Punisher vs Joker

Started by psycho gundam36 pages

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Truth. But would a common knowledge Joker be flamboyant while confronting the threat of the Punisher? I think that's the only point where we differ. I think Joker knowing who his opponent is, would not act like he would if he were confronting Batman. Otherwise, I agree with everything else you say.
but again that begs the question:
what the heck is the joker going to do? frank can EASILY end this game of death with any thing in his weapons cache and if it's an all out war, who do you think has better connections?

imo it's a no-win scenario for the joker, he better find a way to become immortal asap.

^ I dunno. He could gas 10 square city blocks with his Joker gas. And then when Castle is preoccupied with saving innocents, he'd get his goons or himself to shoot Punisher.

NY is pretty big and a massive gas attack like that needs flawless planning and quite the bit of setting up.

if these two get the same knowledge of each other's usual avenue of attack, the punisher will be well aware of a gas attack since that is the joker's main thing. a couple anonymous phone calls to the police/fbi and ny is on defcon 4, especially after 9/11 the police presents will be huge.

then it's a sniper chess match. and frank still has battlevan.

^ What you state makes sense... but I might disagree with Joker's use of a mass gas attack as common knowledge for Punisher. After all... Batman doesn't evacuate Gotham when he discovers the Joker is loose...

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ What you state makes sense... but I might disagree with Joker's use of a mass gas attack as common knowledge for Punisher. After all... Batman doesn't evacuate Gotham when he discovers the Joker is loose...
maybe not massive but chemical warfare is his gag.

and batman doesn't have to evacuate gotham, he probably couldn't anyway if he tried, all you have to do is alert the government... especially in NY and it closes like a clam shell.
the police/federal agent presents will make joker's operation difficult, even if doesn't go for the wide scale attack.

I live in NYC. I don't have cable because my damn studio is too god damn expensive. Even with my 42" plasma Samsung. If CNN told everybody to god damn evacuate, I'd be stuck on KMC forums arguing about whether Punsiher beats Joker before I'd find out about the news that I needed to evacuate NYC.

So there!

All kidding aside. And really... I wasn't kidding. But all kidding aside... with a week's prep and Joker's apathy to innocents, I think he could draw out Punisher before Punisher could track down or draw out Joker.

well at least you will die with a smile on your face!

"they get a week to kill each other" not a week of prep.

on kmc the combatants get average knowledge of each other: joker is a sociopath that likes lethal laughing gas, and the punisher is a rogue vietnam veteran that is cleaning up the underworld, i guess there is more info but that is the essence of each character.

^ I've read more Punisher than I've read Joker. Granted, I've read more Batman then I've read Punisher. But not every Batman story includes Joker. I still think Joker would take this particular scenario.

While Castle would be running around trying to find out where Joker is by beating up and murdering the underworld... Joker could simply resort to mass murder via Joker gas and draw Punisher out. Since Joker has the advantage in drawing Punisher out to where he wants him, the equal prep time works in Joker's favor. Random encounter? I'd give Punisher a slight majority. But that's not the case here.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ I've read more Punisher than I've read Joker. Granted, I've read more Batman then I've read Punisher. But not every Batman story includes Joker. I still think Joker would take this particular scenario.

While Castle would be running around trying to find out where Joker is by beating up and murdering the underworld... Joker could simply resort to mass murder via Joker gas and draw Punisher out. Since Joker has the advantage in drawing Punisher out to where he wants him, the equal prep time works in Joker's favor. Random encounter? I'd give Punisher a slight majority. But that's not the case here.

agreed...even random encounter Joker might have the upper hand, the guy's always got something up his sleeve

well i guess we agree to disagree.

Joker wins. Too smart and a total sociopath.

no evidence or plan of action...*tsk tsk*

Punisher 10/10

IMO joker and the rest of the gotham guys are so used to just being slapped around a bit and then put into rehab (and then breaking out for the millionth time) that the moment they come across a guy who they realize isn't short of sticking up a m60 up their butts and pulling the trigger, they're just going to wet themselves. the only reason Joker actually seems "dangerous" is because Batman or anyone in Gotham won't do jack but slap him around and put him in arkham from which he'll break out of for being the "this week's special villain" for the next (annoyingly repetitive) story arc. i've read almost every arc of batman because i'm a big fan of his but i've gotta say, it gets highly repititive.

in terms of prep, joker has nothing going for him. maybe "acid pies, squirt guns and laughing gas" are DC's idea of "dangerous psychopath", but that isn't even in Frank's league. you're talking about a guy who has outclassed some of the best heroes and villains in marvel. with prep he had everything going his way even against Fisk and had immobalized almost all his routes. more than that, Fisk even asked for doom's help to take out frank and even that failed. so please don't tell me about survivability. i suggest you guys read a few punisher comics before you go around saying that "frank has no prep" or "frank is just gung-ho" or that "he isn't as survivable".

in terms of sheer experience and presence of mind, i'll just that he's survived confrontations against captain america and even "overratedrine" even though they were the ones who got the drop on him. he was able to detect spiderman even though spidey was in spying on him and he has gone so far as to foil DD's ambushes on more than one occassions. on top of that, why do people assume that Joker's goons are actually going to be something new for frank? he's taken on entire platoons on his own and has survived the like a million ambushes.

