The Into The Red Zone issue shows Cyke and Sabes squaring off a few times...
- The first one in the appartment Jinzin is correct that Sabes manages to dodge Cyke's blasts and then grab his face. But if memory serves me correctly (and it doesn't always), Scott was wearing his glasses, NOT his visor. I'm pretty sure i'm right in saying this as i remember him saying to Bobby earlier, "Please, it's hard enough pencil beaming my blasts to pop the lock". So you could argue Scott doesn't have the instant blast effect that his visor grants him...ergo there is a visible delay in him getting his hand to his face to pull off his glasses. Sabes has ample time to dodge here.
- Then there is the time where Scott intervenes in the fight between Sabes and Beast. Can't really say much here....Sabes gets blasted then runs off...i think...
- The final bit Jinzin mentioned where Sabes dodges a blast and pretty much lands on Cyke's chest....yup....but i seem to remember nobody was helping Scott when he literally blasted Sabertooth off him. This sets up that symbolic ending of Scott's "X" emblem on the floor, after it got ripped off. But i'm pretty sure nobody helped Scott when he blasted Victor off him.
- Little snippet: when Cyke fires that narrow beam onto Sabes' forehead, it KOs him. Kinda makes the argument that Scott doesn't have the power in a narrow blast to take Sabes down a bit moot, no?
Anyway.....then there is talk about Wolverine taking Scott's best shots and also dodging his beams. Yep, he's done this a few times....Wolverine: Origins certainly springs to mind. The UXM issue where Scott gets trasformed into a Brood - that is not a good example though, as Wolverine's thought bubble shows he is "angling himself to get his shackles hit". In fact, i'm pretty sure Logan thinks to himself that if he was hit full on by the blast, he WOULDN'T take it. Maybe someone can post up that scene and clarify it?
Anyway, so if Wolverine has dodged Scott's beams before, the natural counter is that there are times when he hasn't as well. The old UXMs show this quite a lot (eg. when Wolverine is under Sauron's control, Scott not only dodges Wovlerine's lunge, but KOs him....then there's the scene where he taunts Wolverine to bring him back to his senses fter Proteus screwed him over....then there's the infamous Danger Room scene where Scott takes on all the team (and YES, Wolverine does comment his senses are dulled).
But more recently, Astonishing issue 1 shows Wolverine can be tagged by Scott. When they are all sitting in the Danger Room talking, you can see there is a lot of steam coming off Wolverine, just like he was when he was blased out of the window. Ego, Cyke tagged him there.
Woops...anyway, i've gone off the point. Cyke Vs. Sabes?
Two other instances that pop into my mind.....early X-Factor....Mutant Massacre....Cyke tags and "arguably" KOs Sabes while in the Morlock tunnels. It's debateable as Sabes gets up pretty quickly later. Eitehr way, he's tagged. Then X-Men, vol. 2, early issues.....where Maverick accompanies the Blue Team....you can clearly see a blast from Sctott knocks Sabes off his feet, through a window and across a room. Again, you can't quite tell how this all happened, but it shows Cyke has enough juice in him to knock Victor about. Who wins? I reckon Cyke....once he tags Victor, which i think he is more than capable of doing, then that's it. He can take a few hits maybe, but Scott won't let up until he's got the KO or flayed enough skin and tissue of Sabes.
And to add my thoughts into if Scott can see when he has his eyes open and nothing else covering them...
YES.
As many people have already said, the default setting for when his eyes are open is to have the blasts firing. So even with his glasses or visor covering his eyes, the blasts are nullified by the rubyquartz and thus don't "fire". The distance between his eyes and the actual material itself though....there's optic energy floating around there. So therefore Scott must be able to see with his eyes open. By the way, he fights pretty well with his eyes shut anyway....not saying he'd beat Sabes like this, but he ain't half bad.
Also...i know you shouldn't cite a cartoon as an example....but if you watch an episode of X-Men Evolution where Scott is stranded in the desert by Mystique (sans glasses/visor), there's a nice first person perspective of him opening his eyes. This is how i imagine Scott sees when he fires...
This is how I see it.
Wolverine fanboys hoping in to back Sabretooth.
Why?
Because its obligation. If Character X can beat Sabretooth, then by extension, in most circumstances, Character X would also beat Wolverine. And we can't have that now can we?
Now that you're all enlightened, I'm sure you'll notice this pattern in all the vs Sabretooth threads.
Originally posted by Placidity
This is how I see it.Wolverine fanboys hoping in to back Sabretooth.
Why?
Because its obligation. If Character X can beat Sabretooth, then by extension, in most circumstances, Character X would also beat Wolverine. And we can't have that now can we?
Now that you're all enlightened, I'm sure you'll notice this pattern in all the vs Sabretooth threads.
You don't have to be a "fanboy" nor feel "obligated" to think Creed has a shot at winning here.
The reason why I'm backing Creed here is because Cyclops has been limited in his battlefield effectiveness by a significant degree.
Wolverine and Creed have multiple feats between them that point out to them not only being able to dodge such beams but to take them and still come out on top or at the least a threat.
If the fight gets close up, Cyclops is practically done for, and the battlefield has been changed to a forest. Cyclops is severly hindered, Sabretooth's at home.
No obligation or fanboyism necessary to support Creed in this fight.
Originally posted by brainchild81
Cyclops wins & makes it look easier than anybody else ever has against Sabes. Also, if these good showings of Scott ain't in his respect thread, they should be
i'm getting to it... paul
also, the red zone? more high scott showings v creed than the opposite way around, imo...
credit to yestinchong for some good posting...
Originally posted by Mindset
Battlefield wasn't changed.
😕
uh... Yes it was. 😐
Originally posted by Starscream M
I guess I should have made more clear the settings, as it's pretty important in this battle.My intent was that the battle take place in a snow-filled forest, that has trees and other plants, although it isn't dense like a rain forest, there is plenty of cover.
Originally posted by llagrokIt's a natural environment. Given that it's a forest I'm assuming it's a mountainous to semi-mountainous region with other natural features like rivers, bluffs, ridges, and boulders.
How would he "stealth" when it takes Cyclops like to seconds to level the forest?
What? Scott's going to level everything around him at all times? 🙄 K...
Originally posted by jinzin
It's a natural environment. Given that it's a forest I'm assuming it's a mountainous to semi-mountainous region with other natural features like rivers, bluffs, ridges, and boulders.
The ground is also covered in snow.What? Scott's going to level everything around him at all times? 🙄 K...
You don't think that Scott can clear the area around him?
Is Sabretooth going to "stealth" his way to Scott by using the small rocks and rivers found in forests? 😆