@Dark...
I guess I'm explaining this wrong. Let's try this again but I am going to use Hulk this time.
This version of Hulk is by far one of the worst Hulks ever written in any comic. Let's name this Hulk SW Hulk (Savage Wolverine Hulk)...
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-dccf644637932ae70dc772e13d41ce6a
If someone made a thread saying SW Hulk vs Hyperion. Based off ALL of the collective showings from this book, Hyperion would destroy him. Examples...
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-dccf644637932ae70dc772e13d41ce6a
Then this...
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-b99eae6969ebbb59e76ad3b20f810df3
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-1dba68cbe14c3515059dc7570ea3ebc2
Then this...
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-073e5eb7f154f647ece24849b5ee9d29
Then this...
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-4538412e74373fbd8d99e7d3541c007c
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-fe2cb43a43321958d733a58944c2b638
Let's not forget him getting taken out by a whale in the same comic. That's just some of the things. Let's say pages later, same comic, same writer, same Hulk, Bishop shows up and stalemate THIS version of Hulk in a fist cuff. I'm not going to say "Bishop is soooooo powerful, he stalemated SW Hulk in a fist fight". Looking at everything that happened in that book, Bishop going fist cuff with him isn't impressive. I'm not going to bring up Hulk lifting a sun, moving earth in a fist fight, reversing time because OBVIOUSLY SW Hulk sucked to the point that we know he wasn't at those levels. Replace Hulk with Superman then replace Doomsday with the Gorilla that got kicked by a human. I'm hoping you are getting this. SW Hulk is garbage because everything that happened in that story presented him as garbage. Any fights with this version of Hulk should eliminate his average and high showings because he was trash in the entire book. I would not say that is average Hulk and I'm hoping you don't think Doomsday fought average Superman.
Lol... why are you asking me this? Why are you not getting it? If SW Hulk fts wasn't so bad in Savage Wolverine, his fts from his previous books is usable since we have no other way of defining his power level. Since SW Hulk fts in Savage Wolverine was disgusting and we know that isn't close to Hulk average power level - any Hulk threads that's made that is called SW Hulk vs .... I'm using fts directly from THAT story since that Hulk is obviously different power level wise than your average Hulk. I wouldn't say SW Hulk would best Superman since his fts in that particular story just isn't good enough.
Again, if none of those bad showings happened, consistently throughout the book, Hulk showings before and after this is usable. Since the fts did happen and we know Hulk is far more formidable and far more powerful than what was displayed before and after this comic, sigh...
You mentioning ongoing damage Superman received throughout DOS, the damage shouldn't have done anything to the character anyways since he was shown to be more powerful, period. DOS Superman is the weakest Supes to date.
The gas station explosion, it shouldn't have done anything, not even budge him. This is the same guy who fought Darkseid and survived a Nuke, etc...
The pillars falling on him, nothing. It should have done absolutely nothing. Doomsday kicking pillars at him, it should have probably knocked him over but nothing.
Building blowing up on him should've done nothing. I don't care if all of this happened in one page, still nothing. So due to everything that happened during DOS this scratches out Superman average showings before DOS since we know that wasn't Superman anywhere close to his average, mid or high end power level.
If Sentry in WWH got knocked out by Daredevil, then got koed by a gun to the skull, got knocked out by a building falling on him and all of this happened during WWH, that is obviously not Sentry at his best or anywhere close to it. If he went on and stalemated Hulk after having repeated trash showings in THIS arc, if anything, it would drop Hulk stock as a combatant. I think if you don't get it after this, I'm ending this conversation because it's not going anywhere.
But weren't you using characters like Guy and Booster as well?
The Gamma Corps devolved WWH and snapped his neck. I am fully confident Savage Hulk has showings where he wouldn't be affected by the initial devolution.
Thus ,WWH < Savage.
WWH was unable to KO Beast in one hit, something I am confident Savage could do easily.
WWH needed 8 or so hits , whilst trying his hardest, to KO Logan. Something I am confident Savage could do in one hit.
Kitty was able to outreact him and phase him into the rock - I am sure Savage has better reaction feats than a normal human.
I can go on.
But let's use your logic.
Professor X, greatest mutant telepath, was locked down by the Stepford Cuckoos. That's a crappy showing for Professor X, no? Based on his highest feats.
