Fury, durability gauntlet

Originally posted by King Kandy

Spiderman's punch=Hulk's punch?

They both break bones after all.

Originally posted by Air Legend

But just because the Fury resisted the destruction of his universe doesn't mean it's immune to the powers of the UN. From what was provided, the universe was the target, not the Fury. I find this situation similar to Michael's explosion. When Michael dies, the Demiurgos power is released which goes on to overwhelm all of creation. However, since the power is not solely intended or directed at Lucifer, it has no affect on him. But when Michael specifically target's Lucifer, his power invokes damage.

A Marvel example would be Beyonder and MM. When Beyonder directly attacked MM, he beat him. However, when his power was released from the machine, illustrations showed the power wiping out the entire Marvel Universe. However, MM (this time not the direct target) was able to redirect that power and remain unharmed this time around.

Originally posted by Air Legend

In short, just because Fury withstood the universal nullification doesn't necessarily mean the Fury can withstand a direct, specific attack from the Ultimate Nullifier.

Yet, just cause it wasn't specifically targeted at Fury,
you believe it made a difference?

So Fury got lucky?

The CN overlooked the Fury?

Of course not,
as the on panel evidence and the bio confirms,
the Fury withstood the CN, simple and plain.

On top of that,
the CN doesn't target anything specifically, it simply doesn't work like the UN.

The CN contains the actual life-force of the Universes of Marvel in tiny crystals,
the CN crushes the crystals,
and said corresponding Universe (and everything in it) is nullified.

In Marvel's history, of all the potential targets,
only the Fury, 616 MJJ, and the IG,
have been known to be unaffected by nullification energies.

Originally posted by Mr Master
But they don't both break mountains. 🙂

This is inconsequential to the events concerning the Fury.

Although everything else (including Jaspers 238, including an aspect of Eternity)
and the rest of the 238 Universal Concepts,
including all other matter/energy and anything else I left out,
got [b]erased from existence.

Yet, just cause it wasn't specifically targeted at Fury,
you believe it made a difference?

So Fury got lucky?

The CN overlooked the Fury?

Of course not,
as the on panel evidence and the bio confirms,
the Fury withstood the CN, simple and plain.

On top of that,
the CN doesn't target anything specifically, it simply doesn't work like the UN.

The CN contains the actual life-force of the Universes of Marvel in tiny crystals,
the CN crushes the crystals,
and said corresponding Universe (and everything in it) is nullified.

In Marvel's history, of all the potential targets,
only the Fury, 616 MJJ, and the IG,
have been known to be unaffected by nullification energies. [/B]

Originally posted by iceman24567

I have a question for you. Do you think The Fury could take Michael in a fight?

But I can clear up facts concerning the Marvel aspect of the thread.

That's all I'm debating here.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Cross-company battles, Mr M has no comment on most, this is one of em.

But I can clear up facts concerning the Marvel aspect of the thread.

That's all I'm debating here.

Originally posted by Mr Master
This is inconsequential to the events concerning the Fury.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Although everything else (including Jaspers 238, including an aspect of Eternity) and the rest of the 238 Universal Concepts, including all other matter/energy and anything else I left out, got [b]erased from existence.[/B]

And I guess the LT died as well since it exists everywhere simultaneously?

Originally posted by Mr Master
Yet, just cause it wasn't specifically targeted at Fury, you believe it made a difference?

Originally posted by Mr Master
So Fury got lucky?

Originally posted by Mr Master
The CN overlooked the Fury?

Originally posted by Mr Master
Of course not, as the on panel evidence and the bio confirms,
the Fury withstood the CN, simple and plain.

Originally posted by Mr Master
On top of that, the CN doesn't target anything specifically, it simply doesn't work like the UN.

Originally posted by Mr Master
The CN contains the actual life-force of the Universes of Marvel in tiny crystals, the CN crushes the crystals, and said corresponding Universe (and everything in it) [b]is nullified.[/B]

Originally posted by Mr Master
In Marvel's history, of all the potential targets, only the Fury, 616 MJJ, and the IG, have been known to be unaffected by nullification energies.

Originally posted by iceman24567

Ok who do you think has the more impressive battle feats?

But the Fury stalemated and overcame a Jaspers,
who was more powerful than Omniversal matrix/Merlin,
who would've became God of the Omniverse had it not been for the Fury.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I'm not sure, don't know much about the DC side.

But the Fury stalemated and overcame a Jaspers,
who was more powerful than Omniversal matrix/Merlin,
who would've became God of the Omniverse had it not been for the Fury.

