The Great Evil Beast runs the Gauntlet

OK, as you'll notice I won't start of with fodder characters such as Batman to extend the gauntlet. Nor will I end it with something obvious such as TOAA.

1. Mxyzptlk (Hyperspace feats included, such as World's Funnest)
2. Michael and Lucifer
3. Living Tribunal
4. Spectre merged with the Source
5. Classic Beyonder without any self-imposed restrictions, full power.
6. Thanos with the Heart

Explanation: The majority consider Spectre Prime equal to the Living Tribunal, but there's also a few that consider him greater, so either (subjective view) Spectre is equal or greater.
Classic Beyonder is considered to be at the same level Thanos was when he aquired the Heart, but again, some consider Thanos to have been greater.

I don't know about the rest,
but no matter who or how powerful this thing is,
it's not going to pass classic Beyonder at full power.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I don't know about the rest,
but no matter who or how powerful this thing is,
it's not going to pass classic Beyonder.

Originally posted by Starscream M

you don't know how powerful the GEB is,
yet you can claim with certainty he can't beat classic Beyonder?!

btw. I know it's supposed to be the Presence's polar opposite,
but that would make no difference anyway.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Which is why I said, "no matter how powerful." 🙂

btw. I know it's supposed to be the Presence's polar opposite,
but that would make no difference anyway.

Originally posted by Starscream M

so you are basically saying Classic Beyonder is pretty much the most powerful being?

So, basically, only a Supreme being can stalemate Beyonder (unlimited version)
but, no one can defeat him,
just like no one can defeat THOTI or the Presence/GEB.

Supreme being vs Supreme being = eternal stalemate.

TOAA/Morrison avatar (and others the like) are above them all.
Because they actually create everything that takes place on panel,
just like a writer imagines a story which is then drawn by an artist.
(in fact, they are actually fictional representational avatars of the real world artists/writers)

That's the literal Marvel & DC depiction of the true "Gods" of each company.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Not exactly,
I would put THOTI as an equal because it too was a Supreme power,
it essentially made Thanos the Supreme being of the Marvel Omniverse,
the Infinity being was also once the Supreme being, so that's another equal.

So, basically, only a Supreme being can stalemate Beyonder (unlimited version)
but, no one can defeat him,
just like no one can defeat THOTI or the Presence/GEB.

Supreme being vs Supreme being = eternal stalemate.

He gets KO'ed at Classic Beyonder. If he manages to get past him Thanos with HoTU will bring him down.

Originally posted by Starscream M

actually, TOAA could defeat Beyonder, quite easily...hence,
if GEB is close to TOAA's power,
then he too stands good chance of beating Beyonder

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In fact for the record, that Morrison avatar is not the Presence either,
that Morrison avatar is exactly what Toaa/God from FF#511 represented:

Real world artists/writers.

The Presence is a drawing,
or idea on a piece of paper that was created by this type of Morrison avatar.

The Presence is an entity that's intergrated into the DC divine reality,
he has family, aspects of himself, and even a polar opposite.

Morrison did not identify with his creation as an equal, opposite or inferior existence,
but rather as what they really are,
just a drawing on a piece of paper.

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Just like Reed and the FF, Silver Surfer, Black Panther and even Galactus,
are just silly drawings on a piece of paper to the real OAA/God (writers/artists avatars)

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The Presence and THOTI are less than nothing to these true Gods of Marvel and DC.

The Presence and THOTI,
are the complete fictional representations of supreme beings,
withIN their respective realities. (DC and Marvel)

Morrison/Carlin and Kirbiesk/Lee type avatars are the creators of these drawings, ("supreme beings"😉
even though they themselves are being represented by a drawing as well.

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So bottom line:

The Presence = THOTI
(since both represent the Supreme Beings withIN their realities)

Morrison/Carlin/Kirbiesk/lee >>> Presence/HOTI
(since they literally represent the creators of everything that takes place on panel)
(including "supreme beings"😉 that also appear on panel relating themselves with other drawings.

