Lady Shiva vs Wolverine

Started by Warrior1811 pages
Warrior18 Keyboard Warrior

Wolverine wins because of his physical stats and HF. I'm not saying he is less skilled than Shiva, nor am I saying she is less skilled than him. I don't think you can argue who is more skilled. To do so would be ridiculous assumption.

Metalmanx Illuminati Founder

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
And Wolverine's beaten the century (Milena?) old Angle of Death about a million times. Hell, he fought Lazaer and a clone of himself and won despite missing part of his soul.

He's stomped Chi into the ground (this alone is more impressive then anything Shiva has ever done)

Had Junzo (a guy who one shotted IF) running from him and using all his elemental powers to keep Wolverine at bay.

Gotten DD in a full nelson in three panels.

One shotted Crossbones.

Briefly stalemated Stick. Hell, Stick even praises Wolverine's abilities and he isn't exactly mister compliment.

Beaten Zartan while severally weakened from poison.

Consistently embarrassed the Silver Samurai.

Defeated the 10 reanimated corpses of the Japanese Deadliest Samurai.

And even though he was weaken and missing part of his soul he stomped Shingen into the ground the last time they fought.

He's even gotten the better of Ogun.

You just wouldn't know a good fighter if he smacked you up your thick skull.

Wolverine wins. However, I must agree with Starscream on some points here.

Without his healing factor and adamantium skeleton, Silver Samurai would've already killed Wolverine.

And wasn't Daredevil under the heavy influence of Typhoid Mary at the time when Wolvie full-nelsoned him? I believe he was.

Now don't get me wrong. Wolverine is an extremely skilled fighter. But you just can't truthfully say that he would have won all of his hand-to-hand fights if he didn't have his adamantium skeleton and healing factor.

Sado22 Restricted

and please don't spew that 'he's a master of all fighting forms' nonsense, cuz as far as I'm concerned, Logan only uses one form....the charging recklessly at his opponent with claws out approach...and it works for him because of his insane HF, otherwise, he'd long be dead

😆 😂 🤣
you forgot to mention the "world's biggest jobber aura"

BUSTER1 Senior Member

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Wolverine wins. However, I must agree with Starscream on some points here.

Without his healing factor and adamantium skeleton, Silver Samurai would've already killed Wolverine.

And wasn't Daredevil under the heavy influence of Typhoid Mary at the time when Wolvie full-nelsoned him? I believe he was.

Now don't get me wrong. Wolverine is an extremely skilled fighter. But you just can't truthfully say that he would have won all of his hand-to-hand fights if he didn't have his adamantium skeleton and healing factor.

Too true, I can't argue with that

llagrok Restricted

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Wolverine wins. However, I must agree with Starscream on some points here.

Without his healing factor and adamantium skeleton, Silver Samurai would've already killed Wolverine.

And wasn't Daredevil under the heavy influence of Typhoid Mary at the time when Wolvie full-nelsoned him? I believe he was.

Now don't get me wrong. Wolverine is an extremely skilled fighter. But you just can't truthfully say that he would have won all of his hand-to-hand fights if he didn't have his adamantium skeleton and healing factor.

I think that SS would've killed him even with a healing factor.

Sado22 Restricted

I think that SS would've killed him even with a healing factor.

probably.

Superherovandal CEO of BS Comics Inc.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Him being stronger, faster and more skilled doesn't help either. 🙂
Uh i'll give you the stronger, and a tiny bit faster. but skilled nah-uh. Give her all of Wolvie's super-human abilities and she'd do anything he'd do faster, better, and look smarter doing it.

jinzin Senior Member

Originally posted by Starscream M
and all that proves what?

that Logan's claws and adamantium skeleton and insane HF are tremendous clutches.

For god's sake, give my adamantium skeleton, and razor sharp claws, and a godlike HF, and I could take most of those guys down as well.

It certainly doesn't prove that he is anywhere superior in SKILL to lady shiva.

and I'm not thickheaded, you're just delusional.

