thoughts on sentry vs wwh

Originally posted by janus77
your argument is quite clearly untrue.

Sentry might 'conceivably' have unlimited power, but that is actually proven to be false as he does go all-out, fully unleashing his power, against WWH and fails to even leave a lasting mark.

Hulk on the otherhand does possess infinite power/energies (and thus infinite strength as a manifestation of that extra-dimensional/universal power) and has demonstrated that. on-panel. without having to get angry - check out The Leader/Samson etc all testing and confirming Hulk's +infinite+ strength, ie strength/power beyond quantification.

you are attempting to posit a limit in the form of some specious hypothetical "limit" to how angry Banner/Hulk can get, but you refuse to acknowledge that he doesn't need to be/get angry to tap into that infinite power, that he only need be stressed for that strength to come to the fore - instantaneously.

basically, there's no limit to his strength, there's an infinity of power/energy backing it up, the only "limits" that exist are those that Banner consciously imposes. and even those are capable of being negated (stress situations, TP switching off Banner, anger boiling over into rage ...).

it never stats sentry goin all out??

im not arguing that he doesnt have unlimited strength

Originally posted by bbrem123
ur stating false statements if u say the hulk was calm during the fight

Hulk wasn't the insane one rushing somebody who has no quarrel with him. hitting him at superspeeds and revelling in finally fully unleashing his powers.

in fact, Hulk was reticent to engage Sentry, knowing that he would defeat Sentry. Hulk told him, that it was a fight Sentry didn't want. indeed, throughout the fight, Hulk is clearly both calm and cognizant of Sentry's insanity. hence the little lesson he gives Sentry.

Hulk - all thoughout World War Hulk - was focussed. he didn't do the "Hulk smash" stuff, he never lost sight of his objective, his "war" against The Illuminati. it was only after Meik's revelation, that Hulk actually began to flip out.

the whole point of Cho basically telling the reader that Hulk IS ALWAYS holding back, ALWAYS calculating the angles and pulling his punches, was to show that he had never truly let rip. then the WorldBreaker moment, and Cho's statement that it was the first time Hulk was truly in a murderous mood.

Originally posted by janus77
the whole point of Cho basically telling the reader that Hulk IS ALWAYS holding back, ALWAYS calculating the angles and pulling his punches, was to show that he had never truly let rip. then the WorldBreaker moment, and Cho's statement that it was the first time Hulk was truly in a murderous mood.

Originally posted by janus77
you're misreading a very obvious statement of comparison.

Hulk wasn't the insane one rushing somebody who has no quarrel with him. hitting him at superspeeds and revelling in finally fully unleashing his powers.

in fact, Hulk was reticent to engage Sentry, knowing that he would defeat Sentry. Hulk told him, that it was a fight Sentry didn't want. indeed, throughout the fight, Hulk is clearly both calm and cognizant of Sentry's insanity. hence the little lesson he gives Sentry.

Hulk - all thoughout World War Hulk - was focussed. he didn't do the "Hulk smash" stuff, he never lost sight of his objective, his "war" against The Illuminati. it was only after Meik's revelation, that Hulk actually began to flip out.

the whole point of Cho basically telling the reader that Hulk IS ALWAYS holding back, ALWAYS calculating the angles and pulling his punches, was to show that he had never truly let rip. then the WorldBreaker moment, and Cho's statement that it was the first time Hulk was truly in a murderous mood.

Originally posted by bbrem123
it never stats sentry goin all out??

im not arguing that he doesnt have unlimited strength

Sentry states, very clearly, that he's never been able to unleash his powers on anyone before, but he knows that he can do so on Hulk, because Hulk can take it.

it takes a very bitter person to deny what's there in the text and the pretty blatant subtext. Sentry went nuts on Hulk, released all his anger, fury, anxieties, complexes and fears in one blitzkrieg upon The Hulk. and why did he do that? not because Hulk was a threat to the planet (he didn't care), not because Hulk is his enemy (he's not), but because it was cathartic. Sentry was beating on Hulk with ALL HE HAD, Hulk on the other hand was HOLDING BACK and just keeping up with Sentry.

eventually Sentry ran out of power, Hulk never can run out of power.

Originally posted by janus77
you're misreading a very obvious statement of comparison.

Hulk wasn't the insane one rushing somebody who has no quarrel with him. hitting him at superspeeds and revelling in finally fully unleashing his powers.

in fact, Hulk was reticent to engage Sentry, knowing that he would defeat Sentry. Hulk told him, that it was a fight Sentry didn't want. indeed, throughout the fight, Hulk is clearly both calm and cognizant of Sentry's insanity. hence the little lesson he gives Sentry.