Juggernaut was given more power than before by Cytorrak. We know what 8th Day Juggy could do - was this the same when he fought WWH? No. He was given a crappy showing.
Sentry. Ah, Sentry. His high end showings poop all over WWH Sentry's - we've seen what the right mindset does to him. Does this mean WWH Sentry was written down? A poor showing for Sentry?
This is your argument, summarised:
In DOS, Doomsday's opponents were written poorly - therefore Doomsday isn't that impressive. This includes Superman, whose high showings are way above what he showed in DOS.
Ok. My argument here:
In WWH, Hulk's opponents were written poorly - therefore WWH isn't that impressive. This includes Sentry, whose high showings are way above what he showed in WWH.
I used Guy because his shields were down and I used Booster Gold because he had no shields and Doomsday going all out did almost absolutely nothing. I didn't use Guy against Guy or Booster Gold against Booster Gold. Now if you have fts of them in their human form withstanding top tier hits, then I'm all game.
None of what you mentioned is low showings for WWH. Also, WWH took Beast out with a thunderclap along with the entire team. He said in the same comic you're referencing Beast, he literally told them he wasn't there to fight them. He hit Wolverine enough to stop him from fighting, not killing him. WWH went all out 1 time and that was against Sentry... mentioned on panel. Then you're using prep showings. There's nothing in WWH that goes against Hulk durability, strength, speed, his overall power and even if we run across one low showing, his highs in that book outweighs it. DOS "throughout the entire book. All of it". Did not display Superman or Doomsday power accurately, at all. The...entire...book.
I've learned one thing though, you don't think highly of Superman at all. Let's agree to this, Doomsday beat the most powerful version of Superman ever. I think this has come to an end. It was fun though Dark. If you see me in a thread giving SW Hulk wins over Colossus, I want you to clown me for it. You can have the last word.
Also, my argument isn't that Doomsday opponents were written poorly, Doomsday himself was written poorly as well.
Originally posted by carver9
When I say this, I want you to understand, I'm a superman fanatic
Originally posted by carver9I'm going with Carver's expertise on this topic. 👆
What are you lol for when its true, trust me, I know more about superman than anyone on this board and I collect ALL of his comics.
Originally posted by carver9
I used Guy because his shields were down and I used Booster Gold because he had no shields and Doomsday going all out did almost absolutely nothing. I didn't use Guy against Guy or Booster Gold against Booster Gold. Now if you have fts of them in their human form withstanding top tier hits, then I'm all game.
Guy's shields weren't down, unless you can prove it, when Doomsday met Booster he was still weak. Also, I showed multiple instances of humans withstanding top tier hits.
None of what you mentioned is low showings for WWH. Also, WWH took Beast out with a thunderclap along with the entire team. He said in the same comic you're referencing Beast, he literally told them he wasn't there to fight them. He hit Wolverine enough to stop him from fighting, not killing him.
Unless I am unable to put someone down in 1/2/3 hits.
WWH went all out 1 time and that was against Sentry... mentioned on panel.
Then you're using prep showings. There's nothing in WWH that goes against Hulk durability, strength, speed, his overall power and even if we run across one low showing, his highs in that book outweighs it. DOS "throughout the entire book. All of it". Did not display Superman or Doomsday power accurately, at all. The...entire...book.
She-Hulk, a..High Meta? Low Herald? Draws blood (also counts as a speed feat as she casually avoids his punch - she even lets Hulk throw the first punch):
Thing, a High Meta, busts his face open:
Strength:
Despite finding out Miek killed everyone, he is unable to one shot Miek - or even 2 shot. Or even 3...4....You get the point:
Speed:
Apart from the She-Hulk scan above...
Beast, a Low Meta, is too fast/agile for him:
Kitty Pryde outreacts him - note how far away she is from Cyclops when she manages to run over and save him despite WWH's wishes (Kitty has human level reflexes, no?):
You were laughing the other day at Brutus attacking Superman in his face, right? Here, a human, General Ross, manages to get his gun into WWH's eye and shoots it:
And I am just using the main WWH book and the X-men book. Nothing else.