You're right, you're not thick headed, you're downright ignorant. Delusional? What's delusional about anything he said? Wolverine is one of the most skilled fighters in Marvel, or I wouldn't see much reason for Marvel to keep stating that he was.
Christ, stop talking out of your ass hole. Let's go over some facts rom those examples.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
And Wolverine's beaten the century (Milena?) old Angle of Death about a million times. Hell, he fought Lazaer and a clone of himself and won despite missing part of his soul.

Wolverine fought both an Angel (Who doctor Strange flat out said was/is the most skilled opponent Wolverine's ever faced) and his clone at the same time. He didn't take one hit, he disarmed the angel and used his sword to cut his clone to peices. His claws were useless against his clone because he was wearing Adamantium armor, so he had to use the angelic sword.
Everytime he fought Azreal in the afterlife, he didn't have a strong HF to do it, if he took a single mortal hit, he was done for, which is EXACTLY what happened the one time that Azreal DID hit him with a decent shot. But how many other times did he defeat the Angel? Tons... But you could have done just as well as that right Masterbruce? Because what Wolverine did had nothing to do with fighting ability. 🙄

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
He's stomped Chi into the ground (this alone is more impressive then anything Shiva has ever done)

Wolverine didn't even use his claws or his HF to do this? He simply outfought Chi to the point that he pinned him. Chi even flat out states that he's rarely seen one so skilled as Logan.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Had Junzo (a guy who one shotted IF) running from him and using all his elemental powers to keep Wolverine at bay.

The guy treated IF like a child, and one shotted Luke Cage unconscious, he wasn't even able to use the Iron Fist on Logan due to the fast paced attack Logan was engaging in.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Gotten DD in a full nelson in three panels.

Speaks for itself. No HF or claws required.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
One shotted Crossbones.

read above.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Briefly stalemated Stick. Hell, Stick even praises Wolverine's abilities and he isn't exactly mister compliment.

Once again, no claws, no HF, but heck you coulda done it right Masterbruce?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Beaten Zartan while severally weakened from poison.

I'm sure you could do this as well since it'd take no skill whatsoever.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Consistently embarrassed the Silver Samurai.
A guy who's put Spiderman on the receiving end three times and still couldn't touch Logan till he started unveiling secrets about Logan's past. Yup, damn that HF and claws. Helping Logan to avoid SS's sword strikes like that.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Defeated the 10 reanimated corpses of the Japanese Deadliest Samurai.

Aside from their skill, they were suped up zombies, only went down with a head shot. Logan took every one ot them down with nothing more than a couple nicks in his uni. Guess you could have just as well with HF and no skill right?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
And even though he was weaken and missing part of his soul he stomped Shingen into the ground the last time they fought.

He's even gotten the better of Ogun.

Also speak for themselves, but you know better right Masterbruce?

jinzin Senior Member

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Wolverine wins. However, I must agree with Starscream on some points here.

Without his healing factor and adamantium skeleton, Silver Samurai would've already killed Wolverine.


In their first fight I suppose perhaps you're right.
Second fight, he was dodging everything Samurai threw his way until Samurai started telling him secrets to his past.
The second example is arguable based on the conversation they were having on how surprised logan was or wasn't based on the Muramasa secret. But it's still an incredible display of skill on his part.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
And wasn't Daredevil under the heavy influence of Typhoid Mary at the time when Wolvie full-nelsoned him? I believe he was.

No. He didn't even know what was going on when he divebombed Logan from three stories up.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Now don't get me wrong. Wolverine is an extremely skilled fighter. But you just can't truthfully say that he would have won all of his hand-to-hand fights if he didn't have his adamantium skeleton and healing factor.
Considering that he didn't have to resort to an HF in most of those battles excludng the first SS one, and the ones where he did were because he was being generous with no clawed punches to begin with, yes we most certainly can.

Blax_Hydralisk Restricted

Originally posted by Starscream M

For god's sake, give my adamantium skeleton, and razor sharp claws, and a godlike HF, and I could take most of those guys down as well.

haermm

Phantom Zone Junior Member

Originally posted by jinzin

Wolverine fought both an Angel (Who doctor Strange flat out said was/is the most skilled opponent Wolverine's ever faced) and his clone at the same time.

