Wesley Gibson (Wanted) vs. Spiderman

That's not the issue.

Everyone who has knowledge of the two knows he can and would win, because he's simply superior in every discernable way.

You have decided he won't, why? Simply because you've decided Wesley will do everything first and Spidey won't avoid it. This is, needless to say, Rain Man retarded.

Fun debate? What fun is to be had? These threads are to debate a subject to see who we think would win. You already know who you believe would win, so why did you need anyone else's opinion since they obviously matter so little?

-AC

its been demonstrated that bullets fired can make last minute turns

wesley has the skill to make them curve when he wants.

What the hell...

The trajectory of the bullet (curving or straight) is pre-determined by the shooter when he fires the gun.

Wesley does not have some kind of mental link to the bullets to cause them to change direction in mid-air, if thats what you're implying.

Originally posted by Placidity
What the hell...

The trajectory of the bullet (curving or straight) is pre-determined by the shooter when he fires the gun.

Wesley does not have some kind of mental link to the bullets to cause them to change direction in mid-air, if thats what you're implying.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
That's not the issue.

Everyone who has knowledge of the two knows he can and would win, because he's simply superior in every discernable way.

You have decided he won't, why? Simply because you've decided Wesley will do everything first and Spidey won't avoid it. This is, needless to say, Rain Man retarded.

Fun debate? What fun is to be had? These threads are to debate a subject to see who we think would win. You already know who you believe would win, so why did you need anyone else's opinion since they obviously matter so little?

-AC

and seeing as how in a standard match they have a good distance between them, wesley has a lot of time to fire on spiderman

and no they do matter...howevr stating a character would win without evidence is a bias claim:

"Batman can beat Thor because he's cooler!" That's an example of how not to debate. We would like to see the rationale behind any claims that one character can beat the other rather than a claim based on popularity and subjective bias.
Also, we insist that all claims be backed up by evidence from canon sources. If you claim that Spiderman is stronger than Superman, then you have to prove it.

if yo ubelieve spidemran is superior you have to prove it

Originally posted by DestinyGuy678
...no, spiderman isnt superior in every way, they are equal in both speed as well as reflexs/senses

Wesley's abilites stem from massive, abnormal adrenaline boosts which enhance his reaction speed. Spider-Man's is actually precognition, more or less. As stated in the movie.

Originally posted by DestinyGuy678
and seeing as how in a standard match they have a good distance between them, wesley has a lot of time to fire on spiderman

Spider-Man will obviously just stand there doing the "Spider-Man has made you gay!" dance then, will he? No. What you fail to see is that you are just biased. You assume Wesley will do everything first and Spider-Man won't. Wesley's attacks will definitely work, Spidey's won't. It's dumb, because then what's the point? Not only are you wrong, but it's purposeless.

Originally posted by DestinyGuy678
and no they do matter...howevr stating a character would win without evidence is a bias claim:

"Batman can beat Thor because he's cooler!" That's an example of how not to debate. We would like to see the rationale behind any claims that one character can beat the other rather than a claim based on popularity and subjective bias.

I've not seen anyone say Spidey would win because he's cooler, I've seen everyone, including me, give you legit reasons. You just dislike them, because you feel that your scenario is somehow factual, and attempt to debate with it.

"No, Wesley would do this first, curve a bullet and then Spidey might dodge, but there'd be many more, and they'd chase him.".

No, you're being retarded.

Originally posted by DestinyGuy678
Also, we insist that all claims be backed up by evidence from canon sources. [b]If you claim that Spiderman is stronger than Superman, then you have to prove it.

if yo ubelieve spidemran is superior you have to prove it [/B]

We have all proven it. He has dodged bullets, his powers of sense are superior because they are pre-cognitive, not just faster reaction times. If a bull is chasing me, I run faster than normal because of adrenaline, that's basically what Wesley's abilities are. Spider-Man's senses tell him that something is going to happen before it happens, not just giving him the ability to deal with it faster AFTER it happens.

He's more agile (If you argue this point, you're ridiculous), he's obviously stronger, and he has better senses. Wesley can't win, but you've already decided he would, and you're the only one.

-AC

Curved bullet or not, Spidey has SPIDER SENSE.

End of discussion.