Originally posted by iceman24567
The question is does Michael have a weakness the Fury can exploit? Not to sure of the answer maybe Air Legend can answer that question.

Originally posted by Air Legend
His wings. At least in the Lucifer series. He looked much more impressive in his DCU battle with the Spectre IMO.

Originally posted by Air Legend

No, same concept. Direct, specific attacks cause more damage.

CN erases everything in a Universe evenly,
including it's Universal concepts.

Only durability that can withstand it, survives.

To date,
ONLY the IG, Jaspers 616 and the Fury can withstand Universal nullification energies.

Originally posted by Air Legend

And I guess the LT died as well since it exists everywhere simultaneously?

Originally posted by Air Legend

Yes.

To date,
ONLY the IG, Jaspers 616 and the Fury can withstand Universal nullification energies.

Originally posted by Air Legend

Not what I was trying to convey. You would know this if you bothered acknowledging my examples rather than simply dismissing them as inconsequential.

Imo, concerning Fury, they were inconsequential.

But if you wish:

1. Michael's power doesn't affect Lucy if he's not the target,
Michael's power affects Lucy if he's the target.

The CN erases from existence the Universe, (Time/Space/Matter)
and anything/everything contained within said Universe it nullifies.

No if, ands or buts.

So, imo, this Michael ie. is inconsequential to Fury and the CN case.

....................................................................................

2

MM was hurt in his initial battle with Beyonder due to direct conflict,
MM was not hurt at the end after the flash,
because he re-directed Beyonder's power.

I later learned that Beyonder actually faked his death,
and never intended to erase the Multiverse at the end,
in fact,
I always thought Beyonder had turned himself into a helpless baby,
but in fact, Beyonder was again pulling the strings.

The white flash was allowed by the Beyonder to be re-directed by Owen,
Beyonder wanted this, cause he was tired of the Multiverse and wanted to return home,
this method he chose was obviously for the dramatic affect on Shooter's part.

So once again, at-least in this particular ie. of yours,
I don't see any relation to the Fury/CN case.

Originally posted by Air Legend

Never said the Fury didn't withstand the CN.

That's one more reason we shouldn't quickly dismiss the UN as a threat to the Fury.

The UN has to literally blast a target or a Universe or a Multiverse.

The CN can erase a Universe from across the Omniverse,
by simply placing a Crystal in it:

"This Crystal embodies the LifeForce of your Home Dimension,
by breaking it, that Entire Portion of the Omniverse CEASES TO EXIST"

Originally posted by Air Legend

Including the Living Tribunal?

Same silliness can be said about the Universes the UN has nullified.

Originally posted by Air Legend

OK, but like I said before, a direct, specific UN attack could release enough power to destroy the Fury (faster than the Fury can adapt to the attack, that is).

Same exact thing both the CN and UN do,
that is, nullify Time/Space/Matter, to the same degree,
that is, to non-existence.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Again, doesn't concern the CN. [B]CN erases everything in a Universe evenly, including it's Universal concepts.
Only durability that can withstand it, survives. To date, ONLY the IG, Jaspers 616 and the Fury can withstand Universal nullification energies.[/B]

Originally posted by Mr Master
Heh, let's stay serious now.

So the CN erased mere aspects of the greater concepts like Eternity, Death, etc...big deal. It's reality 238, not 616.

Originally posted by Mr Master
So this sounds like you believe the Fury got lucky, or the Fury was overlooked by the CN, although the CN has no preferences, if you're in the Universe, you will be erased, lest your durability can handle it.

Originally posted by Mr Master
To date, ONLY the IG, Jaspers 616 and the Fury can withstand Universal nullification energies.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I did acknowledge them, I read them, considered them and came to a conclusion.Imo, concerning Fury, they were inconsequential.

But if you wish:

[b]1. Michael's power doesn't affect Lucy if he's not the target,
Michael's power affects Lucy if he's the target.

The CN erases from existence the Universe, (Time/Space/Matter)
and anything/everything contained within said Universe it nullifies.

No if, ands or buts.
Untrue. The Fury. 😐

So, imo, this Michael ie. is inconsequential to Fury and the CN case.[/B]

It's still applies because we have entities (Lucifer and Fury) that can survive the power of universal/creation destruction that supposedly destroys anything/everything in said creation(Demiurgos power/CN).
....................................................................................

