Living Tribunal VS GEB

Originally posted by Mr Master
Actually it's not Marvel's creation,
it literally comes from a real world mathematician
who discovered transfinite sets of numbers,
it's widely recognized and accepted since 1881, even by Princeton University,
amongst a host of other prestigious establishments, and honorary mathematicians.

And yes, like all theorems there are those that disagree with his findings,
but that isn't stopping any educational facility
from using Calculus (another theorem) in their curriculums.

[b]Real world:

It's actually based on a real theorem from the real world created by Georg Cantor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantor%27s_theorem

Cantor's Theorem:

"The theorem is named for Georg Cantor, who first stated and proved it."

:

=====================================

As you can see, Marvel even uses Cantor's name on panel. [/B]

So, is Cantor's theorem accepted by some? Sure. However, comparing wild ideology like that, to something like calculus, is meh.

Originally posted by Galan007

If you scroll down to the very bottom of the wiki page you linked, you'll find a section titled - it's pretty interesting hearing other mathematicians' thoughts on what Cantor proposed.
Anyhow, if you then scroll down to the bottom of that page, you'll see a link titled - pretty sure you can guess what that link's about lol.

So, is Cantor's theorem accepted by some? Sure. However, comparing wild ideology like that, to something like calculus, is meh.

In any case, I already stated there are those that disagree.

And there are those that agree!

"The theorem is named for Georg Cantor, who first stated and proved it."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantor%27s_theorem

🙂 .. meh.

Any who, like I said, I did mention that already,

Originally posted by Mr Master

And yes,
like all theorems there are those that disagree with his findings,
but that isn't stopping any educational facility
from using Calculus (another theorem) in their curriculums.

That's your opinion,
which Princeton University does not agree with:

................................................................................................................

Georg Cantor - the prestigious PRINCETON University website:

"One of the greatest revolutions in mathematics occurred
when Georg Cantor (1845-1918)
promulgated his theory of transfinite sets."

http://press.princeton.edu/titles/4740.html

................................................................................................................

I also never called it a fact,
I have always maintained it was a theorem,
just like Calculus.

Wait, I just noticed something else brother G.

Originally posted by Galan007

Anyhow, if you then scroll down to the bottom of that page,
you'll see a link titled "Cantor was Wrong" -

pretty sure you can guess what that link's about lol.

First of all,
who the heck is Erik Max Francis to the honorary mathematical community?

No body!

The dude's a freakin CPU programmer. 😂

http://www.alcyone.com/max/info/personal.html

This Erik,
happens to have a webpage where other no bodies go to vent,
that's where you got your info from concerning "Cantor was wrong."

In fact,
these un-important opinions concerning Cantor's theorem
comes from nameless individuals that just sent their opinions in,
so he uploaded them to his webpage,
and now because of this,
Cantor is wrong?

😆

"Crankdot net?

http://www.crank.net/cantor.html

"I dedicate this essay to the two-dozen-odd people whose refutations of Cantor's diagonal argument have come to me either as referee or as editor in the last twenty years or so. Sadly these submissions were all quite unpublishable; I sent them back with what I hope were helpful comments."

..............................................................................

Is this a joke?

You almost had me there you sly dog. 😛

Anyhow, there are other (real) established mathematician's that disagree,
just like there are (real) established mathematician's that agree.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Is this a joke?

You almost had me there you sly dog. 😛

Anyhow, there are other (real) established mathematician's that disagree,
just like there are (real) established mathematician's that agree.

Anyhow, my only reasoning for bringing that up is, while Cantor's idea may be accepted by some [inc. Marvel comics], that certainly is not enough to make it infallible [and yes I already know you said it was his opinion, or whatever]. I just disagreed with calculus being compared to something like that.. srsly

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
Nobody is debating whether or not there can not exist greater infinities but not in this context.
And you seem to have missed my point, as I'm not actually talking about what each of them are encompassing, since it's obvious that one was the Ultimate Light, while the other was Ultimate Darkness.
I'm talking strictly about power, and how could adding something to God's already Ultimate Power increase his power even further ? That power is the ultimate degree of infinity, you can't surpass that.
Ultimate Light & Ultimate Darkness were opposites, shadow partners as it was put, Good and Evil. The story was all about their 'relationship' and balance between this forces. A representation of the ultimate 'ying and yang'. They were both absolute. They are locked in an eternal struggle, each of them being necessary.

