Burning Legion vs Scourge

Originally posted by Burning thought
Your massively BIASed as well and you have no fact, youve not shown any fact, you have zero....zippo...admit youve been conquered already due to you have zilch to debate with.

What lore and what lich, show me? in lore it took a massively weakened DK at the same time as the LK being equelly weakened seconds to summon a powerful adult blue dragons bones back to the dead and who continues to live strong to this day.

To the liches a few powerless and manaless Eredar or Nethrezime would be less than most of the lesser demons from range, if their dead, their dead, can you show me proof it would be harder for them to be raised?

I ask for facts then you give up, then you say I wont see fact, youve shown me none thats why I dont see fact lol...

1. Nothing to debate with? One single infernal wiped out Malfurion, Tyrande, Krasus and an entire batalion of elves. A fel hound took out two adult blue dragons and a paladin and at the same time showed that magic and physical damage is ineffective against it. A few thousands of them would probably wipe out the majority of the Scourge.

More? The Fel Reaver is larger than any beings of the Scourge, made completely out of metal and fel energies and due to not being living would be able to resist all mental assaults, corruptions, curses and pain related effects.
A Doomguard should not even have to be explained, but would bring destruction in the form of meteor showers and by simply physically overpowering anything.
The dragons of the legion too would bring significant force obviously.

2. I do not remember the name of the first one, but Dar'Khan was another Lich that required the Orb of Ner'Zhul to manifest enough power to bring back anything greater than skeletons.

Seconds? HAH! You probably think he (Who is the most powerful of all Lich King's deathknights I should add) resurrected Sylvanas in seconds too, don't you?

I agree with Becci cause she is hot(assumin that is her in the avy). 😛

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
I agree with Becci cause she is hot(assumin that is her in the avy). 😛

oh

Awesome!

Originally posted by Becci
1. Nothing to debate with? One single infernal wiped out Malfurion, Tyrande, Krasus and an entire batalion of elves. A fel hound took out two adult blue dragons and a paladin and at the same time showed that magic and physical damage is ineffective against it. A few thousands of them would probably wipe out the majority of the Scourge.

More? The Fel Reaver is larger than any beings of the Scourge, made completely out of metal and fel energies and due to not being living would be able to resist all mental assaults, corruptions, curses and pain related effects.
A Doomguard should not even have to be explained, but would bring destruction in the form of meteor showers and by simply physically overpowering anything.
The dragons of the legion too would bring significant force obviously.

2. I do not remember the name of the first one, but Dar'Khan was another Lich that required the Orb of Ner'Zhul to manifest enough power to bring back anything greater than skeletons.

Seconds? HAH! You probably think he (Who is the most powerful of all Lich King's deathknights I should add) resurrected Sylvanas in seconds too, don't you?

1. What do you mean by "took out" their all alive....also quote from the book exactley what they did to the creatures, its shown in canon that so many of the legion fell anyway, armies clashed with eachother, if they were that overpowered the legion wouldnt have been repelled in so many wars.

Sure the Doomguard would, if a Destroyer hadnt already consumed his mana lol....and he wasnt weakened on the floor...then smothered etc etc same with Fel reavers, can you prove their metals strength, they would be frozen by Lich magic.

Frost wyrms and Destroyers combined would take out most of the legion and so would Thaddius.

2. did he try and fail to bring back anything greater? its been shown Arthas can bring back higher beings with ease and weakened.

Well sure, the game shows us what happened pretty clearly unless you missed it.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
I agree with Becci cause she is hot(assumin that is her in the avy). 😛

thats prob a reply that outlines perfectly most of the reason and only ideas that back up most of my opponents who will enter this thread. Simple foolery.

1. Alive, yes. Concious at that time? Not really. As Malfurion said in the book, it was obvious that the infernal was only interested in a "general charge" that they were rapidly proven ineffective against and ran over.

Did whever you read all that about also say that Archimonde wanted his armies to go into a slaughter? That he wanted to lose those battles? When the legion forces were falling and retreating, Archimonde said that it was all going according to plans. The front lines of the defenders had been wiped out at the cost of many lives, but once the front lines was gone, he sent in the infernals and three single infernals wiped out the rest of the elven batalions, conquering the region.