Originally posted by Mr Master
2

MM was hurt in his initial battle with Beyonder due to direct conflict,
MM was not hurt at the end after the flash,
because he re-directed Beyonder's power.

I later learned that Beyonder actually faked his death,
and never intended to erase the Multiverse at the end,
in fact, I always thought Beyonder had turned himself into a helpless baby, but in fact, Beyonder was again pulling the strings.

The white flash was allowed by the Beyonder to be re-directed by Owen,
Beyonder wanted this, cause he was tired of the Multiverse and wanted to return home, this method he chose was obviously for the dramatic affect on Shooter's part.

So once again, at-least in this particular ie. of yours,
I don't see any relation to the Fury/CN case.

I was talking about before the retcon. In other words, I was comparing the Fury scenario to the the end of Secret Wars II. The analogy applies when looking at it through a pre-retcon perspective.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Not imo, they just nullify their tagets differently.
The UN has to literally blast a target or a Universe or a Multiverse.
The CN can erase a Universe from across the Omniverse,
by simply placing a Crystal in it:

"This Crystal embodies the LifeForce of your Home Dimension,
by breaking it, that Entire Portion of the Omniverse CEASES TO EXIST"

Originally posted by Mr Master
Come on, Al, only serious posts will be acknowledged.
Same silliness can be said about the Universes the UN has nullified.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Unfortunately on panel and confirmed in Marvel Handbooks, the Fury can withstand and survive temporal/spacial nullification energies.

Same exact thing both the CN and UN do, that is, nullify Time/Space/Matter, to the same degree, that is, to non-existence.

Show me the UN unsuccessfully erasing something from existence and I'll concede.

Stops at 3

Wasn't fury in pretty bad shape when he arrived to the 616 reality from the 238? Was the damage surely placed on the crossing of the dimensionel Barriers ore a part of it placed on the Nullifier???

Originally posted by Air Legend

So the CN erased mere aspects of the greater concepts like Eternity, Death, etc...big deal. It's reality 238, not 616.

Originally posted by Air Legend

It's still applies because we have entities (Lucifer and Fury) that can survive the power of universal/creation destruction that supposedly destroys anything/everything in said creation(Demiurgos power/CN).

If you're in the Universe,
the CN erases existence regardless of whether your the target or not.

Originally posted by Air Legend

I was talking about before the retcon. In other words, I was comparing the Fury scenario to the the end of Secret Wars II. The analogy applies when looking at it through a pre-retcon perspective.

I realized later this did make more sense,
as Owen should not have been able to literally block Beyonder's full power.

Owen did shield himself the first time around in their first fight,
but that as you know, nearly killed Owen.

Originally posted by Air Legend

This brings me back to my previous points. The CN, which is supposed to nullify everything/anything out of existence, failed to take out the Fury. The UN hasn't failed at erasing something out of existence (I know it got redirected by the IG). So the UN, displaying more power and thoroughness than the CN, can potentially destroy the Fury.

Originally posted by Air Legend

They both do the same thing, but not to the same degree. CN failed at nullifying the Fury, while the UN hasn't failed. I think it's called the ULTIMATE Nullifier for a reason.

Show me the UN unsuccessfully erasing something from existence

and I'll concede.

The UN fails to completely erase, what did you call it?

oh yea,

"a mere aspect of Eternity"

=====================================

The Dr Strange, Silver Surfer and Phoenix of this Universe (Reality- 82432)
were spared Nullification.

When Strange returns to this Universe that was erased,

he finds the Ultimate Nullifier as the Culprit:

...................................................................................

They were expelled from that Universe before it's demise.

It was the Universe Korvac eased with the UN.

...................................................................................

But actually,

this diverged reality's Universal spirit (aspect of Eternity) still lives:

=====================================

Awaiting concession. 🙂

Originally posted by Utrigita

Wasn't fury in pretty bad shape when he arrived to the 616 reality from the 238?
Was the damage surely placed on the crossing of the dimensionel Barriers
ore a part of it placed on the Nullifier???

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=486821&pagenumber=1

Fury got all messed from its trip through UniverseS:
(it couldn't teleport at this time, so it had to travel the old fashion way,
it must've been battered through out the entire trip with lord knows what)

"It Arrived an Hour ago"

"It comes from Another Universe ...
it's Journey was Not pleasant,
it no longer has Limbs"

Wanda's Chaos Wave

Originally posted by Mr Master
Actually the life-force of the entire Omniverse is contained within said crystals, that goes for 616 too.

