Bob Lee Swagger versus Batman · Movie Versus Forum

Rogue Jedi Restricted

Originally posted by Robtard
It smashed through a speeding dump-truck headon without sustaining a scratch. It certainly is tough.
No, he wouldn't use the Batmobile in that scenario, he'd probably use a plane at high attitude. Also, I said "stealthily", meaning Swagger wouldn't know he's coming from above and therefore negate your "he would shoot him out of the sky".
How much food do you assume Swagger picked up on his escape to hide in your little scenario?
You have already come to the conclusion that you want Swagger to win because you like the character, so the scenario is setup to gimp Batman. You do this often. Why not just set it up to the point where Swagger can't lose and be done with it?

Swagger is not an idiot, he is aware of his surroundings at all times. He would certainly be prepared for Batman attacking from the air, since he is highly trained at counter intel. He might not know about every little gadget Batman uses, but he will certainly be aware of the slight possibility of Batman attacking from above. He is, after all, Batman.

Worst case scenario for Swagger is Batman gets too close for a sniper rifle, but then Swagger still has his assault rifle. And, since I have shown what a single gunshot will do to Batman, it's safe to say the G36 will tear Batman apart.

But, since Batman approaches in the Batmobile, your "air ninja stealth attack" is not applicable, and if it were, Swagger would be prepared for it.

Swagger would have enough food and water as he needs, his Marine training alone would ensure this, Rations and C packs fit quite easily into a backpack or the pockets of his fatigues.

Robtard Senor Member

And Batman is a genius and unparalleled tactician. Yet here he is rolling up on an expert sniper who has a .50 caliber rifle loaded with armour piercing rounds. See how ridiculous your scenario is?

Rogue Jedi Restricted

Originally posted by Robtard
And Batman is a genius and unparalleled tactician. Yet here he is rolling up on an expert sniper who has armour piercing rounds. See how ridiculous your scenario is?

Genius? Yes, I have no doubt about that. Unparalleled? I doubt that very seriously.

Look at it this way, let's say YOU are Swagger, you are framed for shooting the Ethiopian Archbishop. You escape Gotham, as Swagger did. You learn Batman is coming after you. It is inevitable that a showdown will ensue.

Now, aren't you going to choose a battleground to your liking? Aren't you going to use all the tools of your trade to defeat Batman?

Placidity Chief Executive Officer

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Is the Batmobile devoid of an exhaust system? It has to produce heat, this is where thermal goggles and thermal scopes come into play.

Except that you never stated Swagger gets thermal goggles, and you definitely did not state that he equipped his rifle with a thermal scope. Also, its not something that is part of his standard equipment.

I think you're just throwing that in now to counter the invisibility of the batmobile.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi

The deadliest .50 caliber ammunition is the Raufoss multi-purpose round. These bullets combine armor-piercing, explosive, and incendiary effects for maximum destruction. The United States Marine Corps notes that the Raufoss multi-purpose round can penetrate an inch of steel at 2000 yards.

I'm pretty sure the type of round Swagger used in the movie were standard 12.7mm NATO anti-personnel rounds, not anti-materiel.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi

Scene 2, when Danny Glover and Elias Koteas approach him about the job. He takes a pic of their SUV's "engine."
They leave, and as they are driving away, the third guy with them says "Did you see what he did? he didnt need a photo of the engine."
Elias Koteas says "Nah he doesnt give a rats ass about the engine, he's trained in Counter Intel, he took a picture of the plates."

I've been asking you this question for awhile now, and I've always known that this was the answer you were going to give.

First of all, one such minor incident doesn't make him an expert in anything.

Secondly, and more importantly, I was laughing the first time I saw this scene when the film came out. Why? Because the scriptwriters don't know jack - taking a picture of the plates has no association at all with "counter-intelligence". If anything, it counts as intelligence.

Clearly, the script writers didn't do any research for their film. Just throwing in random terms to make it sound good to not-so-knowledgeable viewers.

While on the same point - Swagger makes the one-mile shot sound like some kind of urban myth, when in fact the longest kill recorded is at 1.51 miles with a Tac50.

Another thing to show that the scriptwriters are morons:
There's also a scene where Rhona Mitra tells Memphis that the information he wants "is past his pay-grade". A line the scriptwriters stole from the Bourne Supremacy (said by Brian Cox)(Also stolen in the film "Inside Man", and "Die Hard 4"😉.

Robtard Senor Member

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Genius? Yes, I have no doubt about that. Unparalleled? I doubt that very seriously.
Look at it this way, let's say YOU are Swagger, you are framed for shooting the Ethiopian Archbishop. You escape Gotham, as Swagger did. You learn Batman is coming after you. It is inevitable that a showdown will ensue.
Now, aren't you going to choose a battleground to your liking? Aren't you going to use all the tools of your trade to defeat Batman?

If you knew anything about Batman, you'd know that his tactical skills are well beyond exceptional. I suggest doing some research before you post a flawed scenario.

