Would you consider Barack Obama the first black president?

Originally posted by Francisco

My "homeboy" Obama would have to deal with the pointless Iraq war because your dumb ass Bush started in the first place. The action has been always in Pakistan the thing is Iraq's oil was so much of a temptation for the power hungry whores at the white house (yeah Cheney I'm talking about you)

The action has always been in Pakistan? Explain what that means.

And since we just went to Iraq for its oil can you give an explanation as to why the price of gas and oil are going up so much? Considering the fact that we now have this new vast supply of oil in Iraq, prices should be dropping, correct?

Originally posted by KidRock
And since we just went to Iraq for its oil can you give an explanation as to why the price of gas and oil are going up so much? Considering the fact that we now have this new vast supply of oil in Iraq, prices should be dropping, correct?

That's the reason we went in. It just happened to fail utterly.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
That's the reason we went in. It just happened to fail utterly.

So why are we not invading Venezuela right now? They have plenty of oil..same with Iran.

Originally posted by KidRock
The action has always been in Pakistan? Explain what that means.

AlQaida has been hiding there since the beginning. Everyone in the Intelligence community knew it BUT GWB and his bitches just wouldn't listen.
And yes they went into Iraq looking for oil and the only thing they managed to get was to turn it into a training camp for terrorists. 😠

Ok folks, we are completely off-topic here. Anything to contribute to the original idea?

Originally posted by KidRock
So why are we not invading Venezuela right now? They have plenty of oil..same with Iran.

Because Venezuela is selling you its oil already and you're already to the neck deep in shit. Chavez is all talk and no action. He talks shit about USA but he is their principal business partner.

Originally posted by Francisco
AlQaida has been hiding there since the beginning. Everyone in the Intelligence community knew it BUT GWB and his bitches just wouldn't listen.
And yes they went into Iraq looking for oil and the only thing they managed to get was to turn it into a training camp for terrorists. 😠

Source with a date pre-Iraq and Afghanistan wars saying Bin Laden was known to be in Pakistan?

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Ok folks, we are completely off-topic here. Anything to contribute to the original idea?

I think the original topic has been bled dry.

Might as well start a new one to discuss this stuff.

Originally posted by KidRock
Source with a date pre-Iraq and Afghanistan wars saying Bin Laden was known to be in Pakistan?

Originally posted by Francisco
Whoops! I made a George W Bush. For whatever reason I taught we were talking about Afganistan. 😆

Ok so you were wrong.

Originally posted by KidRock
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080119.neuro191/BNStory/specialScienceandHealth/home

Interesting, but note, it is with specific regard to neurosurgical centers and treatment.

People being exported aren't just being turned away because of general capacity issues, but with capacity issues in some of the most specific and highly sought after centers.

also, I'd like you to comment on how what is described in that article is:

"not be[ing] permitted certain medical procedures if the bureaucrats decide you are not worth it"

as you described before. This is actually the comment I want to discuss, as you wont make as scathing of a criticism of Canadian health care as I.

Originally posted by KidRock
I cant see too many people going to Canada for health care, or better yet can't see why they would.

umm, they do... whether you can believe it or not

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_tourism#Canada

http://www.findprivateclinics.ca/resources/general/medical-tourism.php

Originally posted by KidRock
You have ministers and members of parliament coming to America for health care..shows how much faith they put in the quality of it up there.

yes, strange that the elite and ruling class can use a system that has been set up to ensure their health and satisfaction.

I think that makes my point.

Originally posted by KidRock
Although oddly enough I have heard of Transsexuals going to Canada to receive sex change operations.

just because you are an intollorant biggot doesn't mean that....

wait, if canadian health care is so bad, and you can't understand why people would go to canada....

ah wait, you are talking out your ass again

Originally posted by KidRock
Lol..really? Barring someone running into the ER on fire I would assume someones brain bleeding would be quite life threatening, but I am not doctor.

anyone who comes into ER under their own power is prioritized less than those who cannot.

The better explanation here is not tha tER was packed, but that these people had specific conditions that required expertise that was overbooked. Had they needed less rarified surgery they would not have been shipped to the states.

also fails to mention that, depending on your province, you can be reimbursed for medical costs in America if you are a Canadian citizen

Originally posted by KidRock
I would say when you're waiting 22 months for an MRI, which could detect a brain tumor, is quite dangerous.

its much less than 22 months, but nobody disagrees with you

however, how is a waiting time:

"not be[ing] permitted certain medical procedures if the bureaucrats decide you are not worth it"

edit

Who decides and prioritizes who gets what surgery and when is it done and how is it paid for?

