OMEGA RED vs, DEATHSTROKE · Comic Book 'Versus' Forum

Juntai Divine Vengeance

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Seriously, Shang Chi is a mirror image of Richard Dragon in terms of skill. That's about as close as you can get to Shang in DC comics... only Dragon can't do half the things Shang Chi can. Batman has proven unable to beat Dragon or Shiva in one on one combat when they are both at their fighting best with skill alone... and he is physically superior to them both and wears body armor. Marvel's top tiers have beaten Shang Chi. When Zaran needed to improve his cred after Shang Chi kicked his ass, he knew he'd need to beat an even more skilled opponent so he challenged Captain America.

And neither Shiva, nor Dragon has gotten the better of Bruce either. The same cannot be said the other way around. Not only has Batman defeated Shiva, but he had also proven the ability to Batgirl in a few panels with minimal effort, who is Shiva's clear better- shown on multiple occasions.

[Insert part of you saying she made Bruce cought up blood, ignoring the fact Bruce had other battles in the arc, and in fact held back a KILL STROKE on Batgirl, and her knowing she was defeated - being completely frozen in fear by speed and skill he possessed.]

We've been through this several times, and each times you keep up the same drivel.

Juntai Divine Vengeance

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I don't have the scan.

Of course you don't.

iceman24567 Senior Member

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I don't have the scan. He is fighting Zemo when he says it.

Ok i know which fight you mean he said he is adept at every known martial art in the world 😄 not a master. Still impressive but Batman is adept at over 120 martial arts so yeah...

srankmissingnin VP of Comic Knowledge

Originally posted by Juntai
And neither Shiva, nor Dragon has gotten the better of Bruce either. The same cannot be said the other way around. Not only has Batman defeated Shiva, but he had also proven the ability to Batgirl in a few panels with minimal effort, who is Shiva's clear better- shown on multiple occasions.
[Insert part of you saying she made Bruce cought up blood, ignoring the fact Bruce had other battles in the arc, and in fact held back a KILL STROKE on Batgirl, and her knowing she was defeated - being completely frozen in fear by speed and skill he possessed.]
We've been through this several times, and each times you keep up the same drivel.

I'm not intirely convinced that Cass is Shiva's superior. Her victories seem to have more to do with A)CIS on Shiva's part B) Shiva has a death wish and C) some sort of twisted motherly affection. Until Shiva busts out the Leopards blow she his playing with the kid gloves IMO.

Once again. Cass was shown to be Bruce's superior in that little exchange. He thought he won... and ended up coughing up blood and Cass had a big 'ol smirk on her face. I'll ask you - why include those panels if not to show that dispite appearances, Cass came out on top? If the intention was to show that Batman was superior, they would have left it out; instead he ends up coughing up blood with out even realising he sustained that time of internal damage.

So now you are trying to say that Batman was coughing up blood for some totally unrelated injury that he sustained form an other battle? Sheesh! The intire point of that little scrimish was to show that Cass had gotten the better of Batman with out him even realising it. Seriously Bruce was on the run from Cass for a whole issue. He was using all the tricks he had to get away. She kept him on the defensive the whole time... and she was just trying to snake a kiss from him.

srankmissingnin VP of Comic Knowledge

Originally posted by iceman24567
Ok i know which fight you mean he said he is adept at every known martial art in the world 😄 not a master. Still impressive but Batman is adept at over 120 martial arts so yeah...

That is just semantics though.

Juntai Divine Vengeance

Originally posted by iceman24567
Ok i know which fight you mean he said he is adept at every known martial art in the world 😄 not a master. Still impressive but Batman is adept at over 120 martial arts so yeah...

http://www.batman-of-gotham.supanet.com/Batman_JLAMember_JimLee.jpg

Batman is MASTER of nearly ALL forms of combat... not just Martial arts.

Even Alfred in one of the recent issues, talking with a concerned Robin, commented on how Batman was trained to 'absolute mastery' from all the worlds top martial artsists.

Juntai Divine Vengeance

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
That is just semantics though.

It's entirely a case of adept not even being close to master level.

iceman24567 Senior Member

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
That is just semantics though.

You could say that but being adept still doesn't equal mastery Batman on panel has MASTERED more martial arts. 😱 I don't like playing with words but thats all we can do when it come to reading comics...

Juntai Divine Vengeance

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I'm not intirely convinced that Cass is Shiva's superior. Her victories seem to have more to do with A)CIS on Shiva's part B) Shiva has a death wish and C) some sort of twisted motherly affection. Until Shiva busts out the Leopards blow she his playing with the kid gloves IMO.
Once again. Cass was shown to be Bruce's superior in that little exchange. He thought he won... and ended up coughing up blood and Cass had a big 'ol smirk on her face. I'll ask you - why include those panels if not to show that dispite appearances, Cass came out on top? If the intention was to show that Batman was superior, they would have left it out; instead he ends up coughing up blood with out even realising he sustained that time of internal damage.
So now you are trying to say that Batman was coughing up blood for some totally unrelated injury that he sustained form an other battle? Sheesh! The intire point of that little scrimish was to show that Cass had gotten the better of Batman with out him even realising it. Seriously Bruce was on the run from Cass for a whole issue. He was using all the tricks he had to get away. She kept him on the defensive the whole time... and she was just trying to snake a kiss from him.