Hmmm Dr Strange met alot of Wolverine enemies or opponents?

Originally posted by jinzin

He didn't take one hit, he disarmed the angel and used his sword to cut his clone to peices. His claws were useless against his clone because he was wearing Adamantium armor, so he had to use the angelic sword.
Everytime he fought Azreal in the afterlife, he didn't have a strong HF to do it, if he took a single mortal hit, he was done for, which is EXACTLY what happened the one time that Azreal DID hit him with a decent shot. But how many other times did he defeat the Angel? Tons... But you could have done just as well as that right Masterbruce? Because what Wolverine did had nothing to do with fighting ability. 🙄

Oh ok so lets see...that means that the clone was more skillful than Stick due to what Dr Strange said? So because Wolverine beat this guy that means he could stomp Stick or Cap in h2h?

Originally posted by jinzin

Wolverine didn't even use his claws or his HF to do this? He simply outfought Chi to the point that he pinned him. Chi even flat out states that he's rarely seen one so skilled as Logan.

Yeah i'll give you that one, but you really think if they fought again the same thing would happen?

Originally posted by jinzin

The guy treated IF like a child, and one shotted Luke Cage unconscious, he wasn't even able to use the Iron Fist on Logan due to the fast paced attack Logan was engaging in.

Yeah and I dont think Wolverine hit him either. Again it was stated that IF let his emotions get in the way of his h2h.

Originally posted by jinzin

Speaks for itself. No HF or claws required.

Again DD was distracted when he found out that the girl was typhiod mary didnt you use this same excuse when Wolverine fought Silver Samurai? Oh and how does putting DD in full nelson mean that he won the fight, DD has put Punisher in a full nelson many a time and hes got out, we just dont assume that Wolverine would have won the fight.

Originally posted by jinzin

read above.

Ok but im pretty sure his adamantuim fists would have helped.

Originally posted by jinzin

Once again, no claws, no HF, but heck you coulda done it right Masterbruce?

He stalemated Stick....how do you stalemate somebody whos not even trying to fight you? Right so Stick wasnt trying to kill him.....wasnt trying to hurt him....so what does that prove? Doesnt prove hes btter than DD doesnt prove hes better than Stick.

Originally posted by jinzin

A guy who's put Spiderman on the receiving end three times and still couldn't touch Logan till he started unveiling secrets about Logan's past. Yup, damn that HF and claws. Helping Logan to avoid SS's sword strikes like that.

Wait a minute didnt something similar happen to DD when he was fighting Wolverine? Oh yeah and Shang Chi has easily evaded SS attacks before.

Originally posted by jinzin

Aside from their skill, they were suped up zombies, only went down with a head shot. Logan took every one ot them down with nothing more than a couple nicks in his uni. Guess you could have just as well with HF and no skill right?

Ok does that prove his better than DD, Cap, Black Panther etc? Nope.

Originally posted by jinzin

Also speak for themselves, but you know better right Masterbruce?

......and if he didnt have a HF the wound in his eye would have ended the fight. 😐

jinzin Senior Member

Oh hey ZONE! I was wondering when you were gonna show up and argue with some Wolverine supporters just for the sake of it using some retarded ass arguments! 😱

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Hmmm Dr Strange met alot of Wolverine enemies or opponents?
Aside from an obvious answer like.. YES....
I'm just gonna assume you missed out when he used all the knowledge of the universe to deal with a gen toting Warlock.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Oh ok so lets see...that means that the clone was more skillful than Stick due to what Dr Strange said? So because Wolverine beat this guy that means he could stomp Stick or Cap in h2h?

And once again flaunting off you're reading disabilities in full form. THE ANGEL was more skillful than anyone Logan's met.. why? Because he's a higher being who's lived longer than the entirety of the human race with the sole purpose of kicking asses. 😐

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yeah i'll give you that one, but you really think if they fought again the same thing would happen?

Do you feel that asking me the same questions again over and over and over but in different threads is going to derive from me a different answer, I wouldn't be surprised if you do since you're.. well... bat shit crazy.. but I'll just tell you what I told you the last time you asked me this two days ago... Yes, Chi might not get AS handled but he'd still lose.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yeah and I dont think Wolverine hit him either. Again it was stated that IF let his emotions get in the way of his h2h.