Originally posted by inimalist

umm, they do... whether you can believe it or not

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_tourism#Canada

http://www.findprivateclinics.ca/resources/general/medical-tourism.php

I find it odd that people can afford to travel to Canada to get a surgery done yet they cannot afford to get it done in America. I also wonder why people would go to Canada where it is backed up to get important surgery done, while Canada is sending people to the US to get these same surgeries performed.

Originally posted by inimalist

just because you are an intollorant biggot doesn't mean that....

wait, if canadian health care is so bad, and you can't understand why people would go to canada....

ah wait, you are talking out your ass again

Yeah, I am an intolerent bigot because I believe money should be spent on education and not cutting a dudes dick off or giving a woman a fake one, if you feel the opposite then good for you mr. morally superior.

Originally posted by inimalist

yes, strange that the elite and ruling class can use a system that has been set up to ensure their health and satisfaction.

I think that makes my point.

Sorry, but it is a myth that only the rich get health care in America. I am not 'elite' or a member of the ruling class yet I can get treatment just fine. It is called insurance, some people in America just haven't realized they should pay for health insurance before they go buy a new cell phone and pair of shoes.

Originally posted by inimalist

The better explanation here is not tha tER was packed, but that these people had specific conditions that required expertise that was overbooked. Had they needed less rarified surgery they would not have been shipped to the states.

also fails to mention that, depending on your province, you can be reimbursed for medical costs in America if you are a Canadian citizen

So how good can Canada's healthcare really be if it cant be self-sustaining and has to rely on the United States to carry its burden?

Originally posted by KidRock
Who decides and prioritizes who gets what surgery and when is it done and how is it paid for?

who/what/when would be identical to American practices. Doctors on staff at the ER prioritize people based on need.

most hospitals are private institutions, which send a bill to the gvt. what services are covered by the gvt are decided long in advance, so nobody is ever "deciding" if a person can get care. Some things are covered, others are not.

Deciding what is covered is much different. Very little of what would be deemed "elective" surgery in Canada is with regard to life saving medical concerns, so the government is not making any active choice in refusing certain people certain care.... I don't know where you would even get that from....

Originally posted by KidRock
I find it odd that people can afford to travel to Canada to get a surgery done yet they cannot afford to get it done in America. I also wonder why people would go to Canada where it is backed up to get important surgery done, while Canada is sending people to the US to get these same surgeries performed.

wow, you hit it so much on the head and totally missed it at the same time

yes, poor americans are going to canada to get treatment for regular everyday things, which canadians don't have to wait for, which cost 30-60% (from the stuff I cited previously) less. For people who live close to the border, it is cheeper than using the American system.

For Canadians, it is easier to get specific and specialist surgery in America, so they go there. It just happens that the majority of Canadians live very close to the american border.

Originally posted by KidRock
Sorry, but it is a myth that only the rich get health care in America. I am not 'elite' or a member of the ruling class yet I can get treatment just fine. It is called insurance, some people in America just haven't realized they should pay for health insurance before they go buy a new cell phone and pair of shoes.

I don't see how that is a response to what I said. I think we were in agreement, I'm not happy with the fact that my politicians use your health care system, and neither should you be.

You have a system that caters to the rich and the elite of the world rather than to its own people

and you can't really think poor people have no money by choice, especially when medical costs are the leading cause of bankruptcy in america....

Originally posted by KidRock
So how good can Canada's healthcare really be if it cant be self-sustaining and has to rely on the United States to carry its burden?

it outranks the american system every time they are compared...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Canada#Canadian_health_care_in_comparison

(and, just to be honest, so does the Canadian education system 😉 man our 23% tax rate sucks compared to the american one. I wish I was poor and suffering rather than a little bit poorer and taken care of, and knew my kids were taken care of)

yawn: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_and_American_health_care_systems_compared

Originally posted by inimalist

You have a system that caters to the rich and the elite of the world rather than to its own people

I really don't think its true because like I said: I am not rich or elite, yet I pay for my insurance and I get health care just fine. So I don't know how the system is just catering to that group of people.

Originally posted by inimalist

it outranks the american system every time they are compared...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Canada#Canadian_health_care_in_comparison

(and, just to be honest, so does the Canadian education system 😉 man our 23% tax rate sucks compared to the American one. I wish I was poor and suffering rather than a little bit poorer and taken care of, and knew my kids were taken care of)

Thats not what I mean and I am pretty sure you knew that. Canada has to rely on the United States for its health care system to work. I would like to see how well it would rank if all those over crowded hospitals couldn't ship their patients off to the US.

