Ewoks to be far more annoying than Jar-Jar).
The PT, meanwhile, ends with the bad guys ending up on a triumphant note, just as the good guys were crushed, deceived, massacred, and betrayed. The main focus of the PT- Anakin- cannot truly be perceived as either a villain or a hero. Is he a hero? Definetly not. A hero does not murder his friends and kill his wife. A villain? No. He has good intentions. He wants to bring order, peace, and security to the galaxy; in the end, he is a broken, crushed man. Meanwhile, the good guys are sent to exile after being emotionally broken; they failed so epically. They were blind and self-absorbed, and rightfully end up in exile; you witness likeable characters despairing, breaking apart. For example, the final scene between Ani and Obi, which is- IMO- the most powerful scene in the saga.
Now, tell me. What storyline is darker, more complex, and less black-and-white-ish? Certainly not the OT.
Anakin is just a villain. And a lousy one at that. His "fall" was really just a slight step down. He was always a self absorbed, whiny psychopath. That he became so cool in just twenty years is mind numbingly ridiculous.
As for the OT, an actually bad person took a step to the light there, which to me was stronger than a bad guy getting a bit worse.
Originally posted by Master Crimzon
'Fart jokes' and 'stupid-dialogue' refer to the PT, ye know. I don't think I need to go more in-depth on it.
I'd still like to hear your opinions on the matter.
Originally posted by Master Crimzon
'Black-and-white' style? Right. The bad guys are bad. Really bad. The good guys are good. Really good. Even Han Solo, the only character who had any sort of anti-hero/ambiguous morality potential, ends up on the perfect note; all the heroes are perfect, in the end. They have no glaring flaws- and the villains are dead, and the little teddy bears can celebrate (I find the Ewoks to be far more annoying than Jar-Jar).
The Ewoks, I have to admit, were a trifle annoying. I mean, a tribe of Muppets took down the Galactic Empire?!? Yeah, sure.
Originally posted by Master Crimzon
The PT, meanwhile, ends with the bad guys ending up on a triumphant note, just as the good guys were crushed, deceived, massacred, and betrayed. The main focus of the PT- Anakin- cannot truly be perceived as either a villain or a hero. Is he a hero? Definetly not. A hero does not murder his friends and kill his wife. A villain? No. He has good intentions. He wants to bring order, peace, and security to the galaxy; in the end, he is a broken, crushed man. Meanwhile, the good guys are sent to exile after being emotionally broken; they failed so epically. They were blind and self-absorbed, and rightfully end up in exile; you witness likeable characters despairing, breaking apart. For example, the final scene between Ani and Obi, which is- IMO- the most powerful scene in the saga.Now, tell me. What storyline is darker, more complex, and less black-and-white-ish? Certainly not the OT.
To be honest, it was certainly darker to see Luke struggle with the revelation that Vader is his father, and try not to succumb to the Dark Side while being taunted by both Vader and Palpatine. Luke's anger alone, when Vader taunted him by suggesting that Leia might be a better choice as an Sith apprentice, is proof enough that this movie is dark.
Originally posted by Impediment
I'd still like to hear your opinions on the matter.
They're the only reasons why I think that TPM isn't an excellent movie. I'd rank it 5th best on my SW ratings.
AotC wasn't that childish. It was certainly darker than TPM; but it wasn't quite dark enough for me. Still, excellent movie, and one of the best 'dumb fun' movies ever. I don't consider ESB or RotS to be 'dumb fun', by the way.
Originally posted by Impediment
The Ewoks, I have to admit, were a trifle annoying. I mean, a tribe of Muppets took down the Galactic Empire?!? Yeah, sure.[B]
QFT. They're the reason why RotJ is my least favorite SW movie.
Originally posted by Impediment
[B]To be honest, it was certainly darker to see Luke struggle with the revelation that Vader is his father, and try not to succumb to the Dark Side while being taunted by both Vader and Palpatine. Luke's anger, alone, when Vader taunted him by suggesting that Leia might be a better choice is proof enough that this movie is dark.
It was certainly dark, but darker? What is darker? To see a likeable character dismember another likeable character, to see a wise, seemingly invincible character being defeated and broken, to see a loveable character being torn apart in front of our eyes? (Mentally, of course). The graphic burning of Anakin is the most painful scene to watch in the saga.
Seeing a character struggle with evil is dark. But seeing another character falling to evil and massacring the protagonists, killing his beloved wife, tearing apart emotionally his mentor, and proceeding to be mutiliated, burned in front of the camera, and then reconstructed gruesomely is darker. Far darker.
Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Well, it's your opinion, I guess. I only used 'I pity you' as a sort of a response to Impediment's own 'I pity you' statement.I like the old Yoda, obviously. But these days, I can barely look at him and not laugh. The new Yoda is, IMO, much better.
By the way, were you serious about The Clone Wars being the best SW movie? 😐
And Meistergen, it looks like you and I automatically have opposing views on movies. 😛
Naw, I'm not being serious at all in this thread, really. I've seen The Clone Wars once, and I'd say it's better than Attack Of The Clones, but by far is not the best Star Wars movie. I was just saying stuff like that to be an ass, and because I'm hella bored at work right now. And when I was saying for you to 'settle down' and stuff like that, it was just for show.
Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Impediment, I never claimed that CGI made a movie. But seriously. There's no denying that the PT had better effects; the CGI was convincing, realistic, breathtaking.
Anakin was done wrong, pure and simple. They should've done him as a non-whiny, troubled teenage slave that is generally a good guy and always plays the hero. However, he seems to always be too violent, and always wants to solve his problems with his fists. In every movie, the threat of the Sith becomes worse and worse. Every time, Anakin tries to put fear into his enemies more and more. At one point, Chancellor Palpatine convinces him that the bad have no reason to live, and Anakin kills Dooku(or Grievous). This causes the Jedi council to be weary with him, and Palpatine tells the boy that something needs to be done beyond arresting and catching the bad guys. So Anakin plans to take over the Jedi with renegade Cloe Troopers, and finds out that Palpatine is the Emperor. Soon he believes that Palpatine is truly right in his ways of trying to keep constant control, and becomes Darth Vader.
Then the Obi-Wan fight, Padme has kids, and so on.