You seem to be under the impression that the 'struggle', the conflict between them is based on power and thus you are under the impression that since they are 'equally powerfull' then that means that neither of them was 'supreme', the 'absolute, ultimate power'. Well, that's not the case here. Their conflict was purely abstract, philosophical. As Great Evil Beast put it "Is he you serve so high that there can be no posiblity of [b]respect between us ?".
And the result of that conflict, the summary is made by a metaphor used by Phantom Stranger : In the heart of darkness, a flower blossoms, enriching the shadows with its promise of hope .. In the fields of light, an adder coils, and the radiant tranquillity is lent savor by its sinister presence."

Their merging, each of them flowing into eachother, shouldn't be put in simple terms such as power + power = more power. It is a more complex one. Although, this might have gotten too complex for you to understand, so I'm just going to stop here with this, and hope that some comprehend what I'm saying 🙂

-------

Now, unto your 'Yahweh isn't supreme' arguments that you used in the 'disrespect thread'.

But even I was shaped by forces external to me

You speculate and assume that those forces are superior to Yahweh. I already responded to this point on other threads and presented my view on what these statement meant.

Those forces are actually Ultimate Light and Ultimate Darkness, and when they were 'running together' as it was put, a new being, Yahweh was formed. The fact that Yahweh even says to Lucifer 'You know what they are" further sustains my theory. How would Lucifer be aware of these other forces ? It's obviously that nobody from within Yahweh's creation has actually shaped Yahweh, and Lucifer hasn't actually met anybody in the void who could have done this. So of who are those forces that Lucifer is aware of that could have shaped Yahweh in what he was then ?

"The Dark, the Shadow Creature, came forth to challenge Heaven. The episode ended in .. perhaps a stalemate"

Yahweh saying that nobody can be his own maker ? That everybody was, at some point, shaped by something else ? I don't really need to respond to this, do I ?

Yahweh's lack of awarness when Elaine explains what Lucifer sent to him means that he is not Omniscient

Anybody who's actually read the story would know what Yahweh made it so that he would not be Omniscient. He wanted to experience randomness, he wanted to disconnect himself.

Yahweh wanting to exchange memories with Lucifer and become 2 new beings

Before Yahweh disconnected himself from Creation and gave up his Omniscience, it was clearly stated that everything that Lucifer did was part of the plan, that everything was foreseen. Only after he left creation, what Lucifer did was outside of what Yahweh told him to do, in the end, finally escaping the plan and leaving into the void. The rebellion, everything that happened prior to him leaving was because he made it so. He pointed out that everything he did had a point.

(This post took longer than I expected) [/B]

Nice post👆

GEB wins

Actually levels of infinity is accepted in supersymmetric string theory, as it's one of the key ideas.

As for Erik's ideas.

1. Neither Yin or Yang are absolute by themselves.
2. Omnipotence is based on the idea that you can accomplish anything without any struggle. Neither of them could take the other one out. Neither was omnipotent.
3. Your quantity fallacies is surpassed only by your quality of ignorance.
4. Yahweh, asked Lucifer to shape him. And you're contradicting yourself by saying that they didn't form a new being.
5. If he can't see alternate sollutions or predict the future he's not omniscient, it's that simple.

Originally posted by Astner
Actually levels of infinity is accepted in supersymmetric string theory, as it's one of the key ideas.

As for Erik's ideas.

1. Neither Yin or Yang are absolute by themselves.
2. Omnipotence is based on the idea that you can accomplish anything without any struggle. Neither of them could take the other one out. Neither was omnipotent.
3. Your quantity fallacies is surpassed only by your quality of ignorance.
4. Yahweh, asked Lucifer to shape him. And you're contradicting yourself by saying that they didn't form a new being.
5. If he can't see alternate sollutions or predict the future he's not omniscient, it's that simple.

If Omnipotent means you are absolute and can accomplish anything, then how come the classic beyonder couldn't simply will himself to know everything that he wanted to " know" about the marvel U?