He doesn't seem to get that.

-AC

Dually noted.

Kinda like a Jedi knight's precog.

Jedi precog is better though. 😉

Well, Spider-Man's isn't like, I dunno, Yoda.

He can't see into the distant future.

-AC

Hey who would win in a lightsabre battle - Spiderman with some sabre combat training or a Rookie Jedi.

No force powers allowed.

Oh, just to pretend I'm on-topic - Spiderman snaps Wesley's neck.

Originally posted by Placidity
Hey who would win in a lightsabre battle - Spiderman with some sabre combat training or a Rookie Jedi.

No force powers allowed.

Oh, just to pretend I'm on-topic - Spiderman snaps Wesley's neck.

Originally posted by Impediment
Curved bullet or not, Spidey has SPIDER SENSE.

End of discussion.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Wesley's abilites stem from massive, abnormal adrenaline boosts which enhance his reaction speed. Spider-Man's is actually precognition, more or less. As stated in the movie.

Spider-Man will obviously just stand there doing the "Spider-Man has made you gay!" dance then, will he? No. What you fail to see is that you are just biased. You assume Wesley will do everything first and Spider-Man won't. Wesley's attacks will definitely work, Spidey's won't. It's dumb, because then what's the point? Not only are you wrong, but it's purposeless.

[/b]

I've not seen anyone say Spidey would win because he's cooler, I've seen everyone, including me, give you legit reasons. You just dislike them, because you feel that your scenario is somehow factual, and attempt to debate with it.

"No, Wesley would do this first, curve a bullet and then Spidey might dodge, but there'd be many more, and they'd chase him.".

No, you're being retarded.

We have all proven it. He has dodged bullets, his powers of sense are superior because they are pre-cognitive, not just faster reaction times. If a bull is chasing me, I run faster than normal because of adrenaline, that's basically what Wesley's abilities are. Spider-Man's senses tell him that something is going to happen before it happens, not just giving him the ability to deal with it faster AFTER it happens.

He's more agile (If you argue this point, you're ridiculous), he's obviously stronger, and he has better senses. Wesley can't win, but you've already decided he would, and you're the only one.

-AC [/B]

no I never said spiderman would stand there, merely even if spiderman manages to dodge a bullet the next would would be able to hit him,

and since they move around the same speed, if spiderman gets closer it'll get harder and harder to dodge, against the green goblin he wasnt able to dodge all of the green goblins pumpkins what makes yo uthink this will be any different?

and no you have given barely any evidence:
hes dodged bullets from a random thug,
who do yo uhtink has more accuracy a random thug who is shooting an enemy he can barely see and has little to no practice shooting to begin with, or an assasin who can shoot the wings off a fly?

who stated his spidersense to be like precognition? a scientist who was amazed by the spiders reaction time, however when we see the world from spidermans eyes we dont see him having precognition merely we see the world moving i nslow motion, he however does have enhanced awareness. you havent given proof tha the has senses any greater than wesleys especialy since they have demonstrated the exact same capabilities with it. Wesley is able to bullet dodge at near point blank range. as is spiderman

spidermans spider sense isnt giving him a big advantage at all, and you havent proven it does either.

We have all proven it. He has dodged bullets, his powers of sense are superior because they are pre-cognitive, not just faster reaction times. If a bull is chasing me, I run faster than normal because of adrenaline, that's basically what Wesley's abilities are. Spider-Man's senses tell him that something is going to happen before it happens, not just giving him the ability to deal with it faster AFTER it happens.

He's more agile (If you argue this point, you're ridiculous), he's obviously stronger, and he has better senses. Wesley can't win, but you've already decided he would, and you're the only one.

bullet dodging - wesley bullet dodges quite easily, when focused he cant be hit by bullets (he was dodgin bullets fro mtrain assasins as well and wasnt hit once) spidemran wasnt able to dodge all of the green goblins pumpkins, which move much slower than bullets. Unless you have proof that the spider sense gives him precognition (it does in the comics, but in the movie it seems merely to slow the world down for him) then they have the same reaction time.

Wesley's sense isn't like Spider-Man's. It's increased reaction time, not precognition.

