Palpatine vs Voldemort

Started by Rogue Jedi4 pages

For a person's ability to perform magic to be useful, a good deal of training is required. When 'wild,' typically with young and untrained children, it will still manifest itself subconsciously in moments of strong apprehension, fear, or anger. [2] For example, Harry Potter once made his hair grow back after a bad haircut, and, in anger, made his Aunt Marge inflate enormously. Whilst this reaction is almost always uncontrollable, Tom Marvolo Riddle, later known as Lord Voldemort, was able to "make things move without touching them, ... Make animals do what he wanted without training them, ... make bad things happen to people who annoy him, ... or 'make them hurt if I [he] want[s] to'" when he was a young child, apparently intentionally.[3]

Almost all magic is done with the use of a supporting tool or focus, typically a wand. On the subject of magic without the use of a wand, Rowling says:[4]

“ You can do unfocused and uncontrolled magic without a wand (for instance when Harry blows up Aunt Marge) but to do really good spells, yes, you need a wand. ”

A wizard or witch is only at their best when using their own wand. Throughout the series, it is evident that when using another's wand, one's spells are not as strong as they normally would be.

Lazy bastard. 😂

Originally posted by Man of Christ
just to clarify i saw in the movies that without a want voldemort had been possessing people, could he not do this to palp?
as he did to prof quail and potter?
Possess Palpatine? The very thought of that confuses and angers me.

Quail...Was a bumbling idiot. Potter actually expelled him, Palpatine can as well.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Possess Palpatine? The very thought of that confuses and angers me.

Quail...Was a bumbling idiot. Potter actually expelled him, Palpatine can as well.

You are confused, while me, I am crylaugh

If Voldy needs his wands to focus his magic powers and cast a successful magic spell, he needs his wand.

Palpy doesn't need a wand. He'll burn Voldy's ass with Force Lightning.

Is Evada Kedavra focused magic?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Is Evada Kedavra focused magic?

It has to be, since it is the deadliest magic spell. In my opinion.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Is Evada Kedavra focused magic?
Of course it is. It is the single strongest spell against a living thing in HP.

Force Lightning? Bah, why not use a Force Storm and such Voldemort in a wormhole?

well if it is focused magic he needs a wand.

Lightning to tha face.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Potter actually expelled him, Palpatine can as well.

Voldemort got the **** out of him because Harry is a beacon of love. He loves, is loved, and is full of sugar, spice, and everything nice. Palpatine's as much of a douche as Voldemort is, so I doubt that that particular defense will be available to him.

Voldemort's AK will own Palpatine, but Palpatine can also break Voldemort's wand and do all sorts of nasty shit to him. Then again, Voldemort can teleport.

Voldeport?

I think having a scenario where both of the combatants are without their primary weapon is just batshit stupid.

Of course, I think offering to different scenarios is stupid anyway, it inevitably gets confusing.

Originally posted by Gideon
Voldemort got the **** out of him because Harry is a beacon of love. He loves, is loved, and is full of sugar, spice, and everything nice. Palpatine's as much of a douche as Voldemort is, so I doubt that that particular defense will be available to him.

Voldemort's AK will own Palpatine, but Palpatine can also break Voldemort's wand and do all sorts of nasty shit to him. Then again, Voldemort can teleport.

True, but Palpatine is also much stronger in the mental area than Potter, and has mind powers as well like dominate mind(t3h mindtrick). I think his mind, will, and TP is strong enough to resist Voldemort.

Of course, Avada Kedavra would own Goddamn near anyone short of an immortal, but can he use it before Palpatine could Force Crush his ribcage, or some other bullshit way? Since Voldemort has no power over the force, he would be defenseless against it.

This is only the Movie Palpatine against the Movie Voldemort at there peaks isn't it?

And since movie palpatine has showed no defense against magic he is just as powerless against magic as Voldemort is against the force however I would say that Voldemort has a advance against the movie version, Voldemort can with a swing of his ward force palpatine to the ground (ore was it in the book (Book Number 4) he did that to harry?) and then Blast him, what is important for Voldemort is to either take out palpatine quickly ore get a protego spell up and running.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
True, but Palpatine is also much stronger in the mental area than Potter, and has mind powers as well like dominate mind(t3h mindtrick). I think his mind, will, and TP is strong enough to resist Voldemort.

