-_-
That sucks ASS. Sidious and Plagueis are far more interesting characters than Luke "Overused" Skywalker. But I guess they don't want another Bane/Zannah-like series. I think that an excellent part of a Plaguies/Sidious novel is detailing the circumstances of Anakin's death and, perhaps, fleshing out Sidious' background. Maybe give him a reason for the intense hatred for the Jedi, other than simply being a Sith?
Oh, and Luceno is decent- but he's not the best Star Wars author around. I'd personally let Stover or Zahn handle a potential Plagueis novel- they can both make characters more interesting than Luceno.
Edit: LOL, me and Gideon said practically the same thing at the same time. I didn't even notice his post.
And how was Dark Rendezvous? I hadn't read it yet.
DR was pretty good. I actually like the CW-era novels a lot less than I used to, and prefer the RotS novel almost entirely. Weird, since I used to hate it with a burning passion.
And I'm interested in seeing Stover's take on Luke Skywalker - Traitor was the only decent NJO novel, sans the end of TUF, and he's definitely the best EU author around at the moment.
As for the Plagueis/Sidious novel, I would hate to see Palpatine turned into any sort of 'victim' character, and certainly don't want to learn too much about his younger years. Plagueis would be cool, but Sidious' apprenticeship shouldn't be explored too deeply, IMO.
It's part of his mystery, I guess.
So far, Revenge of the Sith was the most emotionally charged, thrilling EU novel I've read- but we can't credit that entirely to Stover, as Lucas did, after all, write the story of said novel. If I was to make a comparison of the novel vs. the movie, the novel would win on some points- such as it's depiction of the the badassness of Mace Windu, something that movie utterly failed to portray, and the way it made Dooku. I hated how he was killed so early, so pointlessly in the movie- the novel made him, somehow... more significant.
Also, since we are already completely off-topic and discussing Star Wars material, I'd like to ask a question- what's your favorite Star Wars movie? It always makes me rather interested to ask this question. The consensus seems to be Empire Strikes Back, but for me, it's the RotS Movie, which I find to be possibly the best piece of Star Wars around- while it's not exactly a perfect movie, it's about as good as Star Wars can get. Aside from being appropriately fast-paced and actually doing a surprisingly good job of showing the relationship between Anakin and Padme, it also has some of the best action sequences ever on film. The Jedi's death was, in my opinion, believable- that face Mundi made before he died just etches in my memory whenever I think 'RotS', lolz.
I rest my case. What's your opinions?
As a kid, I always the hated the sad endings, so Return of the Jedi took the cake. But now, I'd have to say Revenge of the Sith was the most entertaining and satisfying of the six. Dark as hell, insane action sequences, great CGI, and at some points actually sad.
Of course, it had some glaring flaws - ignoring the fact that Obi-Wan's lightsaber casts a shadow in the the duel with Dooku (minor, but a WTF moment for me), some of the dialogue was hideous. 'Hold me, Ani!'
Hell, even Ewan had a bad scene when Anakin departed for his 'glorious day with the politicians.' McDiarmid's face in the Mace duel was pretty much vomit-inducing, and the duel itself was pathetic. Like, ANH duel pathetic.
That said, I was pleased with the handling of Anakin's descent into darkness, and the new Vader's slaughter of the Jedi and the Separatist council was awesome (in a sick kind of way). Of course, Anakin vs. Obi-Wan was one of the best action scenes I've ever seen, both in dramatic content and plain fury, and Kenobi's breakdown at the end was much deserved and well-executed.
I agree on all points. Obi-Wan, in his scenes with the council, wasn't very interesting- however, Obi-Wan still remains my favorite Jedi of all time, thanks mainly to him displaying emotion. And wit. My god, "Not to worry. We're still flying half a ship." was classic. His scenes with Anakin were phenomenal- of worth mentioning are three scenes. The scene when he tells Anakin that the Chancellor is suspect- that moment was plainly eerie, for some reason... great score, great emotion. Great acting, too. The second is when Obi-Wan departs to kill GG- I mean, you know it's the last time they see each other, and their dialoge at that point is pure sad. Third is, of course, Obi-Wan's "You were the chosen one!". Saddest, most dramatic scene in Star Wars history. Absolutely sad.