Thaddius is a leader. This is just with general units so he is not part of it. Frost Wyrms and Destroyers would go down against the Fel Hounds. How do I know this? Because in the Sunwell Triology did a Fel Hound take down a dragon with ease. Since it at the same time absorbed her magic, there was no breaking out.

2. Weakend or not, this is still Arthas we are talking about. "Power Eternal", "Lich King's most powerful death knight", "Champion of the Lich King"

Read the Sunwell Triology and you will see the truth.

Originally posted by Becci
1. Alive, yes. Concious at that time? Not really. As Malfurion said in the book, it was obvious that the infernal was only interested in a "general charge" that they were rapidly proven ineffective against and ran over.

Did whever you read all that about also say that Archimonde wanted his armies to go into a slaughter? That he wanted to lose those battles? When the legion forces were falling and retreating, Archimonde said that it was all going according to plans. The front lines of the defenders had been wiped out at the cost of many lives, but once the front lines was gone, he sent in the infernals and three single infernals wiped out the rest of the elven batalions, conquering the region.

Thaddius is a leader. This is just with general units so he is not part of it. Frost Wyrms and Destroyers would go down against the Fel Hounds. How do I know this? Because in the Sunwell Triology did a Fel Hound take down a dragon with ease. Since it at the same time absorbed her magic, there was no breaking out.

2. Weakend or not, this is still Arthas we are talking about. "Power Eternal", "Lich King's most powerful death knight", "Champion of the Lich King"

Read the Sunwell Triology and you will see the truth.

1. see exacltey as I imagined, they didnt do anything to a Infernal, major PIS, if they were face to face on a battlefield and infernals charged the Frostwyrms would just freeze/demolish them with frost.

But still his forces were being destroyed and Infernals vs some elven battlians? well dur,that makes some ounche of sense but against Scourge who can do something or heroes who should also be able to.

A Felhound is a short beast, it cannot fly can it? no.....so a dragon would destroy it from range with impunity and so would a Destroyer.

2. Yes, and he, along with the King have been weakened to incredible levels.

telling someone to constantly read something doesnt mean anything for your argument, you may as well concede or simply leave until you can show evidence or ive already seen it if I wish to do so.

Originally posted by Burning thought
thats prob a reply that outlines perfectly most of the reason and only ideas that back up most of my opponents who will enter this thread. Simple foolery.

but their not more powerful, half their troops would become useless (magic users as a whole) due to singlular troop types, their strength and bulk would also be useless due to cripple and other spells that make them weak.

Then youve got the fact Scourge grow after every being falls due to Necromancy, Legion beings joining the scourge as undead....every undead counterpart to the legion would be far more powerful than the original due to the nature of undeath. The scourge would be basically infinite once the bodies fall so numbers will mean little.

Well we might as well get this started then The Burning Legion ftw.

Originally posted by Burning thought
infact a million demons is the night elves estimate, theirs>yours

Originally posted by Burning thought
Can you prove either of them exceed liches? but for the record neither would be able to do anything, apart from die due to constant mana drain and explosion spams from Destroyers

Also, they are much, much older than the Lich and more experienced in the manipulation of magic. They are not as confined as Lich are, Lich magic deals with necromancy and ice. Eredar and Nathrezim (who invented Necromancy anyways) are much more versatile. Both their races have been dealing in and out of sinister magic ever since Sargeras found them.

As for the mana drain, they are able to do that too. Rhonin was attacked by a drain spell during War of the Ancients.
As for the destroyers, they can simply swarm doomguard (who are more individually powerful anyways and can fly) at the destroyers.

Originally posted by DarkC
Where'd you get this information?

Because there's much more Eredar/Nathrezim than there is Lich, as to have legions of sorcerers. Remember, the Legion warlocks are their very own race, not simply a necromantic creation from someone else.