I believe you're confusing the Imperius Curse and actual possession, both of which Voldemort is capable of. Harry resisted both attacks, one due to intense force of will and the other due to his innate ability to love, something Voldemort is incapable of and something that repulses him. Palpatine most certainly can resist the Imperius Curse, and I would say that he could do so in a much easier and effortless fashion than Potter. But I highly doubt even his considerable willpower would be enough to stop actual possession by Voldemort. However, if this were Return of the Jedi-era Palpatine, he has learned the "transfer and control of souls" technique that enabled him to survive the second Death Star's destruction and kill Imperial engineer Bevel Lemelisk (the designer of the first Death Star) and then subsequently transfer his spirit into a clone recepticle. Point being, if this is OT-era Palpatine, he could very well take control of Voldemort's spirit.

Of course, Avada Kedavra would own Goddamn near anyone short of an immortal, but can he use it before Palpatine could Force Crush his ribcage, or some other bullshit way? Since Voldemort has no power over the force, he would be defenseless against it.

Originally posted by Utrigita
This is only the Movie Palpatine against the Movie Voldemort at there peaks isn't it?

And since movie palpatine has showed no defense against magic he is just as powerless against magic as Voldemort is against the force however I would say that Voldemort has a advance against the movie version, Voldemort can with a swing of his ward force palpatine to the ground (ore was it in the book (Book Number 4) he did that to harry?) and then Blast him, what is important for Voldemort is to either take out palpatine quickly ore get a protego spell up and running.

The problem is that this isn't a clear cut fight. Voldemort, in the fifth Harry Potter movie, demonstrated a capacity for destruction that is easily on par with Palpatine's own. Consider their similar duels; Voldemort versus Dumbledore and Palpatine versus Yoda. Both were in an arena-esque environment and both involved manipulating the environment. Palpatine and Yoda demonstrate strength, speed, and reflexes well beyond Dumbledore or Voldemort. In sheer telekinesis, Palpatine and Yoda were capable of handling automobile sized Senate pods without difficulty (and both defied the law of physics and gravity when doing so), which is well beyond the telekinesis that Voldemort and Dumbledore exhibited. The problem is that Voldemort demonstrated the ability to apparate (to teleport) which would nullify long term speed advantages held by Palpatine; if Palpatine charges, Voldemort can just vanish. He can't compensate for the disparity in reflexes, however, and Palpatine remains quicker than Voldemort -- but outright speed will do him no good. Likewise, Voldemort's powers are from a magical basis; while Palpatine's mastery of the Force allows him a considerable arsenal, it cannot compete with the range and versatility of outright magic. Voldemort has a curse that, if it connects with Palpatine, will kill him. Of course, one could make the argument that if that happens, Palpatine can just possess Voldemort's body.

Concluding: Voldemort has a far greater range than Palpatine's telekinesis, Force lightning, and metaphysical attacks; he is capable of teleportation, which nullifies Palpatine's long term speed advantages and will allow room for the element of surprise; and he demonstrates raw power on par with Palpatine's in the Force, demonstrated in his environmentally destructive fight with Dumbledore. On the other hand, Palpatine's superior physical speed, strength, agility, and reflexes would allow him to dodge the Avada Kedavra curse handily; his superb and (as far as the movies are concerned) peerless precognition aren't infallible, but would likely allow him to detect where Voldemort might turn up, since this is a combat situation (Palpatine's precognition has only failed him in meditation, not combat); he is a cunning and clever fighter who manipulates the environment akin to Voldemort and does so on a destructive scale.

It could go either way. But Voldemort can only win by throwing everything and the kitchen sink at Palpatine and teleporting like a mynock out of hell. Attempting to possess Palpatine will be doomed to failure, and Palpatine is just as capable of throwing the environment at him as well.