In addition, Palpatine and Anakin had some amazing scenes- namely, the scene when he reveals himself to be Darth Sidious... that was, amazing. And the scene in the 'opera'. Amazing, too. It occured to me that many fans dislike how Vader was suddenly made more complex, less mysterious- on the contrary, in my opinion. In the OT, Vader was, for me, a badass Sith. But that's it. After the PT, he became one of the most amazing, believable Sith in history for me, and watching things like ESB suddenly takes a whole new meaning.
RotJ would actually rank pretty low in my tastes, actually. My least favorite Star Wars movie- INCLUDING the Jar-Jar tale. The ewoks were damned annoying, and it honestly seemed kiddy... and stupid. The only great thing I can say about is the final scene on the Death Star- Anakin's redemption, and Palpatine's death.
If I had to make a list of best to worst Star Wars movies:
1. Revenge of the Sith
2. Empire Strikes Back
3. Attack of the Clones and a New Hope (tie)
4. The Phantom Menace
5. Return of the Jedi
Originally posted by Gideon
The problem with the Legacy of the Force series is that it did not give us a truly formidable villain; the authors, rather than make Caedus a cunning or clever individual, decided (at the last minute) to cram him with all sorts of esoteric powers and abilities -- including the shatterpoint charism -- in an attempt to nullify his apparently overwhelming stupidity. That and the murders of Gilad Pellaeon and Mara Jade Skywalker were absolutely unnecessary; you only kill of two characters like that if their deaths mean something. The series was utter shit, so they died for nothing. Incidentally, they were the two most interesting characters alive at that point. I would have preferred that Leia died. Han and Leia are too old and too weak to be anything other than support, they need to be relegated to sideline duty or political action.What we need is a novel (I'll settle for a comic series... even though I despise comics) concerning Vergere's supposed allegiance to the Sith, studying of Count Dooku, attempted murder of Darth Sidious, and her subsequent failure and retreat into the Unknown Regions.
That would make for one hell of a book. Get writing.
Originally posted by Faunus
As a kid, I always the hated the sad endings, so Return of the Jedi took the cake. But now, I'd have to say Revenge of the Sith was the most entertaining and satisfying of the six. Dark as hell, insane action sequences, great CGI, and at some points actually sad.Of course, it had some glaring flaws - ignoring the fact that Obi-Wan's lightsaber casts a shadow in the the duel with Dooku (minor, but a WTF moment for me), some of the dialogue was hideous. 'Hold me, Ani!'
Hell, even Ewan had a bad scene when Anakin departed for his 'glorious day with the politicians.' McDiarmid's face in the Mace duel was pretty much vomit-inducing, and the duel itself was pathetic. Like, ANH duel pathetic.
That said, I was pleased with the handling of Anakin's descent into darkness, and the new Vader's slaughter of the Jedi and the Separatist council was awesome (in a sick kind of way). Of course, Anakin vs. Obi-Wan was one of the best action scenes I've ever seen, both in dramatic content and plain fury, and Kenobi's breakdown at the end was much deserved and well-executed.
You liked anakin's descent towards darkness? You mean the whole 30 seconds it took for him to get there?
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
You liked anakin's descent towards darkness? You mean the whole 30 seconds it took for him to get there?
No. It took him one and a half movies- the entirety of AotC and half of RotS. You see Anakin getting conflicted in the movie, being seducted by Palpatine- man, the guy has understandable- if selfish- motives for turning into the big meanie. Put yourself in his shoes. He feels everyone is holding him back, afraid of his power. Thanks to his friend the Chancellor, he gradually loses trust of the Jedi, eventually coming to the belief that they betrayed him. This is only helped by the fact that Palpatine constantly reassured and encouraged his power, while the Council did the opposite. Preventing him mastership, sending Obi-Wan to kill Grievous. Not to mention to top it off with how useless they are regarding words of advice to help save Padme, Anakin's forbidden wife, who he now believes is certainly going to die. And he can't really bear that, eh? And in the moment, he has to chose- the Jedi, big assholes who are trying to betray the republic and can't stop going off about how one shouldn't have any emotion and love, or the ability to save his wife from dying- and the man who was, along with Obi-Wan, his father figure. Unlike Obi-Wan, however, Palpatine never had a bad word to say about Anakin, making sure he had his affection all along.