You are wrong Mr. Master

It may be true that the artists/writers are the most powerful beings...but the Presence/THOTI is not the next level of power....they are God/TOAA in DC/Marvel respectively

so hierchy is

writers/artists >>>>> God/TOAA >>> The Presence/THOTI >= Classic Beyonder

now, you stated that "no matter how powerful GEB is, he can't beat Beyonder"

I have shown that statement to be false

for if GEB is as powerful as God/TOAA, then he is more powerful than Beyonder and can beat him

Wouldn't it be more fair to say THOTU = TOAA since that's what Thanos became right?

Morrison/Kirby = true gods of DC/Marvel outside then inside The Presence/TOAA within the reality's/comics. 😛

Actually writers shouldn't be in a fictional hierarchy. However, a writer can add (draw) himself into the comic. That drawing is a fictional character, but that doesn't necessarely mean he's powerful. He's just as powerful as the actual writer allows him to be, just like any other fictional character.

Not so long ago there were a battle between Thor and Stan Lee in th "Character ownage thread" where they were pretty close in power.
There, the writer decided it to be that way. Morrison in the comic above might even be "weak"--it depends on what the writer wants.

However Shooter wanted Beyonder to be supreme.

Originally posted by Starscream M

You are wrong Mr. Master

Originally posted by Starscream M

It may be true that the artists/writers are the most powerful beings...

Originally posted by Starscream M

but the Presence/THOTI is not the next level of power....
they are God/TOAA in DC/Marvel respectively

Originally posted by Starscream M

so hierchy is

writers/artists >>>>> God/TOAA >>> The Presence/THOTI >= Classic Beyonder

TOAA is a combination of the writers and artists of Marvel.

Morrison/Carlin type avatars are the counter-parts to TOAA.

That's a fact!

The Presence/GEB & THOTI (supreme powers of each company) are equal.

Classic Beyonder according to Jim Shooter:
(Jim was the writer/creator of Beyonder & Secret Wars & Editor in-Chief of Marvel)
was "God before genesis"
and his reality was like an Ocean to a drop of water,
when comparing the Beyond realm to the infinite Multiverse

Yea, even though that sounds like something much greater,
I prefer to keep the Beyonder just = to current "Supreme beings."

Originally posted by Starscream M

now, you stated that "no matter how powerful GEB is, he can't beat Beyonder"

I have shown that statement to be false

Yea sure.

But based on facts, that is ... on panel facts, corroborated by the Writer himself,
you have NO idea what you're talking about.

Originally posted by Starscream M

for if GEB is as powerful as God/TOAA,
then he is more powerful than Beyonder and can beat him

The GEB is just a drawing on a piece of paper to TOAA.

If you can't accept that fact,
write Marvel a letter and complain. 🙂

Originally posted by kevdude

Wouldn't it be more fair to say THOTU = TOAA since that's what Thanos became right?

Thanos became what TOAA drew on a piece of paper.

Originally posted by kevdude

Morrison/Kirby = true gods of DC/Marvel outside
then inside The Presence/TOAA within the reality's/comics.

So I have to disagree with your conclusion.

I know that no matter what the Presence is based on (real world God or not)
it's still just a drawing on a piece of paper.

So to suggest that a drawing on a piece of paper is above it's real world creators,
is illogical.
(although they're both represented by artwork,
one artistically represents a fictional reality,
the other artistically represents fiction based on truth)

The real God of the bible appearing in a comic is ludicrous and impossible,
but artistic visuals,
of Morrison/Kirbiesk avatars representing the writers/artists of the industry withIN a comic,
is easily accomplished with a pencil and some ink.

Morrison/Carlin/kirbiesk/lee avatars are the true Gods of Marvel and DC,
there's no arguing this friends.

GEB clears. IT can stalemate a supreme being. No one on the list would win out in the end. Maybe Thanos with the heart could pull a stalemate. Maybe. I dont' consider him the supreme being either, but many do.