You said Lucy was not hurt when he was not the target,
and he was hurt was he was the target.
If you're in the Universe, the CN erases existence regardless of whether your the target or not.

Again, the analogy still applies. The CN is supposed to erase everything from existence regardless of the target. It failed to erase the Fury. Michael's power is supposed to wipe everything from existence. It didn't erase Lucifer.

Molecule Man never actually truly blocked Beyonder's power, that was my mistake, Beyonder's power was re-directed before it could wipe out everything. I realized later this did make more sense, as Owen should not have been able to literally block Beyonder's full power. Owen did shield himself the first time around in their first fight, but that as you know, nearly killed Owen.

That was an incomplete IG, and the UN energies were completely dominated.
You'll concede?
The UN fails to completely erase, what did you call it?
oh yea, "a mere aspect of Eternity"
The Dr Strange, Silver Surfer and Phoenix of this Universe (Reality- 82432) were spared Nullification.
When Strange returns to this Universe that was erased, he finds the Ultimate Nullifier as the Culprit:

...................................................................................

They were expelled from that Universe before it's demise.
It was the Universe Korvac eased with the UN.

...................................................................................

But actually, this diverged reality's Universal spirit (aspect of Eternity) still lives:

=====================================

Awaiting concession. 🙂 [/B]

Originally posted by Air Legend

Again, the analogy still applies. The CN is supposed to erase everything from existence regardless of the target. It failed to erase the Fury. Michael's power is supposed to wipe everything from existence. It didn't erase Lucifer.

But in Marvel comics,
the CN transforms Space into Un-Space (absolute nothingness/ the Void)
nothing remains.

The UN does the same thing, but evidently,
the spirit of concepts (at-least Eternity's survive, though technically he's dead.

Fury's durability withstood (unharmed) that which utterly erases Time/Space/Matter,
completely,
in fact, it becomes the opposite of Time/Space/Matter ... it becomes absolute nothingness,
not even conceptual spirits survive,
then again how can it, when it the CN strikes at it's very heart.

Don't know what else to say.

Originally posted by Air Legend

Exactly. When Beyonder attacked MM directly, MM payed the price. But when Beyonder's omni-directional power was released without him willing it, MM was able to redirect the power. Had it been the Beyonder himself invoking his power in a concentrated manner with MM being the specific target (I'm not talking about reluctantly and blindly shooting a blast at MM like he did in the story), MM wouldn't have been able to do a thing about it.

Owen was so weak after battling the Beyonder, (the first time)
that he barely had enough power to help Silver Surfer repair the Earth:

.......................................................................................

Now if Owen Reece,
(most powerful being in the Multiverse, control over all time/space/matter)
couldn't even repair a single Planet on his own,
are we really going to think he blocked Beyonder's full exaggerated power?

I know I won't.

Obviously, the power he re-directed was not meant to harm him, or anyone else.

Originally posted by Air Legend

I believe the spirit of anything is beyond nullification, but I'll concede if this isn't a What If, though I highly doubt it, since you mentioned Korvac

I can't debate this way.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Nullification energies had no affect on the Fury!

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=486821&pagenumber=1

Fury got all messed [b]from its trip through UniverseS:
(it couldn't teleport at this time, so it had to travel the old fashion way,
it must've been battered through out the entire trip with lord knows what)

"It Arrived an Hour ago"

"It comes from Another Universe ...
it's Journey was Not pleasant,
it no longer has Limbs" [/B]

this is just theory master.

Is it possible that what damaged it was the lack of substance when the universe was destroyed and hence it didn't have the means of recovery and on top of that it cross dimensionel barriers that with all respect the SS can cross without showing any signs of damage, this leads me to believe that the Fury was weakened from the nullification and the lack of substance to replace it energies the dimensionel travel then further exhaust the already exhausted Fury again it's just a theory because I personally have a hard time seeing how the Fury survives entire unharmed a nullification attack and but when it cross a dimensionel Barrier it's almost killed.

Originally posted by Utrigita
this is just theory master.

Is it possible that what damaged it was the lack of substance when the universe was destroyed and hence it didn't have the means of recovery and on top of that it cross dimensionel barriers that with all respect the SS can cross without showing any signs of damage, this leads me to believe that the Fury was weakened from the nullification and the lack of substance to replace it energies the dimensionel travel then further exhaust the already exhausted Fury again it's just a theory because I personally have a hard time seeing how the Fury survives entire unharmed a nullification attack and but when it cross a dimensionel Barrier it's almost killed.