See, the most unbelievable thing is that Anakin constantly thought he was doing the good thing. Saving his wife, ensuring security to the world- by taking a new 'take-charge' attitude, namely massacring anyone who stands in his way- and preventing the Republic from being taken over by the Jedi.
Sorry. I really can't see how Anakin's descent to the dark side was handled in '30 seconds'.
Luceno's Cloak of Deception is better than Labyrinth of Evil, a first-rate political thriller. He managed to portray the tragedy of Finis Valorum and Palpatine's manipulation of both him, the Jedi, and the whole Trade Federation directorate. So he certainly writes Palpatine well as a schemer, but the gentleman who wrote Dark Rendezvous managed to capture a tortured and twisted Count Dooku and an extremely psychologically vicious Palpatine, while not losing the extraordinary scheming capability. And pure evil is more than just "cold and scheming".
Dark Rendezvous is as good as the RotS novelization.
Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Awesome. Gonna get to reading it.And Gideon- what is your favorite Star Wars movie? Faunus and I both agree that it's RotS.
I like them all. Though I've seen AotC the most, and so I find it the most boring. And the podrace/Tatooine scenes in TPM were leeching in nature.
Originally posted by Master CrimzonAll of what you said is true, but imagine yourself as someone who appreciates the movies, but doesn't classify as a nerd. You know, someone who only watches the movies once or twice a year. That's how I personally determine the value in the films. Anakin's fall happened virtually instantaneously. He was all gung-ho about the "Jedi way" one moment and literally the next is agreeing to wiping out "every single Jedi, including your friend (father-figure, brother etc.) Obi-Wan Kenobi."
No. It took him one and a half movies- the entirety of AotC and half of RotS. You see Anakin getting conflicted in the movie, being seducted by Palpatine- man, the guy has understandable- if selfish- motives for turning into the big meanie. Put yourself in his shoes. He feels everyone is holding him back, afraid of his power. Thanks to his friend the Chancellor, he gradually loses trust of the Jedi, eventually coming to the belief that they betrayed him. This is only helped by the fact that Palpatine constantly reassured and encouraged his power, while the Council did the opposite. Preventing him mastership, sending Obi-Wan to kill Grievous. Not to mention to top it off with how useless they are regarding words of advice to help save Padme, Anakin's forbidden wife, who he now believes is certainly going to die. And he can't really bear that, eh? And in the moment, he has to chose- the Jedi, big assholes who are trying to betray the republic and can't stop going off about how one shouldn't have any emotion and love, or the ability to save his wife from dying- and the man who was, along with Obi-Wan, his father figure. Unlike Obi-Wan, however, Palpatine never had a bad word to say about Anakin, making sure he had his affection all along.See, the most unbelievable thing is that Anakin constantly thought he was doing the good thing. Saving his wife, ensuring security to the world- by taking a new 'take-charge' attitude, namely massacring anyone who stands in his way- and preventing the Republic from being taken over by the Jedi.
Sorry. I really can't see how Anakin's descent to the dark side was handled in '30 seconds'.
Most of us have discussed this and agree that the novelization's expansion makes for a much more believable descent. Palpatine actually took the time to sit and talk with Anakin before he informed Mace. He wanted Master-level to access to the holocrons in the novel, but sounded like a child in the film. There wasn't enough depth to the backstory of his fall.
Throw in a few pieces of stupid or silly-looking acting, and you've got a general audience who views the film as "a great sci-fi flick, but still pales compared to the OT."
But you're right about RoTJ, I would just add the space battle as one of its few highlights.