Hulk - all thoughout World War Hulk - was focussed. he didn't do the "Hulk smash" stuff, he never lost sight of his objective, his "war" against The Illuminati. it was only after Meik's revelation, that Hulk actually began to flip out.

the whole point of Cho basically telling the reader that Hulk IS ALWAYS holding back, ALWAYS calculating the angles and pulling his punches, was to show that he had never truly let rip. then the WorldBreaker moment, and Cho's statement that it was the first time Hulk was truly in a murderous mood.

yes he was more calm then the sentry but he was not calm by any means

fully unleashing his powers is a statement by u...there is no proof...hulk was trying to stop the sentry for losing complete control...which the hulk accomplishes

and yes the hulk has let rip...he just lost total control at the end...the same thing that was happening to the sentry only the sentry gain control

Originally posted by bbrem123
it never stats sentry goin all out??

im not arguing that he doesnt have unlimited strength

That's a pretty significant handicap. It's like Frazier standing there and letting Ali hit him so that he can get warmed up and let loose and still pretty much just stand there and let Ali hit him while he gives a few good shots of his own. If Sentry was fighting smart, who knows? But I spose on forum matches, CIS is still on and he may not have much else to offer until we see more.

Originally posted by janus77
you are, you are arguing that by -implication- Hulk's strength is limited. this is quite false as is the reasoning behind it. you say that his "anger can only take him so far", whereas you should realise that anger isn't necessary for Hulk to reach infinite levels of power.

Sentry states, very clearly, that he's never been able to unleash his powers on anyone before, but he knows that he can do so on Hulk, because Hulk can take it.

it takes a very bitter person to deny what's there in the text and the pretty blatant subtext. Sentry went nuts on Hulk, released all his anger, fury, anxieties, complexes and fears in one blitzkrieg upon The Hulk. and why did he do that? not because Hulk was a threat to the planet (he didn't care), not because Hulk is his enemy (he's not), but because it was cathartic. Sentry was beating on Hulk with ALL HE HAD, Hulk on the other hand was HOLDING BACK and just keeping up with Sentry.

eventually Sentry ran out of power, Hulk never can run out of power.

yes he kno he could hand it until he regain control which he did...thats y he reverted back

Pak even says this himself

Originally posted by bbrem123
hulk was trying to stop the sentry for losing complete control...which the hulk accomplishes

this is why Hulk turns back into Bruce, he reaches an equilibrium with himself, he's no longer conflicted - check that quote you put up so gleefully - and this is why he really does begin to lose it when Meik reveals the depths of his failing (Hulk's failure to lead Meik by example).

as for the Sentry's full on unleashing against Hulk, I'll look up the scans, but iirc it's pretty clear.

Originally posted by bbrem123
yes he kno he could hand it until he regain control which he did...thats y he reverted back

Pak even says this himself

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
If it helps you reconcile 'World War Hulk,' it's obvious Sentry had never really unleashed his power in the first place and his mental state was simply about letting go of his inhibitions and fears. His focus was not on beating WWH in a fight. I believe he was truly going all out. But he was not truly going all out to defeat WWH. If he was, he wouldn't so nonchalantly take WWH's pounding. He'd defend, dodge, counter, etc. He was going all out for the sake of going all out.

That's a pretty significant handicap. It's like Frazier standing there and letting Ali hit him so that he can get warmed up and let loose and still pretty much just stand there and let Ali hit him while he gives a few good shots of his own. If Sentry was fighting smart, who knows? But I spose on forum matches, CIS is still on and he may not have much else to offer until we see more.

yes but it says in the vs rules each hero at his best ability...this is not sentry at his best at all

Originally posted by janus77
what are you trying to say? (besides the fact that you don't like Hulk and resent the fact that one fictional character is superior in power/strength to another).

what? to be honest i love the hulk...its just a debate(which i love doing) and im jjust tryin to make my points

to be honest i like the hulks character much more then sentry...i just dont think he is superior

Originally posted by bbrem123
yes but it says in the vs rules each hero at his best ability...this is not sentry at his best at all

what does this imply about Sentry "holding back"?

come on people, admit the blummin' obvious for once. Hulk was simply too powerful for Sentry - going ALL out - to KO.

was Sentry fighting smart? of course not, 1) he's a loser headcase and 2) he's in a fist-fight with someone who has more power than him!

but did Sentry let-loose with all his got, really cut loose and damn the consequences to hell? YES, quite obviously that's what he intended to do, that's quite obviously what he did and that's quite obviously why he sought out Hulk for the "fight" in the first place.

Originally posted by janus77
what does this imply about Sentry "holding back"?

come on people, admit the blummin' obvious for once. Hulk was simply too powerful for Sentry - going ALL out - to KO.

was Sentry fighting smart? of course not, 1) he's a loser headcase and 2) he's in a fist-fight with someone who has more power than him!

but did Sentry let-loose with all his got, really cut loose and damn the consequences to hell? YES, quite obviously that's what he intended to do, that's quite obviously what he did and that's quite obviously why he sought out Hulk for the "fight" in the first place.

