cable's matter manipulation WAS powerful enough to break even the surfer's board while doing many other impressive things. but i dont know how it would fare against sum1 like doomsday. for one thing, doomsday written well, as we have seen, can destroy even the antimonitor. i dunno, depends on the writers.
^erm, i really dont think thats true. when he fought surfer he was pretty much using his own energy as a shield, and surfer took his arm off and it didnt regrow, and then he was labotomised and that didnt heal and the alien baby thingie had to be brought in to substitute for his t.o. virus. where did u get that from?
Originally posted by leonheartmm
^erm, i really dont think thats true. when he fought surfer he was pretty much using his own energy as a shield, and surfer took his arm off and it didnt regrow, and then he was labotomised and that didnt heal and the alien baby thingie had to be brought in to substitute for his t.o. virus. where did u get that from?
How do you think he healed himself when he ripped apart from Deadpool every time they teleported into each other?
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l54/Markymark_016/CableDeadpool006-13.jpg
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l54/Markymark_016/CableDeadpool006-14.jpg
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l54/Markymark_016/CableDeadpool07200420.jpg
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l54/Markymark_016/CableDeadpool07200421.jpg
Also he pretty much says it himself.:
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l54/Markymark_016/CableDeadpool005-15.jpg
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l54/Markymark_016/CableDeadpool005-16.jpg
(The gift he is talking about is Deadpool's regen, and you see he heals from the wounds received from Lightmaster)
Also, SS blew off the arm that was completely TO virus.
Originally posted by OualladaSee how you are twisting up my argument? Guy was not only surprised but assessed DD's speed to be greater than Flash's. It's a big difference to say one is moving like (equal or in the vicinity of) Flash vs. one is moving faster than Flash. The latter implies that one knows what he is talking about. GLs, like SS, have traveled many lightyears in a mere moment. The crisis didn't affect them either. By your reasoning this should give them very good reflexes indeed.
You look both sides before you cross the road. I would advise the same amount of discretion before you throw out more of your poor, and subjective criticism.From me.
Your response. You stating that GLs being surprised by Doomsday's speed automatically qualifies the latter as flash-level is absurd, as you compared GLs' reflexes to that of humans, a completely irrelevant comparison and proxy as far as having Flash-level speed and reflexes go.
Your fallacy is the equating of strength. Guy wasn't equating speeds but inequating speeds (DD>>Flash). See the difference. Now if a human says that Colossus is stronger than Mangog then this implies that indeed Colossus is stronger (or has shown greater strength). But since Colossus isn't stronger, then a human wouldn't say that Colossus is stronger than Mangog but rather he is strong like Mangog. They could possibly say it though if Colossus has shown greater strength than Mangog, which in itself is something.
By that coin, saying that Colossus has Mangog-level strength by saying that he is in a league way above normal humans, while pre-qualifying the latter by stating that humans are in turn stronger than a random small animal should be validated. It isn't, even though the individual statements are correct, because said statements are utterly irrelevant where Mangog is concerned. If that flies over you, let me use a more parallel example. Can an entity be placed in Mangog's level simply because it is outside Colossus' strength league, which is in turn justified by the latter being outside the league of normal humans?
I admit it was a folly to even argue the logic GL has great reflexes.
My argument is not strictly based off who said what but rather what was the writer's intention and the fact that a being (doesn't matter which one) used an inequality to compare.
It is moot whether or not DD moves as fast as Flash since it is very reasonable that he will move faster than Cable can react.
Originally posted by h1a8
See how you are twisting up my argument? Guy was not only surprised but assessed DD's speed to be greater than Flash's. It's a big difference to say one is moving like (equal or in the vicinity of) Flash vs. one is moving faster than Flash. The latter implies that one knows what he is talking about. GLs, like SS, have traveled many lightyears in a mere moment. The crisis didn't affect them either. By your reasoning this should give them very good reflexes indeed.
I fail to see how or why I need to twist a poor argument. If I had a dollar for everytime A states that B hits the hardest/is the strongest/is the fastest etc, I would be substituting toilet rolls for hundred dollar bills. As entities who are nowhere near flash-level in terms of speed or reflex, I don't see why you are kicking up a fuss about someone calling shenanigans on your interpretation. Feel free to rebutt the points that I made previously.
