thoughts on sentry vs wwh

Originally posted by bbrem123
cuz it says he let go makes him use all his powers? how so?

he just unleash his power without the concern of hurting anyone

2 he's revelling in fully unloading on The Hulk, he talks about how he used to be the one trying to calm Hulk down, and now "at the END..." he's the one unable to calm down (ie, going OTT).

3 the comments of Thing and Reed re the energy output by Sentry.

it's basically beyond question. seriously.

Originally posted by janus77
case closed:

I like a debate, I don't mind an argument but, this subject is just ridiculous. the comic is definitive in that Sentry went all out, that Sentry poured all the strength/power he had into it... cutting loose.

this place is full of people with an intense agenda against a fictional character (Hulk), who have in the passed attempted to argue absurdities so as to dismiss or belittle the character's established, on-panel, feats.

as powersets go, having +infinite+ power/energy, pretty much trumps everything Sentry has. the only way Sentry could win, fighting smart, would be to stay out of range of Hulk.

though given 1) Hulk/Banner is a genius up there with Stark et al, 2) Hulk has range attacks that can affect an area the size of the continental shelf (and more), 3) that he cannot be killed or KO'd by ALL of Sentry's energies and 4) that he will regenerate from everything whilst fighting without let up ... I think Sentry stands zero chance of winning anything other than by bfr or some plot device.

Originally posted by janus77
not my images - just linking from the respect thread.

Sentry wanted to "cut loose", to "let go", it wasn't that he wanted to fight Hulk but that he could fight Hulk without holding back.

look at what he's saying in the scan, he's actually revelling in the fact that he's totally lost control but, at the start he demonstrates a level of calculation - he explicitly states that Hulk is the only one that he can hit (all out).

I don't see Sentry intending to kill or even believing that he could kill Hulk, but I do see Sentry intending to really give everything he has, all that power that he's too scared to use in normal situations, and damn the consequences. I thought the "goodbye" thing was just him being pessimistic (which seems in character) about his own chances of survival.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Dood! Resize those pictures dammit!!!! 😠

Yes, Sentry was going all out. But when you act like a punching bag and hit Hulk with open-handed slaps, I don't think he was pouring everything he had into defeating Hulk. We don't know the limits of Sentry's power yet. This was the best we've seen so far. But you have to admit, a significant amount of power/energy/stamina was being wasted when he let Hulk hit him with dozens of buster shots that can one-shot the likes of Ares, Thing, She-Hulk, etc.

as far as energy efficiency goes, that's actually not much of a point in favour of Sentry. Hulk's energies can break the world with footsteps. Sentry's uncontrolled, stray energies, merely did in a city.

it's quite unreasonable to assume that even if those energies were focussed and directed at Hulk (and it's quite clear that the majority of it was), it would have affected the outcome.

Hulk's taken worse, from Zom/Strange. Sentry's upper limits were clearly delineated there. that's all.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Yes, Sentry was going all out. But when you act like a punching bag and hit Hulk with open-handed slaps, I don't think he was pouring everything he had into defeating Hulk. We don't know the limits of Sentry's power yet. This was the best we've seen so far. But you have to admit, a significant amount of power/energy/stamina was being wasted when he let Hulk hit him with dozens of buster shots that can one-shot the likes of Ares, Thing, She-Hulk, etc.
He's not calculating anything. He was going based on feeling. The only way he knew how to start unleashing his power was to goad WWH into hitting back. And he basically let Banner hit him half a dozen times to finally get that spark. The conversations with Stark and Sentry's exuberance during the fight are evidence that he believed his power would kill the Hulk. Pak also confirmed this. He underestimated Hulk. Simple as that. He didn't go into it thinking he would lose at all. If he thought he'd lose from the outset, he'd never go in the first place since he was afraid of cutting loose.

Your post is very good, I have to say though that an open handed slap can be more deadly than a closed fisted stike hence Dragon style Kung-Fu. Good post though.

Originally posted by janus77
1 he's totally tapped out at the end. I'd say that's a pretty big CLUE, that he used all his power against The Hulk

2 he's revelling in fully unloading on The Hulk, he talks about how he used to be the one trying to calm Hulk down, and now "at the END..." he's the one unable to calm down (ie, going OTT).