He had a kill strike, if he wanted to take it. Lets make an exchange, you make me cought up blood, and I'll kill you, and then I'll ask the cops who won when they show up. Don't be an idiot, she knew she was beaten, it was clearly depicted she was beaten. You're reaching entirely too far, she was completely and utterly frozen in fear at Batman's speed strength and skill.

iceman24567 Senior Member

Originally posted by Juntai
http://www.batman-of-gotham.supanet.com/Batman_JLAMember_JimLee.jpg
Batman is MASTER of nearly ALL forms of combat... not just Martial arts.
Even Alfred in one of the recent issues, talking with a concerned Robin, commented on how Batman was trained to 'absolute mastery' from all the worlds top martial artsists.

Thanks for that sir never knew about that there.

srankmissingnin VP of Comic Knowledge

Originally posted by Juntai
It's entirely a case of adept not even being close to master level.

Not really. You could argue that the connotative mean would imply a lesser degree of skill, but not the denotative meaning... and we are back at semantics.

srankmissingnin VP of Comic Knowledge

Originally posted by Juntai
http://www.batman-of-gotham.supanet.com/Batman_JLAMember_JimLee.jpg
Batman is MASTER of nearly ALL forms of combat... not just Martial arts.
Even Alfred in one of the recent issues, talking with a concerned Robin, commented on how Batman was trained to 'absolute mastery' from all the worlds top martial artsists.

We are just talking about one panel statements of skill. By the same token both Wolverine and Deadpool have mastered every martial art, but it isn't something that can be verified by on panel examples in continuity.

srankmissingnin VP of Comic Knowledge

I'm about to go out, if you guys want to save your replies for a couple of hours, it will make replying to them easier.

Juntai Divine Vengeance

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
We are just talking about one panel statements of skill. By the same token both Wolverine and Deadpool have mastered every martial art, but it isn't something that can be verified by on panel examples in continuity.

However, at least Batman's example is the narration, and not a random panel of attempting to brag and rattle an opponents confidence.

We have to go by what evidence is given to us in the comics.

Nice way to try to downplay it however, once the evidence gets thrown in your face.

Btw, for future reference, here's your Cap scan.

iceman24567 Senior Member

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I'm about to go out, if you guys want to save your replies for a couple of hours, it will make replying to them easier.

I will try and remember but the cronic has gotten to my memory.

iceman24567 Senior Member

Originally posted by Juntai
However, at least Batman's example is the narration, and not a random panel of attempting to brag and rattle an opponents confidence.
Nice way to try to downplay it however, once the evidence gets thrown in your face.
Btw, for future reference, here's your Cap scan.

Yeah i nailed that in the ass 😆

srankmissingnin VP of Comic Knowledge

Since clearly none of you have any idea who Shang Chi here are some scans. Read comics people. Read them or don't open your mouths. Now, please let me know which of the fallowing feats you feel Batman, Dragon, Cass, or Shiva would be able to replicate.

Wisdom 03: Skill / Speed / Durability / Chi

Shang Chi confronts a dragon in human form. He ends up fight a score of gangsters and totally decimates them with out taking a single hit. The bar keep tries to shoot Shang Chi, but he shows his bullet time speed. Then he starts fighting the Dragon... and stops half way through the fight to have a brief conversation WHILE STANDING ON THE CEILING. The dragon shifts out of his human form and lands a colossal upper cut on Shang Chi that rockets him through the building and thousands of feet into the air. The dragon flys up to catch him on his way down and they both slam hard into the ground. Shang Chi is unhurt... in fact he is happy.

Heroes for Hire 12: Strength / Skill / Chi

Shang Chi amps his body to take a direct punch from Hiroim. Hiroim posses the Old Strong, which gives him Hulk like strength among other abilities. Shang Chi briefly grapples with him before being over powered.

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/shangchirespectthread/Heroes_for_Hire_12_10Strength-1.jpg
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/shangchirespectthread/Heroes_for_Hire_12_12Strength-1.jpg

Marvel Comics Presents 156: Skill / Speed

Shang Chi spins around so fast he creates a miniature tornado that conceals his body. He then moves out of the tornado and flanks his opponents with out them realising it. Takes of the shooters down with a subtle tap to the neck and blitzes another.

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/shangchirespectthread/MarvelComicsPresents156b-11-1.jpg
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/shangchirespectthread/MarvelComicsPresents156b-12-1.jpg

Marvel Comics Presents 158: Skill / Chi

Shang Chi uses one of his chi abilities - the Silent Scream - to end his fight with Lazarus. It shatters all the windows in the church he is fighting in and kos Lazarus.

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/shangchirespectthread/MarvelComicsPresents158b-16-1.jpg
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/shangchirespectthread/MarvelComicsPresents158b-17-1.jpg

srankmissingnin VP of Comic Knowledge

Originally posted by Juntai
However, at least Batman's example is the narration, and not a random panel of attempting to brag and rattle an opponents confidence.
We have to go by what evidence is given to us in the comics.
Nice way to try to downplay it however, once the evidence gets thrown in your face.
Btw, for future reference, here's your Cap scan.

Yeah... but it is a narration of an JLA handbook or guide is it not?

Starscream M Senior Member

so basically Shang Chi tries to show off against pathetic B-listers (Hirom? Lazarous? who the hell are these losers)

batman faces toptiers and does well (darkseid, grundy, superman)

please stop it with the undeserved Shang Chi wankage

srankmissingnin VP of Comic Knowledge

Originally posted by Starscream M
so basically Shang Chi tries to show off against pathetic B-listers (Hirom? Lazarous? who the hell are these losers)
batman faces toptiers and does well (darkseid, grundy, superman)
please stop it with the undeserved Shang Chi wankage

Find one thing, in the scans I provided that Batman can replicate. Please.

Gundy isn't a top tier. Batman does "well" against Superman with prep and kryptonite. Attack Darkseid and surviving is the same as "doing well" and Darkseid is a notorious jobber. And none of that translated into martial art skill.