Also, they are much, much older than the Lich and more experienced in the manipulation of magic. They are not as confined as Lich are, Lich magic deals with necromancy and ice. Eredar and Nathrezim (who invented Necromancy anyways) are much more versatile. Both their races have been dealing in and out of sinister magic ever since Sargeras found them.

As for the mana drain, they are able to do that too. Rhonin was attacked by a drain spell during War of the Ancients.
As for the destroyers, they can simply swarm doomguard (who are more individually powerful anyways and can fly) at the destroyers.

http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/story/chapter1.html#6

Sargeras gathered his vast Burning Legion and made his way towards the unsuspecting world of Azeroth. The Legion was comprised of a million screaming demons

The liches could be larger than a race since they are created by LK for the dark sorcerers in his armies:

Typically, the Lich King elevates only necromancers to lichdom, but rumors speak of the occasional mage or shaman who also attains this status. Some tales imply that a spellcaster with enough personal and magical strength can willingly turn himself into a lich, but these reports are unsubstaniated. Some powerful necromancers can temporarily transform themselves into a lich.MG 95-97 MM&M 69 MoM 142

This quote shows us that the vastness of the Liches can be high indeed, they are simply many empowered spellcasters changed by the LK, they could be just as numerous as most races due to the fact they ARE made out of most races, hell lots of diffrent races depending on Necromancer and undead.

More experianced perhaps but more powerful is not debated, its only the lords and most powerful Eredar of the legion, like Archimonde and Kiljaeden, Archimonde now gone that have shown such devastating powers such as city destruction but what have Regular Eredar actually shown, you cannot base your argument on their age entirely since LK is one of the most powerful beings Azeroth has ever seen yet hes what? how old, barely a youngling compared to some of the beings. Liches gain power straight from the Lich King, sometimes as gifts as the quote says who>Eredar.

Who are able to do it and at what range? and drain whom? the Destroyer needs neither mana or power at all to do any of his spells, not to mention destroyers are immmune to magic, so therefore we have a being who not only immune to maigc but who can dispel it, drain it and burn those using it, imagine an Eredar hit by a mana burn, considering their power and vast magic ability they would explode to pieces OR simply be badly wounded, and thats without the huge mana bursts in AOE around the destroyers killing other legion warriors in their hundreds that would mean Scourge would gain hundreds. And ofc this is just a few Destroyers, they were built by the ancients in Northrend and the Old god residing there much like the silithid, they would have hundreds down there, their numbers would equel legion soldiers who could be considered "heavy assault forces" in number.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Well we might as well get this started then The Burning Legion ftw.

indeed lets, so what are your points?

No points needed, all know that Burning Legion will win.

but you dont so the problem is nobody has points ,I do, so then I win since basically everyone has conceded.

Becci hasn't been online and I doubt DarkC is finished either...

what about that fascinating PM you sent me with why the Legion would lose care to post it...

Because from my point of view the Scourge has absolutely nothing that will assure them the win.

Well dont spam this thread if you dont plan on debating in it please.

Maybe I will later, but the information ive already given basically outlines what i said in that post as well. Destroyers and undead ftw

The Legion wins because they basically outshines the Scourge in every department.

The Destroyers sure are a nice intervention, which will help the Scourge not become slaughtered the moment instantly however the Destoyers faces major problems the greatest being the Doomguards and even though they can drain the mana from them, the Doomguards themselves are highly resistant to magical attacks (checking up on immunity), furthermore they can fly. And attack from the ground if needed.

On the ground we basically has the Ghouls and Zombies against the FelGuards and FelHounds, The Ghouls survice to say will be slaughtered and the Zombies will be ripped apart too.

Ofcause there is also the abomination however against a Pit Lord, I don't think I need to say more.

In the air we still lack the Frostwyrms however the Firewreck Dragon is sure to cause them major problems coupled with the Doomguards who is already up there. Also The fel Dragons will sure help to equal the air dominance.

On the Magical side, I find the Scourge highly outnumbered they have the Liches and Necromancers, The Legion has the Eredar (supreme sorcerer) Natherizim, Shivarra, Voidterror, and the numerous races that have joined the legion such as the Satyrs and Fel Elves also holds powerful mages.