3 the comments of Thing and Reed re the energy output by Sentry.

it's basically beyond question. seriously.

he wasnt tapped out he gained control...biggg difference...his limit is still unknown, if there even is one

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
He's not calculating anything. He was going based on feeling. The only way he knew how to start unleashing his power was to goad WWH into hitting back. And he basically let Banner hit him half a dozen times to finally get that spark. The conversations with Stark and Sentry's exuberance during the fight are evidence that he believed his power would kill the Hulk. Pak also confirmed this. He underestimated Hulk. Simple as that. He didn't go into it thinking he would lose at all. If he thought he'd lose from the outset, he'd never go in the first place since he was afraid of cutting loose.

with the Hulk, he's quite clear about the fact that he doesn't need to worry about it and given that he did not set out to try and kill the Hulk, it's reasonable to read his motivation for the fight as being cathartic.

the statement by Tony carries little insight into Sentry's motivations, that's Tony justifying himself (yet again), because he behaves like that. taking on God's authority, for himself.

Sentry clearly doesn't/didn't give a hoot about Hulk's war with the illuminati, what Sentry did was just take the opportunity to really work out his issues, using Hulk as a "sparring partner".

this interpretation also makes sense of the "thanks" that Bob utters, before passing out. Sentry's had some sense knocked into him, as well as the stuffing socked out of him.

Originally posted by janus77
get a bigger monitor 😎

as far as energy efficiency goes, that's actually not much of a point in favour of Sentry. Hulk's energies can break the world with footsteps. Sentry's uncontrolled, stray energies, merely did in a city.

it's quite unreasonable to assume that even if those energies were focussed and directed at Hulk (and it's quite clear that the majority of it was), it would have affected the outcome.

Hulk's taken worse, from Zom/Strange. Sentry's upper limits were clearly delineated there. that's all.

haha u cant go by damage caused...sentry vs genis it was said there powers would destoy worlds...while restraining

Originally posted by bbrem123
he wasnt tapped out he gained control...biggg difference...his limit is still unknown, if there even is one

Sentry didn't "regain control", he was spent and so spent that he couldn't even retain consciousness.

remember, Sentry doesn't grow 'weaker' or anything, in his Reynolds persona, it's like Superman/Clark Kent... the character's just in uniform and out of uniform.

so, care to explain how Bruce Banner KTFO'd Sentry?

come on, Sentry was spent, tapped out, finished. power exhausted.

Originally posted by janus77
get a bigger monitor 😎

as far as energy efficiency goes, that's actually not much of a point in favour of Sentry. Hulk's energies can break the world with footsteps. Sentry's uncontrolled, stray energies, merely did in a city.

it's quite unreasonable to assume that even if those energies were focussed and directed at Hulk (and it's quite clear that the majority of it was), it would have affected the outcome.

Hulk's taken worse, from Zom/Strange. Sentry's upper limits were clearly delineated there. that's all.

Hulk probably would have still beaten Sentry, even if Sentry was able to benefit from all that lost power/energy/stamina... if he still acted like a punching bag. But if he wasn't acting like a punching bag... who knows? I'm pretty sure Pak left it somewhat open ended. Rarely do we get a definitive victories or defeats in comics. I consider it a win for the Hulk and an outstanding measure of his capacity. But I don't consider Hulk to be definitively superior to Sentry, given all the circumstances.

Originally posted by bbrem123
haha u cant go by damage caused...sentry vs genis it was said there powers would destoy worlds...while restraining

clearly Sentry's attacks were pretty much focussed, the energies were burning and otherwise attacking Hulk all the time, even though there was a bit of energy that went astray.

Bill destroyed a far smaller planet than the earth.

Originally posted by CaptainStoic
Bill destroyed a far smaller planet than the earth.

Bill actually destroyed two planets during that arc and both appeared to be just as big of bigger then earth.

Dude. Take it from Greg Pak himself. Sentry figured they were going to both die. They both burned each other out. Banner was the last man standing, so he won. It was a good showing for the both of them. It's that simple:

NRAMA: The Sentry’s "Goodbye old friend" - what was that prelude to? I don't mean to sound like the guy who only saw the special effects and missed the story - but what happened to the Sentry and Hulk to change them back to Bob and Bruce? Was this Bruce consciously deciding to stop, to save the world by sending the Hulk away?

GP: "Goodbye old friend" is the Sentry's way of saying that he figures they're both going to die now that he's unleashed his power so completely. Bob and Bruce appear because these two megaheavyweights have pounded each other so hard and so long that they've forced each other to revert to their respective puny human forms.

Originally posted by carver9
Bill actually destroyed two planets during that arc and both appeared to be just as big of bigger then earth.

I'll need to look again, but they really looked more like the size of the moon to me. Perhaps we should check the stories together.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Oh come on now. Collateral damage is hardly definitive an indication of overall power. Especially since Sentry was aiming his power at Banner and when Banner stomped his foot down, that power was going directly into the ground. I think Worldbreaker Hulk was exhibiting more power than Beta Ray Bill normally does in fights, but Beta Ray Bill has literally shattered planets with his hammer fighting Stardust. Are you prepared to concede that Beta Ray Bill's power is far superior to Worldbreaker Hulk's?

