Originally posted by jaden101Actually I changed it to movie Swagger only at AC's insistence.
also...the books were set during Nam but the plot was changed for the film to bring it into the modern setting...thus if you're using the books as a reference for swagger's skills then you can give him modern weaponry as they wouldn't have been invented yet...surely?and doesn't a sniper ideally need a spotter?
And good snipers can do calculations on the fly. Swagger, being one of the best, can surely do this with ease. Also, a .50 cal sniper rifle is much more accurate at a mile out than, say, a .308.
Originally posted by PlaciditySure, because I totally said he would do that. 🙄
In the film, he didn't have one when he was shooting stationary targets.Of course Batman will just be standing still, outside his Batmobile, with the Batman theme blaring from his Batride speakers. He might even bust out a few dance moves.
Batman can dance?
Originally posted by PlacidityHey, people were questioning whether the rifle could penetrate the Batmobile or Batmans armor, so I provided information. Whats wrong with that?
So you just randomly posted links to a Barrett? No, you're not the only one that knows what a .50 is lol, we don't need you to post up a random link to a rifle which Swagger is apparently NOT going to use.
Wow, thanks for the picture, or else I would have had no idea what a scope looks like.So snipers, in your opinion, never use thermal or night vision scopes?Posting up a picture of an item doesn't make it standard.
Fail. If he knew what counter-intel was, why would he even saying taking a picture of number plates counts as counter-intel when its not?Call the director. Elias Koteas said "He is trained in counter intel", doesnt matter if Swagger took a pic of the plates or if he tool a crap on the hood. It is stated by someone who knows Swagger and has researched him thoroughly, therefore it is fact. Swagger also researched the three cities where the shooting might take place, remember that?Thats the lamest excuse you've provided. There is effectively no where in the film does it show that Swagger is "an expert" at counter-intel. Just admit defeat on this one.
No. Shoe laces isn't sniper gear. Claymore mines isn't sniper gear.That was sarcasm, brainiac.Everyone wears shoe laces, and any soldier can carry mines. Maybe you should research it.
Don't bluff with someone who knows their stuff. I'm very glad you decided to engage me on a military technical level, cause you're going to lose badly.
Engaging on a military level? What the hell are you babbling about? You are splitting hairs just for the sake of it now.
Face it, you specifically mentioned "standard gear", then you added in "the works" (ambiguity anyone?) so you can include any equipment you see fit later in the debate, such as a thermal scope.I mentioned "the works" so I would have to catalog every single piece of weaponry/equipment he was carrying. I figured someone with half a brain would see that.
Say you order a hot dog, the vendor asks you what you want on it, you say "the works".....whats gonna be put on your hot dog? EVERYTHING. See how that works?
Originally posted by PlacidityThat link is dead, did it work for you?
Lol, I just noticed that your link doesn't even show a thermal scope. You do know what a thermal scope is right?Its time for you to jump on wikipedia (again)!
Whatever, here http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/rifle/M107.html
Originally posted by Rogue JediSay you order a hot dog, the vendor asks you what you want on it, you say "the works".....whats gonna be put on your hot dog? EVERYTHING. See how that works?
Everything that is standard for a hot dog. You probably won't find Skittles on your Hot Dog anytime soon when saying that.
Just so we know what Swagger actually has, can you list the items.
Originally posted by Bardock42You want an itemized list? Everything down to the smallest piece of equipment? You serious?
Everything that is standard for a hot dog. You probably won't find Skittles on your Hot Dog anytime soon when saying that.Just so we know what Swagger actually has, can you list the items.
You'd have us do the same for Batman, so do the same for Swagger.
Bearing in mind, this is meaning every single item he uses in the movie, or at very least, has on his person. Not stuff you think would be standard, stuff we know for a fact he has and could use. I wasn't allowed to suggest the Batmobile has impenetrable tyres despite it being possible, because it's not in the movie.
So let's keep it fair. If Swagger does not show it, use it, or make it known that he has it, then he doesn't get it in this fight.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Actually I changed it to movie Swagger only at AC's insistence
Why are you so allergic to admitting you did so because...those are the rules of the forum?
You say "It doesn't matter either way.", but then say nothing. Why wrongly insist that I am the cause? You changed because the rules state it's movie only, and you've been told before (And were told again) that it's movie only.
-AC
Yeah, but this of course is a biased fight and the scenario is setup to favor one and gimp the other.
Of note, it not a far stretch to imagine that the Tumbler's tyres are filled with foam in lieu of air, which of course would allow them to not fully deflate when being shot. Some military (or special purpose) vehicles come this way, for obvious reasons. Considering the amount of damage the Tumbler absorbed in both movies and never sustained a flat tyre, I can't see them going flat from a bullet.