Furthermore the Legion can rain infernals down on the battlefield, walking engines of destruction that when they are dead cannot be ressurrected by any means to be used for the Scourge (they are immune to magic too) which are sure to cause the Scourge major problems both because of the impact, there strength and there lacking corpse when they die.

Originally posted by Utrigita
The Legion wins because they basically outshines the Scourge in every department.

The Destroyers sure are a nice intervention, which will help the Scourge not become slaughtered the moment instantly however the Destoyers faces major problems the greatest being the Doomguards and even though they can drain the mana from them, the Doomguards themselves are highly resistant to magical attacks (checking up on immunity), furthermore they can fly. And attack from the ground if needed.

On the ground we basically has the Ghouls and Zombies against the FelGuards and FelHounds, The Ghouls survice to say will be slaughtered and the Zombies will be ripped apart too.

Ofcause there is also the abomination however against a Pit Lord, I don't think I need to say more.

In the air we still lack the Frostwyrms however the Firewreck Dragon is sure to cause them major problems coupled with the Doomguards who is already up there. Also The fel Dragons will sure help to equal the air dominance.

On the Magical side, I find the Scourge highly outnumbered they have the Liches and Necromancers, The Legion has the Eredar (supreme sorcerer) Natherizim, Shivarra, Voidterror, and the numerous races that have joined the legion such as the Satyrs and Fel Elves also holds powerful mages.

Furthermore the Legion can rain infernals down on the battlefield, walking engines of destruction that when they are dead cannot be ressurrected by any means to be used for the Scourge (they are immune to magic too) which are sure to cause the Scourge major problems both because of the impact, there strength and there lacking corpse when they die.

Show me how well a doomguard can fly, he seems a large humanoid flyer, humanoid flyers especially of large size are often cumbersome and bad flyers. And dont forget, Nerubians can web....

not at all, show me the strength of a felguard please and a hound, quotes from books with page refrences I will allow in this description, as well as I would like to know the situation of the battle and what was used agains the creatures in question. Ghouls and Zombies are not as weak as you claim, their undead which means their going to have to be completly butchered to keep down and excuse me? Abominations are part of this, they would smash a Felguard charging line down with their size, then we have the Flesh giants...even bigger and more powerful and machine mechanised Abominations...they would fallten them, and no..a pitlord even if not crippled would meet its match in a Flesh titan.

What about a Pitlord that cannot move? i.e, crippled......and weak...

No not really, firewreck dragons=lumps of flying wood, not a matrch at all againdt a undead Great dragon of frost blasting the legion from the air, show me what a fel dragon can do please, and dont forget the scourge have Gargoyles. Nerbuians again for anti air win.

Problem is, all these magic users are drained of mana...so they can do little more but sit and wait for their impending doom and thats if their not dead from mana burnings.

Well first none of that would happen, because the Eredar would need to summon=mana which they dont have remember....lets say the Destroyers dont get there before the last summonig which you need to show me the cast time of ofc.

We also have Scourge death knights, summoning all kinds of undead, recalling up to 6 each for moments but still useful, 6 undead pitlord recall ftw. Hell the amount of power at the scourges hands is enormous.

Then finally we have the overall view of the fact some of these scourge could have "will not die" animation power so they will need to be burned to cinders to stop, then we have the various diseases, which will spread throughout the entire legion as were shown how close they like to stand together.

And all the while every dead that is actually taken down can be raised, again and agan, undead Pitlords, Eredar, Felguards, hounds all swarming on their former masters. Also look through all teh Naxxramas encounters, see the huge amount of abilities the Scourge can bring to bear from just one necropolis:

http://www.wowwiki.com/Naxxramas

You realise Crylord locust swarms will eat the felguards alive, A lot of the magic users, from the widow wing can use nature damage (poor demons..ouch) of poison and all kinds of powers such as rain of fire. The queen spider of the entire wing can web up everyone, these are minions of the scourge, just like how Death knights etc are, so she is allowed in the battle.

