Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So you are saying if you are holding something in your hand, and I am a few metres away - I can run over and take it out of your hand before you can react?Because that's exactly what happened with WWH and Shadowcat.
As for Beast, I literally show you Beast dancing around WWH:
[b]So if you want to show WWH tagging Beast - and I show Beast dancing around him whilst carrying someone else - that means that WWH is around Beast level in speed and reactions. He can tag Beast, and Beast can tag him - they are around the same level.
Good proof 👆
You say WWH allowed it? So he tried to grab Beast whilst he's carrying someone on his back, but allowed Beast to jump through his arms? Then allowed Beast to dance away from him? Then allowed X-23 to slash his eyes out? Then allowed human level Kitty to run over and take Scott from out of his hands, then said 'damn it girl, you're just making it worse'?
As for Miek....I thought writer interviews were inadmissible 😕
But you said Miek was punched through a mountain and tanked it with no issue? You are right - I know something you don't.
Behold, Miek 'tanking' it:
Literally one shot.
Then, Miek dies from some random falling rocks:
Even Cho has oneshot him - literally:
But WWH was unable to. Strange, that. Would Savage Hulk die from some random rocks falling on him? Can Cho oneshot Savage Hulk? Guess I have a higher opinion of Savage Hulk than you, Carv lol.
Of course, you neglected to mention this Miek was amped:
https://i.postimg.cc/cCqmXcvL/RCO022-1469445069.jpg
Tsk tsk. Naughty, naughty. [/B]
I'm holding someone in my hand, about to punch it but I'm not swinging yet and someone comes and grab that person, then that isn't a speed ft or a reaction ft.
And I showed you Hulk easily dismissing him and he did it more than once and again, this is a holding back Hulk.
I'm saying that he wasn't trying to break Beast in half and he easily showed he can grab Wolverine, X23 and slap Beast whenever he wanted. 🙂
Also, Miek got holes punched clean through him by Hulk. Which one is more impressive, Darkseid knocking Superman out or Darkseid punching holes through Superman? Seems like an obvious answer to me.
Question, DOS Superman vs threads, name 2 durability fts for him. Let's use your method of debating. Doomsday beat Superman, show me some durability showings that make that impressive.
Originally posted by carver9
I'm holding someone in my hand, about to punch it but I'm not swinging yet and someone comes and grab that person, then that isn't a speed ft or a reaction ft.And I showed you Hulk easily dismissing him and he did it more than once and again, this is a holding back Hulk.
I'm saying that he wasn't trying to break Beast in half and he easily showed he can grab Wolverine, X23 and slap Beast whenever he wanted. 🙂
You're telling me someone running across from a few yards/meters away and grabbing something from my hand before I can pull my hand away ISN'T them out reacting me?
I agreed with the Beast showing. Sometimes he can hit Beast, sometimes he can't. Therefore, he's around Beast's level.
Just like Tyson in his prime is human level, same as me. We are both humans. Sometimes I can tag him, a lot of the times he can tag me - but Tyson isn't superhuman.
Sometimes Hulk can tag Beast, sometimes he can't. So around Beast level in speed. Good proof 👆
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You're telling me someone running across from a few yards/meters away and grabbing something from my hand before I can pull my hand away ISN'T them out reacting me?I agreed with the Beast showing. Sometimes he can hit Beast, sometimes he can't. Therefore, he's around Beast's level.
Just like Tyson in his prime is human level, same as me. We are both humans. Sometimes I can tag him, a lot of the times he can tag me - but Tyson isn't superhuman.
Sometimes Hulk can tag Beast, sometimes he can't. So around Beast level in speed. Good proof 👆
I'm telling you that if I'm holding something in my hand with my fist in the air NOT going for the swing and never intending to go for it (since we know Cyclops obviously can't take a punch from Hulk and he knows this as well) and you came over and grabbed whatever I was threatening to punch but not intending to punch, then that isn't a reaction ft. It happens all of the time in comics. She had enough time to say stop, run over and grab Scott. Using real world logic like Dark tend to use whenever it fits his debates, my human self can throw a punch before someone screamed out stop and after they finished screaming it out.