I still say Batman rolls all the way up the hill sipping a latte while Swagger futilely fires round after round only to be run over, gassed or taken out by some over armament the Tumbler has.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri😆 Nice try.
You'd have us do the same for Batman, so do the same for Swagger.Bearing in mind, this is meaning every single item he uses in the movie, or at very least, has on his person. Not stuff you think would be standard, stuff we know for a fact he has and could use. I wasn't allowed to suggest the Batmobile has impenetrable tyres despite it being possible, because it's not in the movie.
So let's keep it fair. If Swagger does not show it, use it, or make it known that he has it, then he doesn't get it in this fight.
I can understand Wayne industries creating a tire that stands up to small arms fire, but one that stands up to .50 caliber rifle fire? Dude, get real. The tires have to be rubber, or at least rubber based, or he would not have any traction. What you are suggesting is fantasy, almost like giving Batman a damn lightsaber.
The gear I am going to list is gear that is real life shit, stuff that snipers are trained to use.
Tell you what, give me a few examples of gadgets Batman has that arent shown in the movie.
Why are you so allergic to admitting you did so because...those are the rules of the forum?Because thats how it went down, man. If Mattie had stepped in and decreed it so, then I would say I changed it due to forum rules.You say "It doesn't matter either way.", but then say nothing. Why wrongly insist that I am the cause? You changed because the rules state it's movie only, and you've been told before (And were told again) that it's movie only.
-AC
Originally posted by RobtardImagine away, but we havent seen the Batmobile stand up to a .50 caliber rifle round, have we? It shoots through an inch of STEEL, man.
Yeah, but this of course is a biased fight and the scenario is setup to favor one and gimp the other.Of note, it not a far stretch to imagine that the Tumbler's tyres are filled with foam in lieu of air, which of course would allow them to not fully deflate when being shot. Some military (or special purpose) vehicles come this way, for obvious reasons. Considering the amount of damage the Tumbler absorbed in both movies and never sustained a flat tyre, I can't see them going flat from a bullet.
I still say Batman rolls all the way up the hill sipping a latte while Swagger futilely fires round after round only to be run over, gassed or taken out by some over armament the Tumbler has.
AND it hasn't been proven that the Batmobiles armor can stand up to such a powerful round, have we?
This is a simple yes or no question.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
😆 Nice try.I can understand Wayne industries creating a tire that stands up to small arms fire, but one that stands up to .50 caliber rifle fire? Dude, get real. The tires have to be rubber, or at least rubber based, or he would not have any traction. What you are suggesting is fantasy, almost like giving Batman a damn lightsaber.
The gear I am going to list is gear that is real life shit, stuff that snipers are trained to use.
Tell you what, give me a few examples of gadgets Batman has that arent shown in the movie.
I never actually thought you'd pull such bullshit, but you have.
No, we'll use precisely what they have in the movies, since it's about characters in movies and what they have. You pulled that on me just now about the tyres, they aren't in the MOVIE so they aren't allowed.
Therefore, only Swagger's gear in HIS movie is allowed. Not hypothetical bs shit.
Stuff he has actually only ever used in the movie, and has been explicitly stated as using.
You list them, go on. Don't dodge now. I can't suggest something very possible, because it's not in the movie, I accept that as a rule.
So Swagger only gets what he used in the movie. That's fair, and if you're not trying to slant this in his favour, you will accept it, or you'll accept that Wayne Industries have quite possibly, if not likely, equipped the Batmobile with tyres that can withstand his rifle.
I'm not gonna list shit Batman doesn't have in the movies, I'm interested in keeping this fair. Not taking Batman down to your level of "Give him shit he's never used.".
So is that how you adhere to requests you're scared of? Fire one right back? I deny your request, this is about movie versions. I am not giving Batman anything IN his favour that has not been in the movie. Movie versions, movie equipment.
So now what does Swagger have left?
Bearing in mind, if you dodge this, we'll get embroiled in another pages long debate about criteria, I'll have to get a mod to come and correct you AGAIN. Just specify what he now has, if we're going by what is used and seen to be used in the movies.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Because thats how it went down, man. If Mattie had stepped in and decreed it so, then I would say I changed it due to forum rules.
He did, he said if it's not movie Swagger he's closing it. Keep up.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha CentauriThink about this. Lets pretend that I say "Include everything Batman is trained to use, movies and comics alike." What are some examples of what Batman would use?
I never actually thought you'd pull such bullshit, but you have.No, we'll use precisely what they have in the movies, since it's about characters in movies and what they have. You pulled that on me just now about the tyres, they aren't in the MOVIE so they aren't allowed.
Therefore, only Swagger's gear in HIS movie is allowed. Not hypothetical bs shit.
Stuff he has actually only ever used in the movie, and has been explicitly stated as using.