Why are you insulting someone for a great post? Others thought it was great as well and yet you insult him because his post is in direct conflict with your ugly disrespect thread? Some great debator you are when you result to insults instead of actual rebuffs.

Originally posted by Galan007

A joke? No. T'was merely one of the first sites I came to - ergo, I posted it. There are many other sites out there if you look, but there's no reason to post 'em here.

There are many other sites out there if you look paying homage to Cantor's theorem,
and agreeing with it as well,
and from honorary mathematicians at that, and prestigious establishments.

I have about 10 saved,
aside from over 10 books published by prominent authors also hailing Cantor's theorem,
but you're right, there's no reason to post 'em here.

Originally posted by Galan007

Anyhow, my only reasoning for bringing that up is, while Cantor's idea may be accepted by some [inc. Marvel comics], that certainly is not enough to make it infallible [and yes I already know you said it was his opinion, or whatever]. I just disagreed with calculus being compared to something like that..

But for the record, Calculus is still a theorem in the end,
which is exactly what Cantor's theorem is.

But this is getting us off-topic.

I myself only brought it up
to point out that Marvel while it implements the theorem into their comics,
didn't create/prove the idea of levels of infinity.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Cool, I do respect your opinion always G, you know that. 🙂

But for the record, Calculus is still a theorem in the end,
which is exactly what Cantor's theorem is.

I understand what both of them are titled. However, one of them is a whole lot more accepted by all, then the other [which was my only problem with comparing them in the first place].

But that's neither here nor there. 😉

Originally posted by Mr Master
But this is getting us off-topic.

I myself only brought it up
to point out that Marvel while it implements the theorem into their comics,
didn't create/prove the idea of levels of infinity.

Originally posted by Galan007

I understand what both of them are titled - but one of them is a whole lot more accepted by all, then the other. That was my only problem with comparing them.

Originally posted by Galan007

But that's neither here nor there.

Cool beans. 🙂

👆

guys, please keep the personal stuff out of this, thx...

Originally posted by Astner
Actually levels of infinity is accepted in supersymmetric string theory, as it's one of the key ideas.

As for Erik's ideas.

1. Neither Yin or Yang are absolute by themselves.
2. Omnipotence is based on the idea that you can accomplish anything without any struggle. Neither of them could take the other one out. Neither was omnipotent.
3. Your quantity fallacies is surpassed only by your quality of ignorance.
4. Yahweh, asked Lucifer to shape him. And you're contradicting yourself by saying that they didn't form a new being.
5. If he can't see alternate sollutions or predict the future he's not omniscient, it's that simple.

About #4 God never asked Lucifer to shape him, he asked him to return to HIM and in the next creation they would be reborn, God would be at a higher level and understanding Lucifer more and mainly because he was unwilling to leave even Lucifer in the void and lost forever. Lucifer said no and is willing to STAY in the void until a creation is born in the nothingness and it will be dependent on him which will never happen.

Good points are being brought up, but getting back to what the thread was originally about...I'd definately have to go with TGEB. If Protege' was able to do what he did to LT, then just imagine what TGEB could do. Not putting down LT or anything, but looks like Scathan doesn't have his back this time.
-And even if he DID, it probably wouldn't change the outcome. TGEB is just too damn powerful.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Not in comics. 131

Originally posted by six6six
Good points are being brought up, but getting back to what the thread was originally about...I'd definately have to go with TGEB. If Protege' was able to do what he did to LT, then just imagine what TGEB could do. Not putting down LT or anything, but looks like Scathan doesn't have his back this time.
-And even if he DID, it probably wouldn't change the outcome. TGEB is just too damn powerful.

I have my doubt if Scathan can even put his 'Energy Muzzle' on TGEB.
That is, if he can penetrate the totality of darkness that is TGEB.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Why are you insulting someone for a great post? Others thought it was great as well and yet you insult him because his post is in direct conflict with your ugly disrespect thread? Some great debator you are when you result to insults instead of actual rebuffs.