Originally posted by DestinyGuy678
slight precognition as in a second before or so, however when spidemran first uses his powers and we see the world from his eyes it only shows that the world moves in slow motion for him when he uses his powers, and wesley can control his abilities and give himself an adrenaline boost whenever he wants...did you mis that in the movie?

It's not a second or so, for one thing.

Second, I didn't say Wesley couldn't do it when he wants, I said that all it is, is speedy reaction time. Spidey's is precog, what about that do you have trouble grasping?

Originally posted by DestinyGuy678
no I never said spiderman would stand there, merely even if spiderman manages to dodge a bullet the next would would be able to hit him,

No, he'd dodge it. Then he'd hit Wesley with enough force to kill him.

There. There, let's see your counter, if this is how we're gonna debate.

Originally posted by DestinyGuy678
and since they move around the same speed, if spiderman gets closer it'll get harder and harder to dodge, against the green goblin he wasnt able to dodge all of the green goblins pumpkins what makes yo uthink this will be any different?

Why do you assume that Spider-Man is going to be the one who has to be dodging and running? Why do you think that Wesley is not going to have to try to survive either? What do you think Spidey is going to be doing in this fight, tap dancing? Seriously, you're being so one-sided.

Originally posted by DestinyGuy678
and no you have given barely any evidence:
hes dodged bullets from a random thug,

Bullets are bullets. They travel fast no matter what the gun.

Originally posted by DestinyGuy678
who do yo uhtink has more accuracy a random thug who is shooting an enemy he can barely see and has little to no practice shooting to begin with, or an assasin who can shoot the wings off a fly?

It doesn't matter, he can dodge bullets, as we've seen. It doesn't matter who fires them.

And shooting the wings off a fly is impossible and a bit ridiculous even in a movie. A bullet is too large to actually be able to separate a fly's wings from it's body with any kind of accuracy.

Originally posted by DestinyGuy678
who stated his spidersense to be like precognition? a scientist who was amazed by the spiders reaction time, however when we see the world from spidermans eyes we dont see him having precognition merely we see the world moving i nslow motion, he however does have enhanced awareness. you havent given proof tha the has senses any greater than wesleys especialy since they have demonstrated the exact same capabilities with it. Wesley is able to bullet dodge at near point blank range. as is spiderman

His SPIDER-SENSE IS precogition, that is what it is famous for, and given that the spider that bit him had it, he has it to.

The fact is, the slow-down scene was not a depiction of his spider-sense, it was a depiction of how different things seem as Spider-Man. It wasn't real time, it was for the viewer. In real time, all that happened in about two seconds.

Originally posted by DestinyGuy678
spidermans spider sense isnt giving him a big advantage at all, and you havent proven it does either.

I have, you just haven't accepted it because you want Wesley to win. You've gimped this fight so that Spider-Man has to dodge and survive while Wesley gets to do what he wants.

Originally posted by DestinyGuy678
bullet dodging - wesley bullet dodges quite easily, when focused he cant be hit by bullets (he was dodgin bullets fro mtrain assasins as well and wasnt hit once) spidemran wasnt able to dodge all of the green goblins pumpkins, which move much slower than bullets. Unless you have proof that the spider sense gives him precognition (it does in the comics, but in the movie it seems merely to slow the world down for him) then they have the same reaction time.

His spider-sense didn't actually slow down the world for him, that was just a cinematic technique designed to show the fact that he has changed. It wasn't a power.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Wesley's sense isn't like Spider-Man's. It's increased reaction time, not precognition.

It's not a second or so, for one thing.

Second, I didn't say Wesley couldn't do it when he wants, I said that all it is, is speedy reaction time. Spidey's is precog, what about that do you have trouble grasping?

[/b]

No, he'd dodge it. Then he'd hit Wesley with enough force to kill him.

There. There, let's see your counter, if this is how we're gonna debate.

Why do you assume that Spider-Man is going to be the one who has to be dodging and running? Why do you think that Wesley is not going to have to try to survive either? What do you think Spidey is going to be doing in this fight, tap dancing? Seriously, you're being so one-sided.

[/b]

Bullets are bullets. They travel fast no matter what the gun.

It doesn't matter, he can dodge bullets, as we've seen. It doesn't matter who fires them.