Hulk probably would have still beaten Sentry, even if Sentry was able to benefit from all that lost power/energy/stamina... if he still acted like a punching bag. But if he wasn't acting like a punching bag... who knows? I'm pretty sure Pak left it somewhat open ended. Rarely do we get a definitive victories or defeats in comics. I consider it a win for the Hulk and an outstanding measure of his capacity. But I don't consider Hulk to be definitively superior to Sentry, given all the circumstances.

as far as I see it, Sentry's not got enough power nor the matter/energy manipulation abilities necessary to fight Hulk.

as for BRB, I highly doubt anyone beneath Skyfather has a similar power-output (potential as well as demonstrated) to Hulk. we've never seen Surfer (far more powerful than BRB) demonstrate infinite anything. Hulk has done so, both to Samsom's and The Leader's satisfaction. this is quite old stuff, Hulk has infinite power/energies.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Oh come on now. Collateral damage is hardly definitive an indication of overall power. Especially since Sentry was aiming his power at Banner and when Banner stomped his foot down, that power was going directly into the ground. I think Worldbreaker Hulk was exhibiting more power than Beta Ray Bill normally does in fights, but Beta Ray Bill has literally shattered planets with his hammer fighting Stardust. Are you prepared to concede that Beta Ray Bill's power is far superior to Worldbreaker Hulk's?

Hulk probably would have still beaten Sentry, even if Sentry was able to benefit from all that lost power/energy/stamina... if he still acted like a punching bag. But if he wasn't acting like a punching bag... who knows? I'm pretty sure Pak left it somewhat open ended. Rarely do we get a definitive victories or defeats in comics. I consider it a win for the Hulk and an outstanding measure of his capacity. But I don't consider Hulk to be definitively superior to Sentry, given all the circumstances.

exactly the fight ended in a ko but it was not from being tapped out...it was from letting hulk give him a beating

and yes writers rarely ever show a definite victory or defeat between major heroes thats y there r so many vs thread like this one...there is always evidence to counter somebodys point

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Dude. Take it from Greg Pak himself. Sentry figured they were going to both die. They both burned each other out. Banner was the last man standing, so he won. It was a good showing for the both of them. It's that simple:

NRAMA: The Sentry’s "Goodbye old friend" - what was that prelude to? I don't mean to sound like the guy who only saw the special effects and missed the story - but what happened to the Sentry and Hulk to change them back to Bob and Bruce? Was this Bruce consciously deciding to stop, to save the world by sending the Hulk away?

GP: "Goodbye old friend" is the Sentry's way of saying that he figures they're both going to die now that he's unleashed his power so completely. Bob and Bruce appear because these two megaheavyweights have pounded each other so hard and so long that they've forced each other to revert to their respective puny human forms.

yes there endurance gave way

so it was pretty much that the sentry would have unleashed so much energy he would have killed himself and everything else?

Originally posted by bbrem123
exactly the fight ended in a ko but it was not from being tapped out...it was from letting hulk give him a beating

and yes writers rarely ever show a definite victory or defeat between major heroes thats y there r so many vs thread like this one...there is always evidence to counter somebodys point

as Pak said of Sentry he "unleashed his power so completely"...

furthermore ... Sentry doesn't have a "puny human form" though, he's a rip off of Superman and his Bob Reynolds form is just Sentry in civvies...

how does Sentry revert to a "puny human form", he has to be tapped out.

Originally posted by janus77
it's amazing how you agree with him whilst contradicting the very quote he cites.

as Pak said of Sentry he "unleashed his power so completely"...

furthermore ... Sentry doesn't have a "puny human form" though, he's a rip off of Superman and his Bob Reynolds form is just Sentry in civvies...

how does Sentry revert to a "puny human form", he has to be tapped out.

he definitely reverted cuz banner punched him out lol...and he had different clothes on

Bob Reynolds definitely turns into the Sentry. If you look at a lot of the artistic depictions, Bob Reynolds is a lanky puny guy, usually with short hair. Sentry is a ripped, long-haired dude glowing with power. It's about as different as Don Blake and Thor. Bob Reynolds is definitely not like a Clark Kent secret identity. The Sentry is a completely different manifestation of his being like the Void is that is able to maintain a stream of consciousness between the manifestations. But Sentry doesn't simply change his uniform into civvies when he wants to revert to his Bob Reynolds persona.