Originally posted by h1a8Your fallacy is the equating of strength. Guy wasn't equating speeds but inequating speeds (DD>>Flash). See the difference. Now if a human says that Colossus is stronger than Mangog then this implies that indeed Colossus is stronger (or has shown greater strength). But since Colossus isn't stronger, then a human wouldn't say that Colossus is stronger than Mangog but rather he is strong like Mangog. They could possibly say it though if Colossus has shown greater strength than Mangog, which in itself is something.
There isn't a difference because Guy is in no position whatsoever to comment on speeds. The fact that he says something absurd like Doomsday being faster than flash takes credence away from that statement, not otherwise.
My analogy had nothing to do with a human's perspective, but that of the third person omniscient. Read my analogy again before misinterpreting.
Originally posted by h1a8I admit it was a folly to even argue the logic GL has great reflexes.
My argument is not strictly based off who said what but rather what was the writer's intention and the fact that a being (doesn't matter which one) used an inequality to compare.
The usage of an inequality is irrelevant due to the sheer absurdity of the statement. For a person who argued vehemently that WWH was not stronger than his previous incarnations despite on-panel labellings by other characters and writer intention (both of which are your criteria) simply because he did not BFR every opponent he faced, I wonder why you feel so at ease with claiming that Doomsday is flash-level when he got tagged plenty of times in DoS.
As to using a writer's intention, you are welcome to using them as your bible, as doomsday prophets are welcome to hold signs proclaiming impending doom. I'm welcome to not take it seriously either, for reasons previously stated.
Originally posted by h1a8It is moot whether or not DD moves as fast as Flash since it is very reasonable that he will move faster than Cable can react. [/B]
This point is moot because the debate isn't about whether Cable can react to such speed.
^ Booster Gold was the one who was exclaiming that Doomsday was faster than Flash. Guy Gardner said that he couldn't track Doomsday's movements. Neither of which impresses me. Hell, I can barely keep track of a professional football or basketball player's movements. And that's when I'm watching them on screen. If I were on the field or court with them, fuggedaboutit. There's a reason we need slow motion and instant replay, after all.
Originally posted by Mindset
How do you think he healed himself when he ripped apart from Deadpool every time they teleported into each other?
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l54/Markymark_016/CableDeadpool006-13.jpg
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l54/Markymark_016/CableDeadpool006-14.jpghttp://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l54/Markymark_016/CableDeadpool07200420.jpg
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l54/Markymark_016/CableDeadpool07200421.jpg
Also he pretty much says it himself.:http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l54/Markymark_016/CableDeadpool005-15.jpg
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l54/Markymark_016/CableDeadpool005-16.jpg
(The gift he is talking about is Deadpool's regen, and you see he heals from the wounds received from Lightmaster)Also, SS blew off the arm that was completely TO virus.
then why is it, when he is shot in the head and stops the bullet from penetrating much further than his skull, that the alien virus immedietly claims that part of his body to HEAL him and claim a greater part of him? if he really had regenerative powers, he wudnt need the alien virus to do that wud he? also, how come he said that domino cud kill him when all she had was a knife to his head, and also, how come when prominence was destroyed, that every1 considered him dead INCLUDING deadpool if he made it THAT obvious. the GIFT he was talking about was his life . cable does not have a healing factor like deadpool. and the fact that cable cudnt regenerate himself from being labotomised is evidence enough of his having no such abilityy, much less the fact that he says that his time is runnig out to surfer, who in contrast is PRACTICALLY AGELESS/IMMORTAL, if cable had the healing factor, he too obviously wud be ageless and practically immortal.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
then why is it, when he is shot in the head and stops the bullet from penetrating much further than his skull, that the alien virus immedietly claims that part of his body to HEAL him and claim a greater part of him? if he really had regenerative powers, he wudnt need the alien virus to do that wud he? also, how come he said that domino cud kill him when all she had was a knife to his head, and also, how come when prominence was destroyed, that every1 considered him dead INCLUDING deadpool if he made it THAT obvious. the GIFT he was talking about was his life . cable does not have a healing factor like deadpool. and the fact that cable cudnt regenerate himself from being labotomised is evidence enough of his having no such abilityy, much less the fact that he says that his time is runnig out to surfer, who in contrast is PRACTICALLY AGELESS/IMMORTAL, if cable had the healing factor, he too obviously wud be ageless and practically immortal.
Cable should have been able to heal from parts of his brain altered to remove his powers, and yet Deadpool couldn't heal from having his brain surgically altered so he would want to kill Cable? Yea, that makes a whole lot of sense... ❌
Cable's telekinetic and telepathic powers were burning out when he fought SS, what does that have to do with his healing factor?