And you can enjoy that, I will stick with my quality health care and sleep well at night knowing if my brain was bleeding I wouldn't have to sit in a waiting room for 8 hours while someone is busy getting their Trans gender surgery done 😛

It is quite pointless to argue, you obviously enjoy the Socialism in Canada, I prefer Americas system..I doubt either one of us will change our minds.

Originally posted by KidRock
I really don't think its true because like I said: I am not rich or elite, yet I pay for my insurance and I get health care just fine. So I don't know how the system is just catering to that group of people.

so you are saying that people that have money are not better served by the American health care system than those without?

Originally posted by KidRock
Thats not what I mean and I am pretty sure you knew that. Canada has to rely on the United States for its health care system to work. I would like to see how well it would rank if all those over crowded hospitals couldn't ship their patients off to the US.

ok, i hear you

and ya, there are maybe 1000 people a year who would be worse off/dead if they couldn't go to America. I think you are overstating how large of a problem that is.

Many people who go to America do so for the convenience. 6 months for a hip operation is a long time to wait, but it isn't fatal.

And I don't think Canada's system is ranked according to its access to American doctors... That would, imho, make the whole concept redundant. Maybe it is something that even with such long wait times (which, at least in Ontario, are going down) Canada outranks the Americas?

Originally posted by KidRock
And you can enjoy that, I will stick with my quality health care and sleep well at night knowing if my brain was bleeding I wouldn't have to sit in a waiting room for 8 hours while someone is busy getting their Trans gender surgery done 😛

... I don't have to wait either, I can book it to the states 😉

and we are incorporating private clinics to address these issues

Originally posted by KidRock
It is quite pointless to argue, you obviously enjoy the Socialism in Canada, I prefer Americas system..I doubt either one of us will change our minds.

thats a rather ignorant statement

i'm very much against public and socialized health

Canadian health is not socialized, but government funded (huge difference)

also, as a capitalist, I would go to pains to point out that a private system doesn't have to end up like the American one.

Originally posted by inimalist
so you are saying that people that have money are not better served by the American health care system than those without?

If I make 40,000 a year and I pay my insurance premiums I will get taken care of at the hospital just as much as someone that makes 1,000,000 and pays their premiums. Is it a raw deal for homeless people and those making say 20,000 a year and have a family? Sure, America isnt perfect and there are better ways to go about getting health care to these people, I just don't think the Canadian system is the way.

Originally posted by inimalist

... I don't have to wait either, I can book it to the states 😉

and we are incorporating private clinics to address these issues

Good, next time I break my leg I will make the 5 hour drive up to Canada and get it fixed for free then, you can foot the bill for me. 😛 Is Montreal nice this time of year?

Originally posted by inimalist

thats a rather ignorant statement

i'm very much against public and socialized health

Canadian health is not socialized, but government funded (huge difference)

also, as a capitalist, I would go to pains to point out that a private system doesn't have to end up like the American one.

At least we agree both systems need changes.

Originally posted by KidRock
At least we agree both systems need changes.

Originally posted by chithappens
Any minority that claims to be COMPLETELY of their race is likely wrong (not as true for white U.S. citizens).

This completely depends on what you mean by "black."

I've collected one video on this so far:

MSNBC News - Multiracial in America - 5-29-2008
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24765917

Most of them are part Asian, but they all have Latino or African-black..

There are many people in places near Turkey who look like a European indian/aborigine (like the Native Americans) civilization, with red and blond hair, white skin, and blue eyes. They wear partially tribal-looking clothing, but more like an Irish-Jewish mix in Turkey.

There are also blond indians:

There are places where they live both modern and tribal life, like Indonesia, which is being modernized by the Dutch and Chinese.

The blond Africans (this one's a Berber: )

Not to mention albinos and rare Middle Easterners with blond and red hair.

If you've never seen rare blonds:

(Palestinian)

(Chinese girl in China)

These pictures make me uncomfortable. Maybe, it's because they look similar to the indians.

Some people are just saying Eskimos are light, now.

Seems this picture of a Berber would do the trick. Maybe, the color of Obama's skin is not a good issue alone in most all cases.

The question would be if you prefer like a white African over a traditional European, then.. or Eurasian like Russia/Norway. You wonder if the Australians are like the blond Africans, I feel, though.