Originally posted by Tangible God
All of what you said is true, but imagine yourself as someone who appreciates the movies, but doesn't classify as a nerd. You know, someone who only watches the movies once or twice a year. That's how I personally determine the value in the films. Anakin's fall happened virtually instantaneously. He was all gung-ho about the "Jedi way" one moment and literally the next is agreeing to wiping out "every single Jedi, including your friend (father-figure, brother etc.) Obi-Wan Kenobi."Most of us have discussed this and agree that the novelization's expansion makes for a much more believable descent. Palpatine actually took the time to sit and talk with Anakin before he informed Mace. He wanted Master-level to access to the holocrons in the novel, but sounded like a child in the film. There wasn't enough depth to the backstory of his fall.
Throw in a few pieces of stupid or silly-looking acting, and you've got a general audience who views the film as "a great sci-fi flick, but still pales compared to the OT."
But you're right about RoTJ, I would just add the space battle as one of its few highlights.
Oh, I dunno. I actually think Hayden Christensen did a good job (!) of portraying Anakin's descent to the darkness. The dialoge was actually pretty good at these parts- I mean, yeah. One has to look a little more in-depth to see the full nature of Anakin's fall.
The novel obviously goes more in-depth, but it's a novel. What can you expect? It's also an awesome novel, at that. I have viewed the movie and novel as, overall, equal in quality most of the times.
And the general audience, from what I've seen, actually like the PT more thanks to its superior special effects and, overall, more accessible nature. I don't agree with that philosophy- although I actually think that PT and the OT are equal in equality.
I think a huge part of the reason that the OT is so much more popular among die hard fans is due to the fact that people can into the theaters expecting to be disappointed. They looked so carefully for all of the dialoge, acting, and such that they forgot to enjoy the movie- and have already decided, upon entrance, that nothing can compare to the Original Trilogy. Meh. That ruins the movies. And I gotta say that, all in all, I was highly satisfied by the Prequels.
Originally posted by Master CrimzonLol, I was just watching AOTC on TV earlier and said to my friend that Hayden actually does a bang-up job with Anakin, it's what Lucas tells him to do that makes some parts seem low-caliber.
Oh, I dunno. I actually think Hayden Christensen did a good job (!) of portraying Anakin's descent to the darkness. The dialoge was actually pretty good at these parts- I mean, yeah. One has to look a little more in-depth to see the full nature of Anakin's fall.The novel obviously goes more in-depth, but it's a novel. What can you expect? It's also an awesome novel, at that. I have viewed the movie and novel as, overall, equal in quality most of the times.
And the general audience, from what I've seen, actually like the PT more thanks to its superior special effects and, overall, more accessible nature. I don't agree with that philosophy- although I actually think that PT and the OT are equal in equality.
I think a huge part of the reason that the OT is so much more popular among die hard fans is due to the fact that people can into the theaters expecting to be disappointed. They looked so carefully for all of the dialoge, acting, and such that they forgot to enjoy the movie- and have already decided, upon entrance, that nothing can compare to the Original Trilogy. Meh. That ruins the movies. And I gotta say that, all in all, I was highly satisfied by the Prequels.
But yeah, the regular, non-nerd movie goer (the ones that actually know how to critique a movie, and not focus on the special effects) tend to complain about the lack of character analysis. It's a 2 and a 1/2 hour movie, I know you can only fit so much in--- but crikey it's a little sad that everyone agrees the book of the movie is held in higher esteem than the movie itself. Narration offers a lot I know, but the movie could have fit in more for Anakin's character. The general consensus is that his movie-incarnation is a whiny b*tch who got blindsided, whereas his novel-self is someone you can truly sympathize with and understand.
Oh, I dunno. I don't feel the novel to be superior at all to the novel- 'sides, you gotta look at some of the benefits of movies. Thrilling, intense action, dazzling visuals, acting, and an overall more engaging- if not quite as detailed an experience. I really don't think his movie self is annoying; I mean, in TPM, he was likeable. In AotC, I wanted to kill him. In the beginning of Revenge of the Sith, he was seriously a nice Jedi. For example; his conversation with Obi-Wan, him apologzing to him... sorry, lolz, I don't think someone needs to scream out something- like it is in the novel- for it to be understandable; Anakin became evil because of good reasons. Ironic, really.
Oh, and don't get me wrong- I like all Star Wars movies. But RotJ is simply, in my opinion, the worst one.