The same would apply to Batman, he'd have done his homework on Swagger and he would know how well skilled he is, so he certainly wouldn't drive the Batmobile into range for an easy shot. Your scenario is both ludicrous and bias.

Rogue Jedi Restricted

Originally posted by Placidity
Except that you never stated Swagger gets thermal goggles, and you definitely did not state that he equipped his rifle with a thermal scope. Also, its not something that is part of his standard equipment.
I think you're just throwing that in now to counter the invisibility of the batmobile.

Go back a few pages and see where I said it long ago.

I'm pretty sure the type of round Swagger used in the movie were standard 12.7mm NATO anti-personnel rounds, not anti-materiel.

Doesn't matter, Swagger, as a sniper, is trained to use the type of rounds I described, therefore he has access to them.

I've been asking you this question for awhile now, and I've always known that this was the answer you were going to give.
First of all, one such minor incident doesn't make him an expert in anything.

Danny Glovers character was no fool, he did research on Swagger before approaching him, and obviously knows all areas Swagger is trained in, including counter intel. Swagger is a pro at learning about his enemies. Yeah Swagger taking a pic of the plates is one minor incident, but it shows that he learns as much as he needs to about his enemies/allies before taking on a job.

Secondly, and more importantly, I was laughing the first time I saw this scene when the film came out. Why? Because the scriptwriters don't know jack - taking a picture of the plates has no association at all with "counter-intelligence". If anything, it counts as intelligence.

See what I just said for my response to this.

While on the same point - Swagger makes the one-mile shot sound like some kind of urban myth, when in fact the longest kill recorded is at 1.51 miles with a Tac50.

He knows he is one of the few in the world who can make the shot, he is letting Danny Glovers character know that there are in fact a handful of men who can in fact do so.

Another thing to show that the scriptwriters are morons:
There's also a scene where Rhona Mitra tells Memphis that the information he wants "is past his pay-grade". A line the scriptwriters stole from the Bourne Supremacy (said by Brian Cox)(Also stolen in the film "Inside Man", and "Die Hard 4"😉.

So? And? Doesn't have anything to do with Swagger's skills, does it?

Quiero Mota Member Señor

Batman never kills anyone, right? So if Batman wins, the worst consequence for Shooter would be humiliation. That's not very exciting.

If Shooter wins, Batman's head will be blown of his shoulders. If Batman wins, the other guy will be forced to listen to a morality lecture in handcuffs.

Rogue Jedi Restricted

Originally posted by Robtard
If you knew anything about Batman, you'd know that his tactical skills are well beyond exceptional. I suggest doing some research before you post a flawed scenario.
The same would apply to Batman, he'd have done his homework on Swagger and he would know how well skilled he is, so he certainly wouldn't drive the Batmobile into range for an easy shot. Your scenario is both ludicrous and bias.

I just said Batman was a genius tactician, did I not?

No answer then?

Placidity Chief Executive Officer

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Go back a few pages and see where I said it long ago.

You may have mentioned goggles, definitely not a thermal scope.

Placidity Chief Executive Officer

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi

Danny Glovers character was no fool, he did research on Swagger before approaching him, and obviously knows all areas Swagger is trained in, including counter intel. Swagger is a pro at learning about his enemies. Yeah Swagger taking a pic of the plates is one minor incident, but it shows that he learns as much as he needs to about his enemies/allies before taking on a job.
See what I just said for my response to this.

Um, thats not the point. Point is, no where in the film does it show that he is "an expert in counter-intel". In fact, it diminishes the credibility of whoever said it because he was clearly referencing it to him taking a photo as counter-intel, when it is NOT.

Placidity Chief Executive Officer

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi

Doesn't matter, Swagger, as a sniper, is trained to use the type of rounds I described, therefore he has access to them.

No, he has access to whatever he has with him. Which according to vs rules is standard weapons/equipment. Since you failed to mention that he has weapons/equipment beyond what is standard, he won't have access to them.

Scythe The Goat

Alot of this sounds like RJ won't even consider it anymore let alone apply it, and it's not like there's a soemwhat even amount of people arguing the fact that Swagger would win, it's only RJ. So with that being said, we can rest assured that the majority of votes and opinions is in favor of Batman.

Rogue Jedi Restricted

Originally posted by Placidity
You may have mentioned goggles, definitely not a thermal scope.

I mentioned "standard sniper gear", did you miss that part? I listed a few of the items he would be carrying, but the fact that snipers regularly thermal goggles AND scopes means Swagger has them.

Standard sniper gear versus Standard Batman Gear. Get it? To further elaborate on this, see the bottom of this post.

Originally posted by Placidity
Um, thats not the point. Point is, no where in the film does it show that he is "an expert in counter-intel". In fact, it diminishes the credibility of whoever said it because he was clearly referencing it to him taking a photo as counter-intel, when it is NOT.

It doesnt matter if you think it diminishes the fact that he is trained in counter intel, all that matters is that it is stated that he is trained in counter intel, end of story.