Wolverine had at least an oppurtunity to do so with a front lepel grap when Junzo DID bust out the Iron Fist.
Again, talking in circles like a crazy person isn't going to validate non-points anymore than they did 2 days ago.

What was IF's excuse the 2n'd time he got handled? Or Luke Cages?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Again DD was distracted when he found out that the girl was typhiod mary didnt you use this same excuse when Wolverine fought Silver Samurai? Oh and how does putting DD in full nelson mean that he won the fight, DD has put Punisher in a full nelson many a time and hes got out, we just dont assume that Wolverine would have won the fight.

Heard it from you about 2 dozen times. Doesn't make it anymore true. Wolverine was blindsided by DD from 3 stories up. In fact, Wolverine had been trick-attacked by Mary, snuck attacked by a friend of hers, interrupted by Vengeance, AND divebombed by DD the whole time he was running after Mary that night. Wolverine had more to worry about was blindsided first and still easily put DD in a full nelson. Apparently you think DD's years of experience since childhood, skill enough to fight competatively with Cap, focus enough to land bullseyes on top of one another, and RADAR SENSE go out the fu*kin window as soon as he learns that a person who exibits multiple personalities develops a new one. Shows how much credit you give Daredevil. Shows how inept you are too. And yes putting someone in a full nelson is indeed a sign of superiority, with Logan's strength snapping his neck would be a triffle at that point.

Meanwhile I already admitted that the Silver Samurai feat is arguable. The difference? DD wasn't dodging everything Wolverine could throw his way before being put into a full Nelson, and Wolverine actually flat out states that What Silver Samurai said was largely surprising. In spite of that, and the fact that I said it's up for debate, you continue to argue.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Ok but im pretty sure his adamantuim fists would have helped.

More than Cap's shield?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
He stalemated Stick....how do you stalemate somebody whos not even trying to fight you? Right so Stick wasnt trying to kill him.....wasnt trying to hurt him....so what does that prove? Doesnt prove hes btter than DD doesnt prove hes better than Stick.

He WAS trying to hit him, you have NO idea whether or not he was trying to hurt him. The fact that stick has had little to no care for students like DD or Elektra while training under him in such fashion leads one to believe that he wouldn't change his heart for Wolverine's well being. 😐
Again, I defy you to bring me an example of someone else doing better. And, you don't have to be out for the kill to display skill against another skilled opponent. Of course giving how completely ignorant you are about how the world works I wouldn't expect you to know that. How do you think sparring works? Or is that not a testiment to one's skill... Way to miss the point.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Wait a minute didnt something similar happen to DD when he was fighting Wolverine? Oh yeah and Shang Chi has easily evaded SS attacks before.

When? And even if Chi has, that somehow detracts from the fact that it takes a considerable amount of skill to do it? Uh no... An the fact that you think it does only shows how you're only here for argument's sake, you're a baiting, trolling, idiot.
And NO nothing similar happened with Wolverine vs. DD... There was not panel after panel of DD avoiding Logan's blows before being caught after a surprise.
DD divebombs Logan who immediately kicks Matt in the head, they clentch and DD throws up a side kick that Wolverine blocks while sidestepping behind DD for the nelson. Even when you think DD was oh so surprised he was throwing an offensive maneuver and he got outfought. But anything to discredit Logan right? No matter how foolish it makes you look. 😐

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Ok does that prove his better than DD, Cap, Black Panther etc? Nope.

😕 That wasn't even the argument. The point was that it's CERTAINLY a display of skill, that HF had no contribution to it, so it HAD to be skill. GOD YOU ARE SO FU*KIN INEPT IT'S UNREAL... You can't be this damn dumb! You can't be! It's impossible Alfhiem.... 😐

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
......and if he didnt have a HF the wound in his eye would have ended the fight. 😐
WHAT? how in the bloody hell did you come to that conclusion? If he didn't have an HF he wouldn't have a right eye, it wouldn't have ended the fight, it would have robbed Logan of one eye for the rest of the fight/his life, and since the rest of the fight only lasted a panel or two after that, that's exactly what happened. He still won, and would have regardless of HF... 😐

Again, you can't be that stupid, you're just trying to get a rise out of Wolverine supporters right? That's it right? I mean, that would be the only reason you would post shit that makes you look this idiotic...

iceman24567 Senior Member

If they had the same stats i think Shiva would win but this fight is not in her favor at all.