And I think it's quite obvious that Sentry believed he could defeat Banner from his conversations with Stark and his last comment, "Goodbye, old friend," which indicates that he thought he was going to kill Banner. So he definitely did not go into the fight knowing he would lose or even considered Banner to be too much for him.

P.S. Dood! Resize is your friend!

case closed:

I like a debate, I don't mind an argument but, this subject is just ridiculous. the comic is definitive in that Sentry went all out, that Sentry poured all the strength/power he had into it... cutting loose.

this place is full of people with an intense agenda against a fictional character (Hulk), who have in the passed attempted to argue absurdities so as to dismiss or belittle the character's established, on-panel, feats.

as powersets go, having +infinite+ power/energy, pretty much trumps everything Sentry has. the only way Sentry could win, fighting smart, would be to stay out of range of Hulk.

though given 1) Hulk/Banner is a genius up there with Stark et al, 2) Hulk has range attacks that can affect an area the size of the continental shelf (and more), 3) that he cannot be killed or KO'd by ALL of Sentry's energies and 4) that he will regenerate from everything whilst fighting without let up ... I think Sentry stands zero chance of winning anything other than by bfr or some plot device.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Meh. Sentry never wanted the fight because he knew he'd lose control. Once he decided to "play god," he decided to revel in it and was immediately intoxicated by the feeling of letting loose. He needed something to hit, a target to let loose his power on... but he wasn't exactly fighting Banner to defeat him.

And I think it's quite obvious that Sentry believed he could defeat Banner from his conversations with Stark and his last comment, "Goodbye, old friend," which indicates that he thought he was going to kill Banner. So he definitely did not go into the fight knowing he would lose or even considered Banner to be too much for him.

P.S. Dood! Resize is your friend!

thank you 👆

Originally posted by janus77
case closed:

I like a debate, I don't mind an argument but, this subject is just ridiculous. the comic is definitive in that Sentry went all out, that Sentry poured all the strength/power he had into it... cutting loose.

this place is full of people with an intense agenda against a fictional character (Hulk), who have in the passed attempted to argue absurdities so as to dismiss or belittle the character's established, on-panel, feats.

as powersets go, having +infinite+ power/energy, pretty much trumps everything Sentry has. the only way Sentry could win, fighting smart, would be to stay out of range of Hulk.

though given 1) Hulk/Banner is a genius up there with Stark et al, 2) Hulk has range attacks that can affect an area the size of the continental shelf (and more), 3) that he cannot be killed or KO'd by ALL of Sentry's energies and 4) that he will regenerate from everything whilst fighting without let up ... I think Sentry stands zero chance of winning anything other than by bfr or some plot device.

Not a better way to put it. Good post.

Originally posted by janus77
case closed:

I like a debate, I don't mind an argument but, this subject is just ridiculous. the comic is definitive in that Sentry went all out, that Sentry poured all the strength/power he had into it... cutting loose.

this place is full of people with an intense agenda against a fictional character (Hulk), who have in the passed attempted to argue absurdities so as to dismiss or belittle the character's established, on-panel, feats.

as powersets go, having +infinite+ power/energy, pretty much trumps everything Sentry has. the only way Sentry could win, fighting smart, would be to stay out of range of Hulk.

though given 1) Hulk/Banner is a genius up there with Stark et al, 2) Hulk has range attacks that can affect an area the size of the continental shelf (and more), 3) that he cannot be killed or KO'd by ALL of Sentry's energies and 4) that he will regenerate from everything whilst fighting without let up ... I think Sentry stands zero chance of winning anything other than by bfr or some plot device.

cuz it says he let go makes him use all his powers? how so?

he just unleash his power without the concern of hurting anyone

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Meh. Sentry never wanted the fight because he knew he'd lose control. Once he decided to "play god," he decided to revel in it and was immediately intoxicated by the feeling of letting loose. He needed something to hit, a target to let loose his power on... but he wasn't exactly fighting Banner to defeat him.

And I think it's quite obvious that Sentry believed he could defeat Banner from his conversations with Stark and his last comment, "Goodbye, old friend," which indicates that he thought he was going to kill Banner. So he definitely did not go into the fight knowing he would lose or even considered Banner to be too much for him.

P.S. Dood! Resize is your friend!

Sentry wanted to "cut loose", to "let go", it wasn't that he wanted to fight Hulk but that he could fight Hulk without holding back.

look at what he's saying in the scan, he's actually revelling in the fact that he's totally lost control but, at the start he demonstrates a level of calculation - he explicitly states that Hulk is the only one that he can hit (all out).

I don't see Sentry intending to kill or even believing that he could kill Hulk, but I do see Sentry intending to really give everything he has, all that power that he's too scared to use in normal situations, and damn the consequences. I thought the "goodbye" thing was just him being pessimistic (which seems in character) about his own chances of survival.