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(an artist that toils with his drawings ... just like in the real world)

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"Meeting the Maker!" (writers/artists of Marvel ... TOAA)

(excerpt from the FF Ultimate Guide)

This is an official Handbook Marvel comics source,
it's stating exactly what took place On Panel:

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++++ On Panel verification +++

1.

"The FF were amazed to find out,
he sketched out Reality in the same way as a comic-book artist:"

2.

"Redrawing Ben so that he once agan resembled the Thing:"

3.

"God then re-drew the FF's World, transporting them home:"

🙂

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More Proof!

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(excerpt from the Official Marvel Handbook - FF - bio)

... "Quest led them to the gates of Heaven itself ...
the CreatorS (artists/writers) allowed it,
even healing Reed's facial scars as a parting gift.

++++ On Panel verification +++

FF# 511, is 100% Canon,

part of continuity and evidently the way God looks in Marvel..

yawn

I'm sure "God" can look like anything he chooses even in Marvel comics,
but,
"God" has only chosen to take the form of Human writers and artists
that work for Marvel in the real world.

Even using names in the literal sense:

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Here's Roberto Sacasa (writer) appearing as what part of "God" is in Marvel.

(a writer ... and an artist as we saw in FF#511)

It's once again, fictional humanoid representations of real people.

I mean, even Joe Quesada (editor in-chief) is illustrated,
and depicted discussing the FF's future in their writing department:

.......................................................................................................

This is cool,

they convey the depiction as though the characters they give life to, are real:

.......................................................................................................

The writer imagines what will take place in the Marvelverse,

the artist then brings it to life on panel.

.......................................................................................................

This is a nice example of the "power," for lack of a better term, that TOAA has:

Sacasa decides to gives Reed the ability to "invent a tracking device that can scour the MultiverseS"

The Writer (TOAA) gave Reed Trans-Multiversal capabilities with a thought. 🙂

This isn't even "power" really being displayed by this "writer,"
it's inconsequential when categorizing it next to other stories/characters,
because they literally create everything that takes place on panel.

The writer/artist avatars are simply drawings in comics,
that represent the real writers/artists of the real world.

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PS. As we can all see, the top dog is the Editor in-Chief Joe Quesada,
but the Writer is the one that imagines what we read on panel,
and the artist is the one that gives that imagination life through illustrations.

Over at DC it's the same!

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I also enjoyed Morrison's portrayal of a true comic book "God" in the Animal Man arc:

.................................................................................

It's right along the lines of FF#511, and other Marvel depictions,
but it's blatant, and more thorough in getting the idea across.

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------

"I'm the evil mastermind behind the scenes.
I'm the wicked puppeteer who pulls the strings and makes you dance..."

"I'm your writer.":

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"You'll be whatever you're written to be!":

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And as I'm sure most could've guessed,
the 'supreme being' varies with each individual comic:

======

credit to Galan on these scans:

TOAA/god depends on the writer/artist and above all editor in-chief.

During Beyonder's reign,
Beyonder was the representative avatar of the writer/editor in-chief Jim Shooter,
in fact, Beyonder, according to Shooter himself, was really above even his avatar,
senseless as that is, that's how far the exaggeration of his power became.

Again, that's why the forced retcon came into play.

So what does this lead to?

TOAA/god is the Supreme being now.

According to Jim Shooter the WRITER/EDITOR in-Chief of all Marvel,
Beyonder was a GOD unto himself, in his own Reality,
and the entire infinite Marvel reality was like a drop of water to his ocean of a reality.

When Beyonder was around, he was the "Supreme being"
that came from another universe where he was also the Supreme being,
yes, he came to the Marvel Universe, took over, and became Reality. (Supreme being)

Beyonder withIN the Marvel Reality:

"The Mightiest beings are microbes to me"

"Reality isn't real to me! Eveything is what I say it is"

"My imagination and reality are virtually indistinguishable"

"All Existence, except for me, might as well be a figment of my imagination"

"I who utterly dictate All Reality"

"As long as I conceive of things, they exist, in a fashion,
because my thoughts equal Reality"