Phantom Zone Junior Member

Originally posted by jinzin

Aside from an obvious answer like.. YES....
I'm just gonna assume you missed out when he used all the knowledge of the universe to deal with a gen toting Warlock.

I tell you what prove that Dr Strange knows Cap, Sticks martial art skill in-depth.

Originally posted by jinzin

And once again flaunting off you're reading disabilities in full form. THE ANGEL was more skillful than anyone Logan's met.. why? Because he's a higher being who's lived longer than the entirety of the human race with the sole purpose of kicking asses. 😐

Its obvoulsy bs because if that were the case then he could defeat Cap, DD etc without being hit and thats obvoulsy not the case.

Originally posted by jinzin

Do you feel that asking me the same questions again over and over and over but in different threads is going to derive from me a different answer, I wouldn't be surprised if you do since you're.. well... bat shit crazy.. but I'll just tell you what I told you the last time you asked me this two days ago... Yes, Chi might not get AS handled but he'd still lose.

Yes 2 days ago were the thread got closed and I couldnt reply.

Originally posted by jinzin

Wolverine had at least an oppurtunity to do so with a front lepel grap when Junzo DID bust out the Iron Fist.

Are you assuming things again, did you see how Junzo blocked Wolverine attempt to cut him with the claws?
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/906/ironfistjuno6im9.jpg

Originally posted by jinzin

Again, talking in circles like a crazy person isn't going to validate non-points anymore than they did 2 days ago.

Again thread got closed...for spite. 😂

Originally posted by jinzin

What was IF's excuse the 2n'd time he got handled? Or Luke Cages?

On both ocassions IF knew that Junzo had kidnapped Misty and had ripped out her arm. So yeah the excuse applies to both cirumstances

Originally posted by jinzin

Heard it from you about 2 dozen times. Doesn't make it anymore true. Wolverine was blindsided by DD from 3 stories up. In fact, Wolverine had been trick-attacked by Mary, snuck attacked by a friend of hers, interrupted by Vengeance, AND divebombed by DD the whole time he was running after Mary that night. Wolverine had more to worry about was blindsided first and still easily put DD in a full nelson. Apparently you think DD's years of experience since childhood, skill enough to fight competatively with Cap, focus enough to land bullseyes on top of one another, and RADAR SENSE go out the fu*kin window as soon as he learns that a person who exibits multiple personalities develops a new one. Shows how much credit you give Daredevil. Shows how inept you are too. And yes putting someone in a full nelson is indeed a sign of superiority, with Logan's strength snapping his neck would be a triffle at that point.

Meanwhile I already admitted that the Silver Samurai feat is arguable. The difference? DD wasn't dodging everything Wolverine could throw his way before being put into a full Nelson, and Wolverine actually flat out states that What Silver Samurai said was largely surprising. In spite of that, and the fact that I said it's up for debate, you continue to argue.

The thread was closed! I didn't bother to read your response. I dunno still sounds like your trying to make excuses though, you're still trying to imply that Wolverine stated that what SS said was suprising but ignoring the fact that DD was still suprised despite the excuses you're making. If its arguable then stop using it as an example.

Please stop giving Wolverine the benefit of the doubt you dont bloody well know wether he would have broken his neck. Hell DDs got Frank in full-nelsons before he still got out of them.

Originally posted by jinzin

More than Cap's shield?

I dont remeber Cap hitting him with his shield the first time, maybe he did the second time.