There's no need to reply to any of that since those are not low showings. None of them are, lol. Then you're mentioning Superman talking about Doomsday punch being harder than anyone he's faced. This is the same guy who said Martian Manhunter is more powerful than him and you all ignored it. Also, Doomsday is not as fast as Flash, DOS already had his speed clocked, lol...
Anyways, WWH had great showings in his title which defined his power level. Superman throughout DOS power level was hindered and DOS Doomsday power level wasn't great as well, throughout the entire book. I've already proven this.
Also, Wolverine has withstood hits from Hulk, Red Hulk, Gladiator, Colossus, Juggernaut, Namor, I'm sure there is a list of top tiers I am forgetting. Also, Pr even mentioned that bringing up Wolverine, Cap and Batman is the exception. They will always perform better than most and it pains me to agree with him on anything but he is right.
Originally posted by carver9
There's no need to reply to any of that since those are not low showings. None of them are, lol. Then you're mentioning Superman talking about Doomsday punch being harder than anyone he's faced. This is the same guy who said Martian Manhunter is more powerful than him and you all ignored it. Also, Doomsday is not as fast as Flash, DOS already had his speed clocked, lol...
Anyways, WWH had great showings in his title which defined his power level. Superman throughout DOS power level was hindered and DOS Doomsday power level wasn't great as well, throughout the entire book. I've already proven this.
Also, Wolverine has withstood hits from Hulk, Red Hulk, Gladiator, Colossus, Juggernaut, Namor, I'm sure there is a list of top tiers I am forgetting. Also, Pr even mentioned that bringing up Wolverine, Cap and Batman is the exception. They will always perform better than most and it pains me to agree with him on anything but he is right.
And in my other thread, I didn't use Batman. I used Penguin, I used Dick Grayson, I used Blue Beetle, I used Daredevil - all hardly top tiers.
He punched holes completely through Miek. All of his punches was going through his entire body, so why is that a low showing? 🤔
Hulk wasn't trying to kill Scott. The difference between everything you've named is, Hulk wasn't trying whereas Doomsday was giving his all.
You did mention those people but the thing with you is, if Hulk went all out on Daredevil and failed to kill him, you WOULD use it against him. How do I know, your entire posting history consist of things like this. You're the same guy that mentioned the Avengers being weak and discredited Hulk fight against them because of ONE SHOWING they had in an Avengers book. ONE!!! You're the same guy who completely ignored this statement...
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/79470/2653896-incredible_hulks__627_005.jpg
And went with the majority. There is only one difference here on why you're defending this... 🙂
Originally posted by carver9
He punched holes completely through Miek. All of his punches was going through his entire body, so why is that a low showing? 🤔Hulk wasn't trying to kill Scott. The difference between everything you've named is, Hulk wasn't trying whereas Doomsday was giving his all.
You did mention those people but the thing with you is, if Hulk went all out on Daredevil and failed to kill him, you WOULD use it against him. How do I know, your entire posting history consist of things like this. You're the same guy that mentioned the Avengers being weak and discredited Hulk fight against them because of ONE SHOWING they had in an Avengers book. ONE!!! You're the same guy who completely ignored this statement...
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/79470/2653896-incredible_hulks__627_005.jpg
And went with the majority. There is only one difference here on why you're defending this... 🙂
He failed to even KO Miek - despite trying to kill him.
Beast was too fast for him when carrying someone on his back - despite him trying to end the fight.
She-Hulk dodged his punch - despite him trying to hit her.
He wasn't trying to kill Cyclops - this is a red herring statement from you. I never said WWH was trying to kill Cyclops. My point was that Kitty SAVED him from WWH, even though WWH didn't want her to (check the dialogue). IOW, Shadowcat, a human, crossed that distance, and saved Scott before WWH could do anything.
Why did WWH fight the X-men? Because they were in his way, but he wasn't there for a long drawn out fight - as per his statement. What does that tell you? That tells you he was trying to end things as quickly as possible.
Yet Beast was still able to dance around him, and Kitty was able to zoom across and rescue his targets.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He failed to even KO Miek - despite trying to kill him.Beast was too fast for him when carrying someone on his back - despite him trying to end the fight.
She-Hulk dodged his punch - despite him trying to hit her.