And shooting the wings off a fly is impossible and a bit ridiculous even in a movie. A bullet is too large to actually be able to separate a fly's wings from it's body with any kind of accuracy.

[/b]

His SPIDER-SENSE IS precogition, that is what it is famous for, and given that the spider that bit him had it, he has it to.

The fact is, the slow-down scene was not a depiction of his spider-sense, it was a depiction of how different things seem as Spider-Man. It wasn't real time, it was for the viewer. In real time, all that happened in about two seconds.

I have, you just haven't accepted it because you want Wesley to win. You've gimped this fight so that Spider-Man has to dodge and survive while Wesley gets to do what he wants.

His spider-sense didn't actually slow down the world for him, that was just a cinematic technique designed to show the fact that he has changed. It wasn't a power.

-AC [/B]

spiderman in the comics yes has limited precognition, he didnt show that in the movie, lots of characters are different in their movies.

can you give me specific proof to show he has precog? the only time we see the world from spidermans eyes it merely shows the world slowed down for him, meaning he would just has enhanced senses, exactly like wesley

and how is a thug blasting a gun at a target he cant see proving spiderman can dodge bullets? Give an instance where a thug has had spiderman in plain sights and fired a bullet. as far as I remember hes either swung around a thug in the darkness and the thug merely fires bullets at his shadows, or i nthat car scene he cant even see spiderman and is just firing through the roof to try and hit him. that doesnt prove spiderman ca ndodge bullets straight up, much less ones that ca be curved into him.

as for speed bot hhave been sohwn to have super speed, wsley runs through a room dodging bullets and nailing every assasin in one shot)

and if you remember the first man had enough speed/strength to ru nand jump from one building to another which is pretty muc hequal to spidermans leaping ability (spiderman does have greater mobility in the air though)

wesley has also shown he is one a better fighter than spiderman, and can use his guns in melee situations

use movie instances to prove:
his spider sense is precog and not merely enhanced senses
he has dodged bullets in a straight fight
he is significantly faster than wesley

Originally posted by DestinyGuy678
spiderman in the comics yes has limited precognition, he didnt show that in the movie, lots of characters are different in their movies.

can you give me specific proof to show he has precog? the only time we see the world from spidermans eyes it merely shows the world slowed down for him, meaning he would just has enhanced senses, exactly like wesley

and how is a thug blasting a gun at a target he cant see proving spiderman can dodge bullets? Give an instance where a thug has had spiderman in plain sights and fired a bullet. as far as I remember hes either swung around a thug in the darkness and the thug merely fires bullets at his shadows, or i nthat car scene he cant even see spiderman and is just firing through the roof to try and hit him. that doesnt prove spiderman ca ndodge bullets straight up, much less ones that ca be curved into him.

Why are you hanging onto all this curve bs? The bullets are not missiles, they are not lasting. They're not gonna be fired and begin doing acrobatics while they chase Spidey around the area.

As stated before, he doesn't have a mental link with the bullets, so this mid-air directional change bs is just nonsense. You're acting like Spidey is going to have to dodge bullets from Trowa Barton's Heavyarms gundam or something. He's not, it's a man who can only ever carry a gun or two.

Besides, Spidey doesn't necessarily have to dodge bullets, he can get to places that Wesley can't, and he has web, which you're also ignoring in favour of Wesley. Oh, wait, but I suppose Wesley gets to dodge that, right?

Originally posted by DestinyGuy678
as for speed bot hhave been sohwn to have super speed, wsley runs through a room dodging bullets and nailing every assasin in one shot)

He was not dodging bullets, come on. That was ancillary cannon fodder syndrome. He was killing them in one shot, running through the room and not getting hit because that was one of his movie badass moments. We have learned throughout history that henchmen are shit at shooting guns.

Originally posted by DestinyGuy678
and if you remember the first man had enough speed/strength to ru nand jump from one building to another which is pretty muc hequal to spidermans leaping ability (spiderman does have greater mobility in the air though)

Spider-Man has greater ability than to jump from one building to another, he has jumped greater distances in the movies.

Originally posted by DestinyGuy678
wesley has also shown he is one a better fighter than spiderman, and can use his guns in melee situations

So? Spider-Man will (Yeah, I'm using your tactic) web his guns away from him. Then what? Your bullet bs is gone.