All the times you mentioned where Cable didn't heal from damage wasn't God-Like Cable, that wasn't even Cable's original body so of course he no longer had his healing factor. Don't you remember when Deadpool brought back a baby Cable from an alternate reality?
I suggest you read Cable/Deadpool again.
While Cable was at the height of his power he had a healing factor like the scans I posted showed. 🙂
And about the gift, after Lightmaster slashes through Cable in an attempt to kill him, Cable says: Not a bad move at all, nice shot to. Of course you didn't take into account I recently acquired a gift from a friend." Then later on the same page it shows him healing from the wounds he got from Lightmaster. It is obviously talking about him getting a hf from Deadpool. How would it even make sense that he would be saying Deadpool's gift to him was life?
Originally posted by OualladaShow me a scan saying that A hits harder/goes faster than B when it is obviously wrong.
I fail to see how or why I need to twist a poor argument. If I had a dollar for everytime A states that B hits the hardest/is the strongest/is the fastest etc, I would be substituting toilet rolls for hundred dollar bills. As entities who are [b]nowhere near flash-level in terms of speed or reflex, I don't see why you are kicking up a fuss about someone calling shenanigans on your interpretation. Feel free to rebutt the points that I made previously. [/B]
Why? GLs have some great reaction feats. Remember they are not bound by the crisis. I'm sure Guy has seen Flash in action many many times. He should know what he is talking about. Again, who in comics have ever said faster/stronger when it is obviously wrong? And this is comics, where suspension of disbelief exists?There isn't a difference because Guy is in no position whatsoever to comment on speeds. The fact that he says something absurd like Doomsday being faster than flash takes credence [b]away
from that statement, not otherwise.[/B]
Then your analogy is irrelevant to my post. For you must use an analogy that doesn't use the third person omniscient.
My analogy had nothing to do with a human's perspective, but that of the third person omniscient. Read my analogy again before misinterpreting.
Why is it sheer absurdity? DD blitzed the entire team (including Superman) simultaneously. If DD is not as fast as Flash then he is close it by what he showed. So there is a big difference between slight exaggeration and sheer absurdity. And as far as DD getting tagged, all speedsters get tagged by slower enemies (even SS). This is a comic law.
The usage of an inequality is irrelevant due to the sheer absurdity of the statement. For a person who argued vehemently that WWH was not stronger than his previous incarnations despite on-panel labellings by other characters and writer intention (both of which are your criteria) simply because he did not BFR every opponent he faced, I wonder why you feel so at ease with claiming that Doomsday is flash-level when he got tagged plenty of times in DoS.
Why isn't it? As far as I can tell if Cable can react to DD then he wins via BFR and if he can't then he loses. This is the key to the whole debate.
This point is moot because the debate isn't about whether Cable can react to such speed.
Originally posted by h1a8
Show me a scan saying that A hits harder/goes faster than B when it is obviously wrong.
Respect threads. Take a look.
Now, show me with issue numbers or scans how your inference is nothing more than wishful thinking.
Originally posted by h1a8
Why? GLs have some great reaction feats. Remember they are not bound by the crisis. I'm sure Guy has seen Flash in action many many times. He should know what he is talking about. Again, who in comics have ever said faster/stronger when it is obviously wrong? And this is comics, where suspension of disbelief exists?
That is completely irrelevant to the fact that Flash is so far above Guy in terms of speed that he cannot logically make that inference, which is a point that you seem to either not understand or are ignoring on purpose. How many times have on-panel narration stated Hulk to be the most powerful creature to walk the earth?
Suspension of disbelief is when I accept tactile kinesis. Suspension of logic is when you accept hyperbole and writer speculation.
Originally posted by h1a8
Then your analogy is irrelevant to my post. For you must use an analogy that doesn't use the third person omniscient.
Nonsense. In which form are 99.9% of comics written?
Originally posted by h1a8
Why is it sheer absurdity? DD blitzed the entire team (including Superman) simultaneously. If DD is not as fast as Flash then he is close it by what he showed. So there is a big difference between slight exaggeration and sheer absurdity. And as far as DD getting tagged, all speedsters get tagged by slower enemies (even SS). This is a comic law.
You must have been reading another comic, because he certainly did not blitz the entire team simultaneously, and the fact that watchers-by could actually see the fight says a lot about the speeds involved. Yes, there is a difference ebtween slight exaggeration and sheer absurdity. Unfortunately, your statements do not qualify.