in terms of durability, he's gone in a h2h scenario with tombstone and survived. he's performed surgery on himself, survived fights with someone like The Russian on three occassions (cyborg Russian Ko'd spidey in two blows), fought and beat Barracuda h2h two out of three times (MAX, but still its not like Frank's doing something he hasn't been proven to do before).

in terms of brawling, he's humiliated DD and has gone toe-to-toe with him in h2h. in fact, frank doesn't even want to kill him. in fact, he's gone into a stalemate on more than one occassion...and in their ONLY "to-the-end" fight, Frank was the one who humiliated DD. all the Joker mostly does is runaway from a fight, or call Harley to back him up. and most importantly, Frank crippled Bullseye. and Bullseye>>Joker

there is nothing going for Joker. he's never faced someone who'd kill...and kill is an understatement when you see some of the ways Frank has killed people. the way he's going to tear through Joker is going to be fun to read.

speaking of which: i keep reading batman's "strength of character". for all my love and respect for bats, to me all that's strength of character only if you actually buy DC's half-assed pop philosphical BS.

he doesn't kill. wow...he only lets thousands of people die all the time and endangers the life of several people just cuz he can't get over the death of his parents who happened to be killed. the batman motto is simple: i don't kill. i just let them go after a while so they can endanger millions of people again so that i can keep my own comic running.

please.

~Sado
P.S.
"those who do not punish evil are willing it to continue"

and lastly:
"batman/punisher crossover2" also had batman literally come and save joker's life in the end. non-canon...probably not, because jean made reference to his original meeting with frank at one point in his career and frank made a reference to that also in this crossover. i'm assuming its canon, though i could be wrong.

either way, it does give a prespective. not only did Frank plough through all of joker's games, he had joker wetting his pants as he ran around like a sissy (as usual) only for frank to catch him.
and
hadn't it been for Bruce-i-dont-kill-i-just-hesitate-and-waste-time-and-hold-on-to-obselete-BS-ideas-of-justice-so-that-my-series-can-keep-going-for-another-50-years-Wayne, Frank would have blown his brains out. looking back at that picture joker looked like he was about to cry.

psycho? hah! DC hasn't met Frank.

The Punisher wins 10/10

~Sado

Originally posted by Sado22
and lastly:
"batman/punisher crossover2" also had batman literally come and save joker's life in the end. non-canon...probably not, because jean made reference to his original meeting with frank at one point in his career and frank made a reference to that also in this crossover. i'm assuming its canon, though i could be wrong.

either way, it does give a prespective. not only did Frank plough through all of joker's games, he had joker wetting his pants as he ran around like a sissy (as usual) only for frank to catch him.
and
hadn't it been for Bruce-i-dont-kill-i-just-hesitate-and-waste-time-and-hold-on-to-obselete-BS-ideas-of-justice-so-that-my-series-can-keep-going-for-another-50-years-Wayne, Frank would have blown his brains out. looking back at that picture joker looked like he was about to cry.

psycho? hah! DC hasn't met Frank.

The Punisher wins 10/10

~Sado

😮‍💨 Theres nothing else you can say...hell I was thinking of giving Joker the majority before that post, you just killed it. You are officially the number 1 Punisher fan.

Closing.....

Originally posted by psycho gundam
how?

Do you want me to list every single time that Joker has played with the Batman instead of killed him when he have had the chance? I can mention a few right away:

- Had Batman chained up above a sharkpool. Even though he had a rifle to put a bullet between Batman's eyes, he instead slowly allowed Batman to lower into the pool while Joker walked away. Batman of course escaped.

- He at one point had Batman pretty much suffer a brain meltdown, but instead of just putting it between his eyes, he started beating him up, playing around and delaying the "game"

- At one point, Joker watched from a screen Batman disarm a bomb that would go out by trigger. Yet, instead of pushing the button, Joker continued his game.

- Heck, there was a time when he thought Batman was dead and Joker actually held a funeral and mourned him 😐

Originally posted by psycho gundam
yeah well, that "strength of character" is a front if it stops you from killing a well know non-reformable sociopath for good. i mean, how many times can you put a guy in jail only for him to miraculously escape and endanger thousands again for eternity. frank rather cap him and move on to the next dirtbag.

castle simple realizes all violent criminals are trash so he puts them in the garbage.......batman should take notes.

frank doesnt hold a candle to bruce.

Joker.

Originally posted by Obsidian Fury
Do you want me to list every single time that Joker has played with the Batman instead of killed him when he have had the chance? I can mention a few right away:

- Had Batman chained up above a sharkpool. Even though he had a rifle to put a bullet between Batman's eyes, he instead slowly allowed Batman to lower into the pool while Joker walked away. Batman of course escaped.

- He at one point had Batman pretty much suffer a brain meltdown, but instead of just putting it between his eyes, he started beating him up, playing around and delaying the "game"

- At one point, Joker watched from a screen Batman disarm a bomb that would go out by trigger. Yet, instead of pushing the button, Joker continued his game.

- Heck, there was a time when he thought Batman was dead and Joker actually held a funeral and mourned him 😐

Yea, and how many times could Batman have killed Joker?

Originally posted by Mindset
Yea, and how many times could Batman have killed Joker?

Roughly just as many. You need to consider the fact, however, that Joker often has his "upper hand" before Batman has his. Batman often catches Joker AFTER having broken out of Joker's games.