Oh, but let me guess, Wesley wouldn't let him. Yeah, yeah. Wesley won't let Spidey do anything, yet Spider-Man is now some guy walking around with a "Please shoot me!" sign.

Originally posted by DestinyGuy678
use movie instances to prove:
his spider sense is precog and not merely enhanced senses

Goblin's glider. It's entirely silent, yet he avoids it.

Originally posted by DestinyGuy678
he has dodged bullets in a straight fight

The car thing. The part where he stops the van being robbed and backflips to knock the guys out.

Originally posted by DestinyGuy678
he is significantly faster than wesley

Because Spider-Man is known as being one of the fastest humans in fiction, unless you're Flash or Superman.

So now you can answer my questions:

What is stopping Spidey from getting to Wesley first with HIS powers and HIS speed, HIS strength, and winning this fight?

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Why are you hanging onto all this curve bs? The bullets are not missiles, they are not lasting. They're not gonna be fired and begin doing acrobatics while they chase Spidey around the area.

As stated before, he doesn't have a mental link with the bullets, so this mid-air directional change bs is just nonsense. You're acting like Spidey is going to have to dodge bullets from Trowa Barton's Heavyarms gundam or something. He's not, it's a man who can only ever carry a gun or two.

Besides, Spidey doesn't necessarily have to dodge bullets, he can get to places that Wesley can't, and he has web, which you're also ignoring in favour of Wesley. Oh, wait, but I suppose Wesley gets to dodge that, right?

He was not dodging bullets, come on. That was ancillary cannon fodder syndrome. He was killing them in one shot, running through the room and not getting hit because that was one of his movie badass moments. We have learned throughout history that henchmen are shit at shooting guns.

Spider-Man has greater ability than to jump from one building to another, he has jumped greater distances in the movies.

So? Spider-Man will (Yeah, I'm using your tactic) web his guns away from him. Then what? Your bullet bs is gone.

Oh, but let me guess, Wesley wouldn't let him. Yeah, yeah. Wesley won't let Spidey do anything, yet Spider-Man is now some guy walking around with a "Please shoot me!" sign.

Goblin's glider. It's entirely silent, yet he avoids it.

The car thing. The part where he stops the van being robbed and backflips to knock the guys out.

Because Spider-Man is known as being one of the fastest humans in fiction, unless you're Flash or Superman.

So now you can answer my questions:

What is stopping Spidey from getting to Wesley first with HIS powers and HIS speed, HIS strength, and winning this fight?

-AC

no but multiple bullets can, , and it is somthing spiderman isnt used to nor is he ready for, as in if spiderma jumps up to dodge the first bullet a second one can be used to curve in to the air. I never said wesley had a mental link with the bullet only that he descides when/weher/how they curve when he shoots the bullet.

and what exactly is spidemran going to do with the web?

....they werent henchmen all of the mwere members of the fraternity meaning they were trained wit hweapons. and yes he was dodgin the bullets we was running throug hthe center of the room ddoging and blasting other bullets out of the air. The whole scene was to show you he had become one of the best if not the best member of the fraternity.

when he first got his powers he showed jumping from one building to another (and using a bullet when the distance was to far) and care to mentio nthese instances of greater jumping ability?

what tactic am I using, a proving the point that a curved bullet would both surprise and wound spiderman because he has shown before he cant dodge a series of fast projectiles (like against the green goblin) and his webs move significantly slower than bullets as well

silent to a normal human,
YouTube video

....how is that completely silent? spiderman hears: the blade shoting out, 2nd it crashing through the wood, 3rd it rocket boosters at is accelrates at him.

so again what proof do you have he has precog?

the car thing. you mean where the thugs are shooting at him throug hthe hood of the car and have absolutely no idea where he is? so a thug shooting blindly at spiderman proves he can dodge bullets? no.

in his comics. we're using spiderman i nhis movies, and saying hes one of the fastest humans, without proof from the movies is both biased and baseless all we have is this:
YouTube video

which shows spiderman merely has increased awareness in his movies and sees the world in slow motion, similar to wesley(not many videos of scenes since the movie hasnt come out sorry, check out around 1:10):

YouTube video

Originally posted by DestinyGuy678
no but multiple bullets can, , and it is somthing spiderman isnt used to nor is he ready for, as in if spiderma jumps up to dodge the first bullet a second one can be used to curve in to the air. I never said wesley had a mental link with the bullet only that he descides when/weher/how they curve when he shoots the bullet.