He wasn't trying to kill Cyclops - this is a red herring statement from you. I never said WWH was trying to kill Cyclops. My point was that Kitty SAVED him from WWH, even though WWH didn't want her to (check the dialogue). IOW, Shadowcat, a human, crossed that distance, and saved Scott before WWH could do anything.
Why did WWH fight the X-men? Because they were in his way, but he wasn't there for a long drawn out fight - as per his statement. What does that tell you? That tells you he was trying to end things as quickly as possible.
Yet Beast was still able to dance around him, and Kitty was able to zoom across and rescue his targets.
Punching holes through him is sufficient. Iirc, that showing also happened AFTER his fight with Sentry AAAANNNNNNDDD, how weak is Miek? Maybe you have some scans I am unaware of. I remember Pak saying Hulk Warbound members is as powerful as Savage Hulk but maybe I'm wrong here. I remember Greenscar punching Miek some distance, through a Mountain, completely through it, making the mountain erupt with lava and Miek tanking it with no issues but again, maybe you know something I don't know.
How long did WWH have Cyclops in the air and was he coming in with a punch before Kitty saved Scott? Him holding Scott in the air and Kitty saving him... 😕
Beast isn't too fast for him though...
That isn't the only time either. What they did to Hulk, Hulk allowed it.
Yes, they were in his way but he still wasn't their to one shot kill them. He isn't Doomsday.
Originally posted by carver9
Punching holes through him is sufficient. Iirc, that showing also happened AFTER his fight with Sentry AAAANNNNNNDDD, how weak is Miek? Maybe you have some scans I am unaware of. I remember Pak saying Hulk Warbound members is as powerful as Savage Hulk but maybe I'm wrong here. I remember Greenscar punching Miek some distance, through a Mountain, completely through it, making the mountain erupt with lava and Miek tanking it with no issues but again, maybe you know something I don't know.How long did WWH have Cyclops in the air and was he coming in with a punch before Kitty saved Scott? Him holding Scott in the air and Kitty saving him... 😕
Beast isn't too fast for him though...
That isn't the only time either. What they did to Hulk, Hulk allowed it.
Yes, they were in his way but he still wasn't their to one shot kill them. He isn't Doomsday.
So you are saying if you are holding something in your hand, and I am a few metres away - I can run over and take it out of your hand before you can react?
Because that's exactly what happened with WWH and Shadowcat.
As for Beast, I literally show you Beast dancing around WWH:
So if you want to show WWH tagging Beast - and I show Beast dancing around him whilst carrying someone else - that means that WWH is around Beast level in speed and reactions. He can tag Beast, and Beast can tag him - they are around the same level.
Good proof 👆
You say WWH allowed it? So he tried to grab Beast whilst he's carrying someone on his back, but allowed Beast to jump through his arms? Then allowed Beast to dance away from him? Then allowed X-23 to slash his eyes out? Then allowed human level Kitty to run over and take Scott from out of his hands, then said 'damn it girl, you're just making it worse'?
As for Miek....I thought writer interviews were inadmissible 😕
But you said Miek was punched through a mountain and tanked it with no issue? You are right - I know something you don't.
Behold, Miek 'tanking' it:
Literally one shot.
Then, Miek dies from some random falling rocks:
Even Cho has oneshot him - literally:
But WWH was unable to. Strange, that. Would Savage Hulk die from some random rocks falling on him? Can Cho oneshot Savage Hulk? Guess I have a higher opinion of Savage Hulk than you, Carv lol.
Of course, you neglected to mention this Miek was amped:
https://i.postimg.cc/cCqmXcvL/RCO022-1469445069.jpg
Tsk tsk. Naughty, naughty.
Originally posted by carver9
You're the same guy who completely ignored this statement...https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/79470/2653896-incredible_hulks__627_005.jpg
And went with the majority. There is only one difference here on why you're defending this... 🙂
By the by - I didn't ignore it. I specifically said that people who used that statement, only ever post one page from that comic, which splits the definition of Hercs in half.
The full definition also said:
MY explanation, which was sufficient to turn into a mod ruling, takes BOTH statements into account.
Magical beings radiate an energy which is measured in Hercs, named after the max energy a magical entity expended (i.e. gave off) in one blow.
That, ADDED to all the other info, was what gave the mod ruling in my favour.