Originally posted by Gideon
The problem is that this isn't a clear cut fight. Voldemort, in the fifth Harry Potter movie, demonstrated a capacity for destruction that is easily on par with Palpatine's own. Consider their similar duels; Voldemort versus Dumbledore and Palpatine versus Yoda. Both were in an arena-esque environment and both involved manipulating the environment. Palpatine and Yoda demonstrate strength, speed, and reflexes well beyond Dumbledore or Voldemort. In sheer telekinesis, Palpatine and Yoda were capable of handling automobile sized Senate pods without difficulty (and both defied the law of physics and gravity when doing so), which is well beyond the telekinesis that Voldemort and Dumbledore exhibited. The problem is that Voldemort demonstrated the ability to apparate (to teleport) which would nullify long term speed advantages held by Palpatine; if Palpatine charges, Voldemort can just vanish. He can't compensate for the disparity in reflexes, however, and Palpatine remains quicker than Voldemort -- but outright speed will do him no good. Likewise, Voldemort's powers are from a magical basis; while Palpatine's mastery of the Force allows him a considerable arsenal, it cannot compete with the range and versatility of outright magic. Voldemort has a curse that, if it connects with Palpatine, will kill him. Of course, one could make the argument that if that happens, Palpatine can just possess Voldemort's body.

Concluding: Voldemort has a far greater range than Palpatine's telekinesis, Force lightning, and metaphysical attacks; he is capable of teleportation, which nullifies Palpatine's long term speed advantages and will allow room for the element of surprise; and he demonstrates raw power on par with Palpatine's in the Force, demonstrated in his environmentally destructive fight with Dumbledore. On the other hand, Palpatine's superior physical speed, strength, agility, and reflexes would allow him to dodge the Avada Kedavra curse handily; his superb and (as far as the movies are concerned) peerless precognition aren't infallible, but would likely allow him to detect where Voldemort might turn up, since this is a combat situation (Palpatine's precognition has only failed him in meditation, not combat); he is a cunning and clever fighter who manipulates the environment akin to Voldemort and does so on a destructive scale.

It could go either way. But Voldemort can only win by throwing everything and the kitchen sink at Palpatine and teleporting like a mynock out of hell. Attempting to possess Palpatine will be doomed to failure, and Palpatine is just as capable of throwing the environment at him as well.

I agree entirely with the majority of this post, I also agree that it will be very close indeed however,

I must admit Gideon that I find the scenario where Voldemorts get possessed by Palpatine just as unlikely as I find Voldemort possessing Palpatine (if they works in the same manner which I isn't sure of)

As I see it Voldemort has a greater arsenal then Palpatine has, but that's based on the spells in the books.

Also he most likely dodge the Avada Kedavra agreed but can he dodge the Dolor spell that requires nothing except Voldemort pointing his staff towards Palpatine...

I assumed when it was said "both at their peaks", that the absolute strongest canon version of each character was to be used, which would be DE Palpatine.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
I assumed when it was said "both at their peaks", that the absolute strongest canon version of each character was to be used, which would be DE Palpatine.

no sir, as this is the movie versus forum so im using them at thier peaks in films.

Originally posted by Strangelove
I think having a scenario where both of the combatants are without their primary weapon is just batshit stupid.

Of course, I think offering to different scenarios is stupid anyway, it inevitably gets confusing.

its merely to test all areas for a fuller perspective

Question to all: in Harry Potter OTP (order of the Phoenix)

voldemort conjures a fire dragon and shoots it at dumbledore in thier duel, if he did this do palpatine, how could palpatine respond?

If Palpatine gives wizardman a blast of Force Lightning to tha face, how would wizardman respond?

If Palpatine force crushes wizardman's neck in a second, how would wizardman respond? Oh wait, he couldn't.

If we're going by movie versions, it seems like its a matter of who strikes first. However, Palps is alot more agile and could possibly evade some attacks.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
voldemort conjures a fire dragon and shoots it at dumbledore in thier duel, if he did this do palpatine, how could palpatine respond?

He certainly couldn't overpower or withstand it, but -- unlike Dumbledore -- Palpatine can use the Force to enhance his physical attributes well beyond human norm. He could probably run around or evade it, since he is (according to the novel) attributed the relative speed of "blur" to the most powerful Jedi Knight ever (Anakin Skywalker).