Originally posted by jinzin

He WAS trying to hit him, you have NO idea whether or not he was trying to hurt him. The fact that stick has had little to no care for students like DD or Elektra while training under him in such fashion leads one to believe that he wouldn't change his heart for Wolverine's well being. 😐

He obvoulsy wasn't trying his best! I didnt say he wasnt trying to hurt him he obvoulsy wasnt trying to SERIOULSY hurt him ie put him in intensive care.

Hell remember when Wolverine tried to grab Spiderman in Secret Wars...your response was....

Originally posted by jinzin

Again, I defy you to bring me an example of someone else doing better. And, you don't have to be out for the kill to display skill against another skilled opponent. Of course giving how completely ignorant you are about how the world works I wouldn't expect you to know that. How do you think sparring works? Or is that not a testiment to one's skill... Way to miss the point.

Im not bringing anything because it doesnt prove that hes better than any top tier martial artist . Hell Spiderman might even be able to dodge a non-bloodlusted Stick.

Originally posted by jinzin

When? And even if Chi has, that somehow detracts from the fact that it takes a considerable amount of skill to do it? Uh no... An the fact that you think it does only shows how you're only here for argument's sake, you're a baiting, trolling, idiot.
And NO nothing similar happened with Wolverine vs. DD... There was not panel after panel of DD avoiding Logan's blows before being caught after a surprise.
DD divebombs Logan who immediately kicks Matt in the head, they clentch and DD throws up a side kick that Wolverine blocks while sidestepping behind DD for the nelson. Even when you think DD was oh so surprised he was throwing an offensive maneuver and he got outfought. But anything to discredit Logan right? No matter how foolish it makes you look.

*sigh* Yes the examples are similar they both got suprised by what somebody said, stop making excuses you hypocrite.

Originally posted by jinzin

😕 That wasn't even the argument. The point was that it's CERTAINLY a display of skill, that HF had no contribution to it, so it HAD to be skill. GOD YOU ARE SO FU*KIN INEPT IT'S UNREAL... You can't be this damn dumb! You can't be! It's impossible Alfhiem.... 😐

I dont care I thought id throw that in just in case.

Originally posted by jinzin

WHAT? how in the bloody hell did you come to that conclusion? If he didn't have an HF he wouldn't have a right eye, it wouldn't have ended the fight, it would have robbed Logan of one eye for the rest of the fight/his life, and since the rest of the fight only lasted a panel or two after that, that's exactly what happened. He still won, and would have regardless of HF... 😐

Ok lets try this again......when.....wolverine....didnt...have....his....HF.....did ....you ....see...how...much....pain...he...was...in...when...het ...got...stabbed...in...the...foot. Getting your eye slashed is considerably more painful than getting satbbed in the foot, it would have seriously hindered his ability to fight.

Originally posted by jinzin

Again, you can't be that stupid, you're just trying to get a rise out of Wolverine supporters right? That's it right? I mean, that would be the only reason you would post shit that makes you look this idiotic...

Its just that you're an obnoxious hypocrite who is incapable of being objective. Thankfully some people in the Blade vs Cap thread and Wolverine h2h gauntlet saw this. If I can irritate you through legitimate debate then I will

Phantom Zone Junior Member

LOL just looked at the scana again. Wolverine won teh fought due to his claws again.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v700/dprfla/wolvievsShang2.jpg

If he hadnt had the claws the fight would have kept going on, also Wolverine HF alsp helps him take damage that Shang gives him.

That certainly doent prove that he can beat Shang in h2h. Blowing things out of proportion again. Also im pretty sure that Shang has fought people like Wolverine before was is the writer trying to make out he hasn't?

The Pict Defender Of The Faith

Wolverine every time, Shiva can't put him down.
I think the whole who's more skilled argument is somewhat irrelevant. They both are expert martial artists and know so many fighting styles that any confrontation between them would be decided by other factors (That's if Wolverine was a human)

Phantom Zone Junior Member
Originally posted by The Pict

I think the whole who's more skilled argument is somewhat irrelevant. They both are expert martial artists and know so many fighting styles that any confrontation between them would be decided by other factors (That's if Wolverine was a human)

I know and I dont care.

carnage52 Restricted

Originally posted by Sado22
😆 😂 🤣
you forgot to mention the "world's biggest jobber aura"
no batmans is still bigger than wolverines.

jinzin Senior Member

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I tell you what prove that Dr Strange knows Cap, Sticks martial art skill in-depth.