For a person who evokes "comic law", I find it amusing that you question why WWH wasn't BFRing everyone with punches. Or is that logical leeway one that you reserve at your own discretion?
Originally posted by h1a8Why isn't it? As far as I can tell if Cable can react to DD then he wins via BFR and if he can't then he loses. This is the key to the whole debate.
That isn't what I am pointing out. I am pointing out the silliness in saying that Doomsday is flash-level based simply on hyperbole and writer intention.
Originally posted by OualladaMaybe, but I doubt it.
Respect threads. Take a look.[B]I've seen a lot of them. Still don't remember seeing what you are talking about.
[QUOTE][B]
Now, show me with issue numbers or scans how your inference is nothing more than wishful thinking.
[QUOTE]
That is completely irrelevant to the fact that Flash is so far above Guy in terms of speed that he cannot logically make that inference, which is a point that you seem to either not understand or are ignoring on purpose. How many times have on-panel narration stated Hulk to be the most powerful creature to walk the earth? 'A' being faster than 'B' doesn't mean that B can't necessarily guage A's speed. And Flash is only faster than Guy in terms of reflex speed. Remember Guy has SS like traveling speed through space. And Hulk is or was potentially the most powerful creature on Earth (the time it was said). I aggree with that 100%.
No! Hyperbole doesn't exist anymore if it can be backed up. And DD has backed it up.
Suspension of disbelief is when I accept tactile kinesis. Suspension of logic is when you accept hyperbole and writer speculation.
Nonsense. In which form are 99.9% of comics written?
Read the comic again (The Death of Superman) and you will clearly see him blitzing just about the whole team simultaneously. This is where Superman himself is complaining about his speed.You must have been reading another comic, because he certainly did not blitz the entire team simultaneously, and the fact that watchers-by could actually see the fight says a lot about the speeds involved. Yes, there is a difference ebtween slight exaggeration and sheer absurdity. Unfortunately, your statements do not qualify.
No. Sometimes I try to win debates using other's logic, just to show them that character A will still win. I learned that many have a problem my own logic. So many times, I reduce myself to theirs. This is because it is sometimes a waste of time to convince others that your logic is correct when you can just show them the win using theirs. The net effect is the same (only more efficient).
For a person who evokes "comic law", I find it amusing that you question why WWH wasn't BFRing everyone with punches. Or is that logical leeway one that you reserve at your own discretion?
You forget to mention blitzing people like he's a Flash and making someone who has some of the greatest reflexes in comic history to complain about his speed. DD having Flash-like speed is closer to the truth than to hyperbole.
That isn't what I am pointing out. I am pointing out the silliness in saying that Doomsday is flash-level based simply on hyperbole and writer intention.
Originally posted by h1a8If Wally West complained about DOS Doomsday speed, you might have a point. If anybody other than Byrne (I-get-knocked-out-bygas-station-explosions-and-can't-reach-light-speed) Superman complained, you might have a point. Fact is, Wally didn't even have top-tier speedster speed back then and Superman was FAR slower back then. All you have is Booster Gold and Guy Gardner complaining about his speed. Hell... people complain about Savage Hulk's surprising speed all the time. Doesn't turn him into a super-speedster.
You forget to mention blitzing people like he's a Flash and making someone who has some of the greatest reflexes in comic history to complain about his speed. DD having Flash-like speed is closer to the truth than to hyperbole.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
If Wally West complained about DOS Doomsday speed, you might have a point. If anybody other than Byrne (I-get-knocked-out-bygas-station-explosions-and-can't-reach-light-speed) Superman complained, you might have a point. Fact is, Wally didn't even have top-tier speedster speed back then and Superman was FAR slower back then. All you have is Booster Gold and Guy Gardner complaining about his speed. Hell... people complain about Savage Hulk's surprising speed all the time. Doesn't turn him into a super-speedster.
Byrne Superman can still pick bullets out of the air like they're motionless. He can travel to the other side of the world in less than a second. And GLs light year speed feats are canon in Pre-Crisis era. If someone with grade A reflexes and speed complain about Savage Hulk's speed then you would have a point.
Originally posted by h1a8Not that I approve of this type of proof myself... but is PC Superman's word good enough for you:
Byrne Superman can still pick bullets out of the air like they're motionless. He can travel to the other side of the world in less than a second. And GLs light year speed feats are canon in Pre-Crisis era. If someone with grade A reflexes and speed complain about Savage Hulk's speed then you would have a point.
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