You list them, go on. Don't dodge now. I can't suggest something very possible, because it's not in the movie, I accept that as a rule.
So Swagger only gets what he used in the movie. That's fair, and if you're not trying to slant this in his favour, you will accept it, or you'll accept that Wayne Industries have quite possibly, if not likely, equipped the Batmobile with tyres that can withstand his rifle.
I'm not gonna list shit Batman doesn't have in the movies, I'm interested in keeping this fair. Not taking Batman down to your level of "Give him shit he's never used.".
So is that how you adhere to requests you're scared of? Fire one right back? I deny your request, this is about movie versions. I am not giving Batman anything IN his favour that has not been in the movie. Movie versions, movie equipment.
So now what does Swagger have left?
Thats not a dodge, I am genuinely curious.
Ideally we make our own individual lists and compromise, meet in the middle, if you will, to avoid any arguments about who has what.
He did, he said if it's not movie Swagger he's closing it. Keep up.I decided on movie Swagger before he said anything, if I remember correctly.-AC
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Think about this. Lets pretend that I say "Include everything Batman is trained to use, movies and comics alike." What are some examples of what Batman would use?Thats not a dodge, I am genuinely curious.
Ideally we make our own individual lists and compromise, meet in the middle, if you will, to avoid any arguments about who has what.
It is a dodge, because you aren't adhering to the request I made FIRST. Do that, that'll be a start.
I've already told you, I don't care if you said that. It would BENEFIT Batman, but I am not going to entertain it because it's not movies. If it's not in the movie, he doesn't get it. I'm not a hypocrite, you are.
Compromise? Not really, no. They've got it in the movie or they haven't. If you are not slanted and biased toward Swagger, you'll list what he uses in the movie, so we can all be clear, and THEN I'll list everything Batman has at his disposal from movies, and maybe we can get some kind of a more sensible discussion going.
So now I've replied to your request twice, so reply to mine and stop dodging.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha CentauriYou sure you want to go this route?
It is a dodge, because you aren't adhering to the request I made FIRST. Do that, that'll be a start.I've already told you, I don't care if you said that. It would BENEFIT Batman, but I am not going to entertain it because it's not movies. If it's not in the movie, he doesn't get it. I'm not a hypocrite, you are.
Compromise? Not really, no. They've got it in the movie or they haven't. If you are not slanted and biased toward Swagger, you'll list what he uses in the movie, so we can all be clear, and THEN I'll list everything Batman has at his disposal from movies, and maybe we can get some kind of a more sensible discussion going.
So now I've replied to your request twice, so reply to mine and stop dodging.
-AC
Also, you said: you'll list what he uses in the movie, so we can all be clear, and THEN I'll list everything Batman has at his disposal from movies
You mean everything Batman is SHOWN using in the movies, right?
Do you plan to ever stop dodging?
List what Swagger has shown in the movie, then I'll do the same for Batman. I'll answer no more of your questions until you do. If anyone else were to do what you are now, you'd be so fast to claim dodging, and have done. Stop being a hypocrite.
I recommend nobody else indulge you either, until you have done so.
-AC
Originally posted by Rogue JediNo but it has ran through numerous concrete obsticles and in "The Dark Knight" The Tumbler took a shot from The Joker's RPG! If it can take that, a 50. Cal round shouldn't be much. Also in the begginning of the film it took a barrage of bullets from automatic weapons from some thugs when it was in the "Loiter" mode. In the major chase scene it took a massive garbage truck full on, still attaining it's current speed and it didn't appear damaged.
Imagine away, but we havent seen the Batmobile stand up to a .50 caliber rifle round, have we? It shoots through an inch of STEEL, man.AND it hasn't been proven that the Batmobiles armor can stand up to such a powerful round, have we?
Fact: The Tumbler is bulletproof.
Originally posted by Alpha CentauriDude, if you have seen Shooter, the list is in your head, just as Batmans list is in my head. But, if it will cease your constant whining, here we go:
Do you plan to ever stop dodging?List what Swagger has shown in the movie, then I'll do the same for Batman. I'll answer no more of your questions until you do.
I recommend nobody else indulge you either, until you have done so.
-AC
WEAPONRY/GEAR
.50 Caliber sniper rifle
Bolt Action Sniper rifle (Guessing it is a .308 caliber)
Assault Rifle, I believe it is an M4-A1 assault rifle
Sidearm (let's say glock .45)
Combat Knife
Garrote
Pipe Bombs (remote detonated)
Smoke bombs (remote detonated)
Ghille suit
Camouflage (whatever environment he is in he is virtually invisible)
Binoculars
Not to mention his counter intel training and hand to hand combat skills, tough as nails demeanor, or his amazing resourcefulness.
Did I miss anything?