Originally posted by Placidity
No, he has access to whatever he has with him. Which according to vs rules is standard weapons/equipment. Since you failed to mention that he has weapons/equipment beyond what is standard, he won't have access to them.

I said in the opening post: He arms himself with a .50 caliber sniper rifle, H&K G36 assault rifle, as well as two .45 automatics as sidearms. He also has all the standard sniper gear: Ghille suits, claymores, the works.

THE WORKS ....Means any and all gear snipers regularly use.

Rogue Jedi Restricted

Originally posted by Scythe
Alot of this sounds like RJ won't even consider it anymore let alone apply it, and it's not like there's a soemwhat even amount of people arguing the fact that Swagger would win, it's only RJ. So with that being said, we can rest assured that the majority of votes and opinions is in favor of Batman.

And I have no problem with that. You expect me to say "Oh no, everyone is saying Batman would win, I better change my mind even though I am not convinced?"

Scythe The Goat

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
And I have no problem with that. You expect me to say "Oh no, everyone is saying Batman would win, I better change my mind even though I am not convinced?"

I don't expect you to say that either. I'd expect one to argue their choice, stick to their choice and end discussion, but this is just borderline sad. Is it so wrong to consider Swagger the winner and just let it be?

Rogue Jedi Restricted

Originally posted by Scythe
I don't expect you to say that either. I'd expect one to argue their choice, stick to their choice and end discussion, but this is just borderline sad. Is it so wrong to consider Swagger the winner and just let it be?

Hey, if someone posts here and counters what I say, I am gonna come right back and counter what they say. This is what the thread is for, talking about who would win, in ones opinion.

Someone comes back and posts why they think Batman would win, I am gonna post why I think Swagger would win. Easy cheesy.

Bardock42 Junior Member

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
When you said you were gonna watch Shooter, I took it as you were gona watch it for the first time, not that you were gonna see it again, thats my bad.

Oh, no biggie, I can see how you could misinterpret this

Originally posted by Bardock42
I think I will watch the movie again tonight (though, frankly, I think it was nothing special, a bit chliched even" to get back to you, but as far as I recall, he was good, but not that good.

as me saying I am going to watch it for the first time.

Placidity Chief Executive Officer

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I mentioned "standard sniper gear", did you miss that part? I listed a few of the items he would be carrying, but the fact that snipers regularly thermal goggles AND scopes means Swagger has them.
Standard sniper gear versus Standard Batman Gear. Get it? To further elaborate on this, see the bottom of this post.

No, not fact at all. Fact is, the Barret is equipped with a standard telescopic sight. Thats the fact.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi

It doesnt matter if you think it diminishes the fact that he is trained in counter intel, all that matters is that it is stated that he is trained in counter intel, end of story.

Yes it does actually. It was stated by someone who doesn't even know what counter-intel is, and neither did you, before I pointed that out.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi

He also has all the standard sniper gear: Ghille suits, claymores, the works.[/i]
[b]THE WORKS ....Means any and all gear snipers regularly use. [/B]

Claymores is standard sniper gear? You just stated "standard", then you contradict by saying "the works", which you now conveniently interpret as "any and all gear"?

Scythe The Goat

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Hey, if someone posts here and counters what I say, I am gonna come right back and counter what they say. This is what the thread is for, talking about who would win, in ones opinion.
Someone comes back and posts why they think Batman would win, I am gonna post why I think Swagger would win. Easy cheesy.

Yeah, but if it's done right, then it can be done, as this thread shows, it's not going too well. It'll probably be locked because here's the current formula for this thread.

Step 1, RJ: Swagger would kill Batman, one shot, dead

Step 2, Everyone else: I doubt that, Batman is not that easy to kill, this thread is one-sided and biased

Step 3, RJ: He'd win, shot in the face, dead bat

Step 4, Everyone else: No...

After that, steps 1-4 are repeated severely...

Rogue Jedi Restricted

Originally posted by Placidity
No, not fact at all. Fact is, the Barret is equipped with a standard telescopic sight. Thats the fact.

And WHERE did I say the rifle was a Barrett? I provided a random link to explain the power of ANY .50 caliber sniper rifle, I never said "Swagger is armed with a BARRETT .50 caliber sniper rifle", did I? Opening post states "Swagger is armed with a .50 caliber sniper rifle."

And FYI, here:

http://www.imaging1.com/thermal/NVWS4-night-vision-scope.html

Yes it does actually. It was stated by someone who doesn't even know what counter-intel is, and neither did you, before I pointed that out.

It was stated by a character who knows what counter intel is, who is trained in counter intel, therefore Swagger is trained in counter intel. So what if it's a directorial error? That's irreverent. Fact is they were trying to express that Swagger is trained in counter intel, that's all that matters.

Claymores is standard sniper gear? You just stated "standard", then you contradict by saying "the works", which you now conveniently interpret as "any and all gear"?

Did you want me to list any and all sniper gear in the opening post, from shoelaces to fatigue camo patterns? "The works" is a loose term to describe all of the gear Swagger knows how to use. And yes, snipers carry claymore mines. Research it.