What are you TALKING about? He cannot curve them in mid air, he has to do the motion with the gun. He cannot do this in rapid enough succession that it's going to cover Spider-Man in such a hail of bullets that he cannot dodge them, it's just not gonna happen.

He doesn't curve them in mid air, he swings his arm, big deal.

Besides, the biggest curve it ever did was to get that guy sitting in the chair. That's not a rapid change of direction as you would have people believe, and the man sitting in the chair is not Spider-Man. Firing a gun at a Spider-Man who doesn't want to be hit means one thing; you won't hit him.

Originally posted by DestinyGuy678
and what exactly is spidemran going to do with the web?

Oh for crying out loud. What, so bullets can definitely hit Spider-Man, but continually blasting him with web will get dodged? He's not strong enough to break out of he is caught under enough of it.

Originally posted by DestinyGuy678
....they werent henchmen all of the mwere members of the fraternity meaning they were trained wit hweapons. and yes he was dodgin the bullets we was running throug hthe center of the room ddoging and blasting other bullets out of the air. The whole scene was to show you he had become one of the best if not the best member of the fraternity.

Yes, and why? Because that's the movie. If he had ended up getting caught with a head shot, his slow-down scene of badassery wouldn't seem half as good, would it? Every hero has a scene where they gun down a million other trained guys, but these guys usually have Stormtrooper syndrome. It happened in Equilibrium too.

Originally posted by DestinyGuy678
when he first got his powers he showed jumping from one building to another (and using a bullet when the distance was to far) and care to mentio nthese instances of greater jumping ability?

He jumps through the air at distances that zoom past most of the buildings around him, so he obviously has the ability to jump over more than one.

Originally posted by DestinyGuy678
what tactic am I using, a proving the point that a curved bullet would both surprise and wound spiderman because he has shown before he cant dodge a series of fast projectiles (like against the green goblin) and his webs move significantly slower than bullets as well

No, you're not proving anything. You are proving why you believe that would happen, not that it would. You are INSISTING it would, which is dumb, and defeats the point of Vs fights. You don't KNOW how one person would attack, or how the other would react, so the point of Vs fights is to weigh up abilities and then decide who might/would win based on that. Not "He'd do this, then Spider-Man would get hit with this.". Says who?

I say Spider-Man would get Wesley first. How do you counter that? Even if he wasn't faster, they'd be as fast as each other, so what's saying he won't blind Wesley with web and then continually web him to the point that he can't break out, cos it'd be a constant stream of web, then Spider-Man would kill him.

There, how do you counter that? "NO! WESLEY IS FASTER! HE'D DO IT ALL FIRST!".

Originally posted by DestinyGuy678
silent to a normal human,
YouTube video

....how is that completely silent? spiderman hears: the blade shoting out, 2nd it crashing through the wood, 3rd it rocket boosters at is accelrates at him.

In the space of what? Point is, the video proves he knew it was going to happen, and it proves he's ridiculously fast.

Originally posted by DestinyGuy678
so again what proof do you have he has precog?

That video, and the fact that it says so in the movie, watch it.

Originally posted by DestinyGuy678
the car thing. you mean where the thugs are shooting at him throug hthe hood of the car and have absolutely no idea where he is? so a thug shooting blindly at spiderman proves he can dodge bullets? no.

Was he not dodging the bullets?

Originally posted by DestinyGuy678
in his comics. we're using spiderman i nhis movies, and saying hes one of the fastest humans, without proof from the movies is both biased and baseless all we have is this:

which shows spiderman merely has increased awareness in his movies and sees the world in slow motion, similar to wesley(not many videos of scenes since the movie hasnt come out sorry, check out around 1:10):

You don't get it. Those slow-downs are not part of their powers, the slow-downs are for the benefit of US, so we can see just what is going on. It's now how THEY see it, it's how we HAVE to see it because it's too fast.

Again, shooting the wings off a fly with a bullet thicker than would work is a stretch of the belief too far anyway.

-AC