Also Thaddius is not a commander, he can be used....he is simply a flesh Titan, nothing more..the fact hes a boss for the heroes means nothing.

now lets look at the plague wing:

Plague magics that can infect entire groups through spreading, cripple that all necromancers have, some can blink like Noth plaguebringer.
AOE mana burns, vast amounts of powers already.

Deathknight wing:

Gothik the Harvester can take souls, shadow bolt, teleport, summons/raises beings and units quickly from the dead, and multiplies them.

The four horsemen are also vast in abilities range but the main point of all these is to show the vast range of abilities at the finger tips of a single Ziggurat, now imagine the entire Scourge legions, almost all these characters are fair to use in a non commander debate because most of them are not even commanders, some like Thaddius are experiments of the abomination wing, some of the Necromancers are simply that.

So we can use named ones now?

Btw, BT.. What makes you think the Scourge will be able to do all that before the Legion will get the chance to do anything at all? You make it sound like the Legion will just stand and watch while they let the Scourge get close and start debuffing..

Also, I'd like to point out that infernals are immune to all magic, are physical powerhouses and they alone probably match the quantity of significant scourge opponents.. Frost Wyrms's breath is based on magic and as we all know, they cant attack them ((Seen in Warcraft 3)).. The flesh titans attacks are also magic, just like the majority of the Scourge..

The scourge will fail due to their quantities of magical beings.. I think the fel hounds and infernals would probably them alone almost be overkill.. The scourge has too much magic and too little significant physical powerhouses compared to the legion..

You also have to consider the fact that there are not many destroyers and frost wyrms.. While the infernals and fel hounds surpass thousands, the frost wyrms and destroyers are a few hundred at top.. they are far more rare, and entirely ineffective against the infernals and fel hounds, just like all other magical opponets..

Racial Mount Self-powered flight

http://www.wowwiki.com/Doomguard

Don't forget that they can still fly and attack from the ground.

A Felguard wields a massive warblade and a Hound has enough strength to bring down a Adult Dragon. The zombies are nothing more then animated corpses and the Ghouls are strong but not tough, the FelGuards are both have intelligence.

also please read

Felguard are the barbaric foot soldiers of the Burning Legion. While most other demons rely to some extent on magic and trickery, felguard eschew these subtleties, instead relying on sheer strength to overwhelm their foes. While under the command of a higher-ranking demon or a warlock, a felguard makes the perfect soldier. Each is a disciplined follower outside of combat, calm and patient. When commanded to fight, however, they become wild and merciless; an army of raging felguard is a terrifying sight

Generally read up on them http://www.wowwiki.com/Felguard they outlast Ghouls and Zombies by quiet a margin.

The Abominations will have there hands full with the infernals, and the Pitlords can dispel Magic, so cripple will not have a long effect on them.

I haven't, and may I once again add that you are underestimating the Firewreck Dragons, the Fel Dragons are undead Dragons much like the frost wyrms the only difference is that they are burning with Demonic energy, also Gargoyle vs Doomguard... As for the Nerubians I wouldn't recommend bringing the Doomguards down in the middle of the Battlefield where they really can lay waste to there surroundings.

If you destroyers are determind on draining all that mana, then they will explode, as simple as that.

Then it's a luck that both the Pitlords and Natherizim can summon infernals too.

As shown by Becci the amount of energy required to ressurrect a Pitlord would be enormous far beyond what any single Death Knight could accomplishe on his own, when a Lich couldn't ressurrect more then skeletons then a pitlord isn't likely.

What disease will spread through the Legion? And which Undead would have the power you speak of? The Liches? Not quiet when the animated corpse fall it is not very likely to raise again, and what does it even matter if they animate them if they are going to lose 3 everytime the legion loses one...

I said no leaders, BT what you are mentioning there are leaders, hence they are not useable in this fight. The death knights is, the Liches is, the Crypt Lords is, but individual leaders given name will not be used in this fight as I pointed relative earlier in this thread.

And no Nozdormu we cannot.