Originally posted by Bardock42
I thought it was universally accepted that it is rebellion.
He was denying it.
Originally posted by Bardock42
It's weird that both sides really get their ideas mostly from their parents (one in rebellion one in agreement). Actually, not that weird afterall.
Damn you Freud!
Has he actually stated what he does believe in regards to that?
Xvamp, do you opt not to celebrate Christmas altogether, or just add a K in there? Or Easter, for that matter? I can't speak for other countries since I've never been to one over either of those holidays, but if you live in the US, both holidays are pretty much secular since so much other than religion is associated with them. Do you celebrate these holidays in a secular respect, or do you reject them completely?
Originally posted by willofthewisp
but if you live in the US, both holidays are pretty much secular since so much other than religion is associated with them.
not to derail the topic, but that is very arrogant/inconsiderate coming from someone who believes in the mythology behind those holidays.
Christian holidays, for people who aren't Christian, can be, at the very least, frusterating and isolating.
Originally posted by inimalist
not to derail the topic, but that is very arrogant/inconsiderate coming from someone who believes in the mythology behind those holidays.Christian holidays, for people who aren't Christian, can be, at the very least, frusterating and isolating.
They should get over it and enjoy the time off . . .
Originally posted by willofthewispi don't celbrate them myself...i get together with family and thats really it. i dont care what the meaning for the holidays are...
Has he actually stated what he does believe in regards to that?Xvamp, do you opt not to celebrate Christmas altogether, or just add a K in there? Or Easter, for that matter? I can't speak for other countries since I've never been to one over either of those holidays, but if you live in the US, both holidays are pretty much secular since so much other than religion is associated with them. Do you celebrate these holidays in a secular respect, or do you reject them completely?
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
They should get over it and enjoy the time off . . .
lol, who would think that a believer wouldn't be offended by their own beliefs?
I don't see why anyone would waste their time arguing that a) Christian based religious holidays are secular or b) that people who aren't Christian might not like being inendated by someone else's religion.
I said frusterated and isolated, not persecuted and oppressed. I don't think its that much of a stretch
Originally posted by inimalist
lol, who would think that a believer wouldn't be offended by their own beliefs?I don't see why anyone would waste their time arguing that a) Christian based religious holidays are secular or b) that people who aren't Christian might not like being inendated by someone else's religion.
I said frusterated and isolated, not persecuted and oppressed. I don't think its that much of a stretch
I didn't say what they would do. I said what they should do.
And I know it isn't impossible: A friend of my is atheist but celebrates Christmas for the free stuff. My aunt and her family are all Jewish but they come over for Christmas to be with the family.
Christmas, for the record, stopped being primarily religious a long time ago. Christians still celebrate for it's intended purpose (sometimes) but the level of commercialization totally overshadows that to that point that Christianity feels like an overtone of the holiday not it's main reason. Obviously it's still technically about Jesus being born and technically a Christian holiday but there's a line from the Simpsons that's something like: "Christmas, the day we celebrate the birth of Santa."
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I didn't say what they would do. I said what they should do.And I know it isn't impossible: A friend of my is atheist but celebrates Christmas for the free stuff.My aunt and her family are all Jewish but they come over for Christmas to be with the family.
lol, ya, you are preaching at the choir about individual differences, and like anything, people can only give you their opinions based on their personal experience. That Christmas is a religious holiday to me will forever be tied to the extreme religiosity that acompanied it in my family. This is obviously not to say that I don't hang out with my friends on the holidays, just that seeing the name of someone else's saviour plastered everywhere is unsettling.
People have very little control over what gets under their skin. Again, my point was simply to contest that Christmas is secular in America, certainly not to say people shouldn't celebrate it or that people should protest it. I agree that what people should do (as in their actions) is essentially what you say, but that does not get rid of negative feelings one might have at the perception of being ostracized by the culture.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Christmas, for the record, stopped being primarily religious a long time ago. Christians still celebrate for it's intended purpose (sometimes) but the level of commercialization totally overshadows that to that point that Christianity feels like an overtone of the holiday not it's main reason. Obviously it's still technically about Jesus being born and technically a Christian holiday but there's a line from the Simpsons that's something like: "Christmas, the day we celebrate the birth of Santa."
I think this may be a specific cultural interpretation though. I understand how Christians could see contemporary Christmas as being secular compared to when the world was decidedly theocratic, however, from the experience of an athiest whom doesn't have the cultural memory of "the good old days" (no, I'm not saying you are claiming it was good, just an expression), it is a much different experience
Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
No...that quote supports it, very much so, oh and for the record it isn't my fault that you "choose" to only take the Bible into account when discussing Christianity...although you only do that because you know ZERO about the religion and are just sitting on biblegateway entering keywords into the search field...shock!
Originally posted by King Kandy
That quote says nothing about Satan being prideful or even anything resembling that. Your point=irrelevant to that quote. It's sad that you are so cornered you choose to insult me rather than back up your point.
Seriously though...if you actually understood anything about the Christian religion you would see exactly where I am getting at with that quote...or do I need to spell out to you what it means?
Originally posted by inimalist
not to derail the topic, but that is very arrogant/inconsiderate coming from someone who believes in the mythology behind those holidays.Christian holidays, for people who aren't Christian, can be, at the very least, frusterating and isolating.
I'm not saying that American Jews, Muslims, etc should or do celebrate Christmas. I fully understand how left out those people can be at that time of year, having Jewish acquaintances from college who were disappointed they weren't going home for Hanukkah but were going home later for no reason that was relevent to them. What I was saying is that people who never go to church, never pray, and never even think about God celebrate Christmas and Easter in spite of the fact that Jesus' birth and subsequent resurrection play a miniscule part in their lives, if at all. It's the commercialism of both that make it pretty much secular for those people.
Back on topic, the aforementioned quote Grand Moff cited, at the very least, implies strongly that Satan is prideful.
Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Seriously though...if you actually understood anything about the Christian religion you would see exactly where I am getting at with that quote...or do I need to spell out to you what it means?