Doc's worked with Cap before, Doc's worked with DD before, the man was able to see in depth play by play into Wolverine's past to see the battle first hand, he's able to account things that take place in the past, in the future, accross the MU, and in different planes of reality, he's used spells that have given him intimate knowledge of the MU, he's a well versed member of the Illuminate, he's able to use spells that can tell him the most intimate secrets of a hero/villain at nothing more than a request, but in spite of all that, in spite of the likelyhood that he'd know more about Cap's fighting ability than you, more about Cap's fighting ability than ME, or the facts that the story was clearly supposed to present Azrael as what he was stated to be, or the common sense of him being a higher level being who's been alive longer than the human race has existed for the sole purpose of fighting/killing... You'll still continue to argue... that is after all what you do isn't it?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Its obvoulsy bs because if that were the case then he could defeat Cap, DD etc without being hit and thats obvoulsy not the case.

Obviously? He's fought Cap weakened and being surprise attacked repeatedily. He's fought DD being blindsided and mindcontrolled. He's faired well on all occasions. And his ability to beat Az doesn't mean he's untouchable, nor does it detract from other people's fighting ability, but it DOES show a massive amount of skill on his part.
OF COURSE anything that shows Wolverine as a skilled character is BS according to you why wouldn't it be? 🙄

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yes 2 days ago were the thread got closed and I couldnt reply.

What does THAT have to do with anything? You don't need to reply to understand my answer. You asked a question I answered it, you can go back and still look at the answer, no reply necessary, so why ask the question again? You CAN NOT be this dumb ALF... 😐

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Are you assuming things again, did you see how Junzo blocked Wolverine attempt to cut him with the claws?
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/906/ironfistjuno6im9.jpg

That's not even the page I referenced. 🤨
The NEXT PAGE Junzo whips out the IF and Wolverine grabs him by the collar at which point J had to go in the defensive to avoid being skewered. He was fighting a completely defensive battle, more than Cage or Fist can say.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Again thread got closed...for spite. 😂

SO.... WHAT?
What does that have to do with anything? It doesn't make your misinterpretation and neglect of the events being discussed any more valid. Nice red herring though.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
On both ocassions IF knew that Junzo had kidnapped Misty and had ripped out her arm. So yeah the excuse applies to both cirumstances

No it doesn't.... 😐
One occasion IF attacked out of base reaction. The other was after he had a couple minutes to compose himself and assess the situation he got HANDLED both times. You're just pulling shit out of your ass to rob Wolverine of any credability like you always do. 😐
Which is why you're a fool.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
The thread was closed! I didn't bother to read your response. I dunno still sounds like your trying to make excuses though, you're still trying to imply that Wolverine stated that what SS said was suprising but ignoring the fact that DD was still suprised despite the excuses you're making. If its arguable then stop using it as an example.
Please stop giving Wolverine the benefit of the doubt you dont bloody well know wether he would have broken his neck. Hell DDs got Frank in full-nelsons before he still got out of them.

I suppose I should rob him the benefit of the doubt like you do instead?
Uh, no, it doesn't sound like I'm making excuses mister "DD was surprised even though he surprise attacked Logan out of nowhere!" what it DOES sound like is that I read the story.. Like I usually do, which is why I understand context, and why you look foolish in comparison.

I ALREADY said the SS feat is arguable 3 times now, what part of that are you not coming to terms with? There's major differences, like DD on the offensive when he was "surprised"... 🙄
And DD and Punisher are close in terms of strength, Punisher seems to be a bit bigger/broader to boot. Wolverine's quite stronger than Matt. 😐

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I dont remeber Cap hitting him with his shield the first time, maybe he did the second time.

Fought more than twice, and Crossbones hasn't been knocked out by a shield hit, he was one shotted by Logan, that's impressive, and at least SOME indicator of skill.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
He obvoulsy wasn't trying his best! I didnt say he wasnt trying to hurt him he obvoulsy wasnt trying to SERIOULSY hurt him ie put him in intensive care.