Don't bother. Seriously 🙂

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
Nobody is debating whether or not there can not exist greater infinities but not in this context.
And you seem to have missed my point, as I'm not actually talking about what each of them are encompassing, since it's obvious that one was the Ultimate Light, while the other was Ultimate Darkness.
I'm talking strictly about power, and how could adding something to God's already Ultimate Power increase his power even further ? That power is the ultimate degree of infinity, you can't surpass that.
Ultimate Light & Ultimate Darkness were opposites, shadow partners as it was put, Good and Evil. The story was all about their 'relationship' and balance between this forces. A representation of the ultimate 'ying and yang'. They were both absolute. They are locked in an eternal struggle, each of them being necessary.

You seem to be under the impression that the 'struggle', the conflict between them is based on power and thus you are under the impression that since they are 'equally powerfull' then that means that neither of them was 'supreme', the 'absolute, ultimate power'. Well, that's not the case here. Their conflict was purely abstract, philosophical. As Great Evil Beast put it "Is he you serve so high that there can be no posiblity of [b]respect between us ?".
And the result of that conflict, the summary is made by a metaphor used by Phantom Stranger : In the heart of darkness, a flower blossoms, enriching the shadows with its promise of hope .. In the fields of light, an adder coils, and the radiant tranquillity is lent savor by its sinister presence."

Their merging, each of them flowing into eachother, shouldn't be put in simple terms such as power + power = more power. It is a more complex one. Although, this might have gotten too complex for you to understand, so I'm just going to stop here with this, and hope that some comprehend what I'm saying 🙂

-------

Now, unto your 'Yahweh isn't supreme' arguments that you used in the 'disrespect thread'.

But even I was shaped by forces external to me

You speculate and assume that those forces are superior to Yahweh. I already responded to this point on other threads and presented my view on what these statement meant.

Those forces are actually Ultimate Light and Ultimate Darkness, and when they were 'running together' as it was put, a new being, Yahweh was formed. The fact that Yahweh even says to Lucifer 'You know what they are" further sustains my theory. How would Lucifer be aware of these other forces ? It's obviously that nobody from within Yahweh's creation has actually shaped Yahweh, and Lucifer hasn't actually met anybody in the void who could have done this. So of who are those forces that Lucifer is aware of that could have shaped Yahweh in what he was then ?

"The Dark, the Shadow Creature, came forth to challenge Heaven. The episode ended in .. perhaps a stalemate"

Yahweh saying that nobody can be his own maker ? That everybody was, at some point, shaped by something else ? I don't really need to respond to this, do I ?

Yahweh's lack of awarness when Elaine explains what Lucifer sent to him means that he is not Omniscient

Anybody who's actually read the story would know what Yahweh made it so that he would not be Omniscient. He wanted to experience randomness, he wanted to disconnect himself.

Yahweh wanting to exchange memories with Lucifer and become 2 new beings

Before Yahweh disconnected himself from Creation and gave up his Omniscience, it was clearly stated that everything that Lucifer did was part of the plan, that everything was foreseen. Only after he left creation, what Lucifer did was outside of what Yahweh told him to do, in the end, finally escaping the plan and leaving into the void. The rebellion, everything that happened prior to him leaving was because he made it so. He pointed out that everything he did had a point.

(This post took longer than I expected) [/B]

THUMBS UP! 👆

Any more arguments?

Originally posted by Philosophía
Now, unto your 'Yahweh isn't supreme' arguments that you used in the 'disrespect thread'.

But even [b]I was shaped by forces external to me

You speculate and assume that those forces are superior to Yahweh. I already responded to this point on other threads and presented my view on what these statement meant.

Those forces are actually Ultimate Light and Ultimate Darkness, and when they were 'running together' as it was put, a new being, Yahweh was formed. The fact that Yahweh even says to Lucifer 'You know what they are" further sustains my theory. How would Lucifer be aware of these other forces ? It's obviously that nobody from within Yahweh's creation has actually shaped Yahweh, and Lucifer hasn't actually met anybody in the void who could have done this. So of who are those forces that Lucifer is aware of that could have shaped Yahweh in what he was then ?

"The Dark, the Shadow Creature, came forth to challenge Heaven. The episode ended in .. perhaps a stalemate"

Yahweh saying that nobody can be his own maker ? That everybody was, at some point, shaped by something else ? I don't really need to respond to this, do I ? [/B]