Sadly, this isn't Tyson vs whomever. It was said pages before that punch I showed you that they can't allow Hulk to hit them because he could kill them, even while crippled. If Beast is faster, he would've dodged that blow. He just wasn't "fast" enough to do it. Hulk doesn't need to dodge anything from any of the X-men, especially Beast.
Originally posted by carver9
I'm telling you that if I'm holding something in my hand with my fist in the air NOT going for the swing and never intending to go for it (since we know Cyclops obviously can't take a punch from Hulk and he knows this as well) and you came over and grabbed whatever I was threatening to punch but not intending to punch, then that isn't a reaction ft. It happens all of the time in comics. She had enough time to say stop, run over and grab Scott. Using real world logic like Dark tend to use whenever it fits his debates, my human self can throw a punch before someone screamed out stop and after they finished screaming it out.Sadly, this isn't Tyson vs whomever. It was said pages before that punch I showed you that they can't allow Hulk to hit them because he could kill them, even while crippled. If Beast is faster, he would've dodged that blow. He just wasn't "fast" enough to do it. Hulk doesn't need to dodge anything from any of the X-men, especially Beast.
Weren't.....weren't you the one the other day saying Brutus was able to get a whole sentence out, so that OBVIOUSLY meant a long period of time had passed? 😕
I see that you are ignoring my scans. SO I will crop them for you so you can see the panels I am talking about:
Beast leaping through Hulk's arms as Hulk tries to grab him WHILST CARRYING SOMEONE ON HIS BACK:
Beast getting Elixir to touch Hulk, and GETTING TO JUMP A GOOD DISTANCE AWAY:
I mean, what is your excuse? That Hulk 'allowed' it to happen? That the writers 'allowed' it to happen? Fact remains, Beast, whilst carrying someone, was too fast for WWH. You can show WWH tagging him, that's A-OK. All that shows is WWH and Beast are in the same ballpark.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Weren't.....weren't you the one the other day saying Brutus was able to get a whole sentence out, so that OBVIOUSLY meant a long period of time had passed? 😕I see that you are ignoring my scans. SO I will crop them for you so you can see the panels I am talking about:
Beast leaping through Hulk's arms as Hulk tries to grab him WHILST CARRYING SOMEONE ON HIS BACK:
Beast getting Elixir to touch Hulk, and GETTING TO JUMP A GOOD DISTANCE AWAY:
I mean, what is your excuse? That Hulk 'allowed' it to happen? That the writers 'allowed' it to happen? Fact remains, Beast, whilst carrying someone, was too fast for WWH. You can show WWH tagging him, [b]that's A-OK
. All that shows is WWH and Beast are in the same ballpark. [/B]
So you're saying he is slower than Beast and Kitty Pride but faster than X23 and Wolverine? OK, I can agree with that. Anyways, you've avoided all of my questions. I asked you to post some durability fts for DOS Superman that made Doomsday beating him impressive. I also asked a couple of other questions. Oh well!!! Thanks for the debate, Dark.
Originally posted by carver9
So you're saying he is slower than Beast and Kitty Pride but faster than X23 and Wolverine? OK, I can agree with that. Anyways, you've avoided all of my questions. I asked you to post some durability fts for DOS Superman that made Doomsday beating him impressive. I also asked a couple of other questions. Oh well!!! Thanks for the debate, Dark.
Lol.
I educated you on Guy.
I answered your Booster question.
I even showed you Blue Beetle Vs WW.
I answered why Superman getting knocked dizzy by DD was a thing. So I guess I didn't avoid anything.
My point this entire time is we don't focus solely on the storyline for the OPPONENTS. Otherwise we get into this silly trap lol.
X-23 isn't slower than WWH, nor is Wolverine. They're all the same ballpark. And no, don't scan dump with their greatest feats,, lmao. WWH is street level here, meta level. And that is using your logic.
Originally posted by Badabing
He has combat speed feats as well as intangibility feats. You're the one who's throwing things out the window and trying to shape things around your perceptions and what you "think". Superman has running, flight and combat speed feats. So much that it's part of his power set and within KMC rules with regards to fighting at peak. Ignoring facts that you don't like doesn't change a thing.
Jesus,lol. This was back in 2008, and here we are nearly 15 years later and Carver is still arguing the same thing