And if he was, he might have been bererkered out on and beaten to a pulp like ogun was.
If's and buts.
On the other hand I'll ask again, do you think sparring has nothing to do with skill? Do you think that display was NOT a display of skill? Can you find someone else doing better?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Hell remember when Wolverine tried to grab Spiderman in Secret Wars...your response was....
My response was what?
There's a difference between getting handled when you're trying to capture an opponent being the definitive focus of your capabilities even though it's contradicted by direct evidence multiples of times and two skilled fighters sparring eachother, supported by loads of evidence... But you don't care anything about context do ya Kotex?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Im not bringing anything because it doesnt prove that hes better than any top tier martial artist . Hell Spiderman might even be able to dodge a non-bloodlusted Stick.
You're not bringing up anything because you don't have a lick of proof to support your ass as usual. Spiderman may very well be able to dodge a bloodlusted Stick too, the difference between that hypothetical and Wolverine's feat is that Spiderman's would be against a consistency of evidence. Wolverine's isn't... but of course you wouldn't recognize that when you don't even think Wolverine's a skilled fighter to begin with? Why? Because you're a fool.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
*sigh* Yes the examples are similar they both got suprised by what somebody said, stop making excuses you hypocrite.
There's nothing hypocritical about it. It's just you ignoring context like an idiot, like you always do.

Unless you have phantom scans of DD dodging Wolverine with a smile on his face panel after panel before he got "surprised" or DD stopped fighting for a moment when he was "surprised" Oh that's right! That didn't happen... DD was immediately kicked in the head for his surprise attack and then handled while trying to take the offensive. They're not the same and I already said SS was up for debate. You're arguing for arguments sake and losing horribly.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I dont care I thought id throw that in just in case.

Just in case WHAT?
No one brought up being better than Panther or Cap or anything like that, just that it IS indeed a massive display of skill. You're immediate retort was so off base that it doesn't even have a place in the same discussion. You "threw it in" because you're a fool.

jinzin Senior Member

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Ok lets try this again......when.....wolverine....didnt...have....his....HF.....did ....you ....see...how...much....pain...he...was...in...when...het ...got...stabbed...in...the...foot. Getting your eye slashed is considerably more painful than getting satbbed in the foot, it would have seriously hindered his ability to fight.

Okay let's try this again..... Wolverine continued to fight against Lady Deathstrike, against OMEGA F*CKING RED! And hold his own in spite of injuries, he then continued to fight Sabretooth with those same injuries AND WIN....

Lets review... Does the HF help his pain tolerance?
NO:
Rogue has his HF it doesn't help with the pain:
Rogues body starts taking on the physical characteristics of verious people she's toched throughout the years. She formulates Wolverine's claws and tells him that it's the worst pain she's ever felt; We find that Wolverine ALWAYS has to endure unbelievable pain with his claws and his HF is always working on the cuts they make inside his arms as a result of them being sheathed.
1. http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/...lawshurthp7.jpg
2. http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/...awshurt2cr6.jpg

WITH OUT HIS HF HE STILL:
Even without a healing factor and inhibited by admantium posioning, Wolverine continues to struggle after being cattle prodded with enough volts to aledgedly put down an elepthant; actually it says a whole heard:
1. http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/5641/shockhl0.jpg
2. http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/8854/shock2qr3.jpg

And here, not only does Wolverine state his HF has no bearing on pain tolerance, he actually says it makes pain WORSE when he starts regrowing damage:

Once again, trying to insinuate you know more about Wolverine than high level Wolverine fans.
Once again.....
you're a fool..

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Its just that you're an obnoxious hypocrite who is incapable of being objective. Thankfully some people in the Blade vs Cap thread and Wolverine h2h gauntlet saw this. If I can irritate you through legitimate debate then I will
I'm perfectly capible of being objective. It's one of the reasons I take CONTEXT into consideration. 🙂 Try it sometime.

Some people? OneDumb threw a ***** fit, and Snoop keeps reading into more arguments than I'm making... Do I need to reiderate how many people think you're a fool?