Originally posted by Da Joker
...Btw, did anyone here hear about the guy who made a review saying he didn't like TDK and some crazy ass batfans threatened to kill him?...
About the 'joke' I made in bad taste earlier...can actors actually be nominated after they've passed away? rip
Well... TDK is the best movie of this year so far, and probably one of the best movies of the last 3 or 4 years. And if the movie wasn't amazing, people wouldn't be raving about it- I mean, seriously. If it was just 'average', people wouldn't become fanatics, anyway.
It's not the 'best movie ever', duh. But can any movie truly be ranked as the best ever? No, I don't think so. It's the best movie of its genre, most definetly, but I don't think it can be compared to... say, the Godfather. Remember, some people are whiny b*tches because TDK upstaged 'classics' like Schindler's List and Shawshank Redemption on ImdB, because thy have a tough time accepting a modern movie that is as good as the 'classics'.
IMO, Heath Ledger deserves an oscar, this movie deserves a nomination for Best Picture (which it won't get, because the b*tches will flame and the Academy will never give a 'mere superhero movie!' that award), and Christopher Nolan deserves a nomination for best director. Still, it's not a flawless movie, and I'll be the first to admit that.
Originally posted by agphoenix
You're f'in kidding me right? THAT is insane. Just a rumour or did you actually read an official report because that is horrible. Forums are one thing, threatening someone's life...About the 'joke' I made in bad taste earlier...can actors actually be nominated after they've passed away? rip
A guy on another forum posted it in his own thread, and a bunch of others had heard of it as well. The guy who threatened him just sounded like one of those fat guys who sit behind their computer and hide behind their comics.
Yes, they can. To my understanding it's happened before.
Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Well, it won't be the first time it happened. I heard that the Spider fans sent threat mail to people who bashed the Spider-Man movies, and the LotR fans... ugh. You don't wanna know.Batman fans aren't the worst. Not even close.
However there are a few here on KMC that take the Joker persona alittle too seriously.
Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Well... TDK is the best movie of this year so far, and probably one of the best movies of the last 3 or 4 years. And if the movie wasn't amazing, people wouldn't be raving about it- I mean, seriously. If it was just 'average', people wouldn't become fanatics, anyway.It's not the 'best movie ever', duh. But can any movie truly be ranked as the best ever? No, I don't think so. It's the best movie of its genre, most definetly, but I don't think it can be compared to... say, the Godfather. Remember, some people are whiny b*tches because TDK upstaged 'classics' like Schindler's List and Shawshank Redemption on ImdB, because thy have a tough time accepting a modern movie that is as good as the 'classics'.
IMO, Heath Ledger deserves an oscar, this movie deserves a nomination for Best Picture (which it won't get, because the b*tches will flame and the Academy will never give a 'mere superhero movie!' that award), and Christopher Nolan deserves a nomination for best director. Still, it's not a flawless movie, and I'll be the first to admit that.
Originally posted by Almighty Bauer
🙄
You make me ashamed to have liked the Dark Knight. Seriously. Jesus Christ...
The Shawshank Redemption is only 14 years old and made **** all money when it first came out so I don't know if that counts as a 'classic'; it's not old enough to get nostalgic about, but it's still a better film than the Dark Knight. Considerably better.
And is the Dark Knight really the best in its genre? It's certainly better than most of the films we've had to put up with lately, but, if it can't be compared to the Godfather, how can it be compared to Superman, a film far more different, in tone, to the Dark Knight than even the Godfather.
Comparing films is extremely hard, especially when they've just come out, because certain people get so caught up in their love for the film (heck, I've been guilty of that) that they overestimate quite how good the film was. I rated the Dark Knight as a 10/10, but only for what it was. As a Batman story, it was perfect, but honestly, comparing it to Shawshank is foolish. There's only one winner.
I didn't say it was better than Shawshank or the Godfather- I can't make the comparison, and thus, I wouldn't dare say it was better than those films. I said ImdB ranks it above them, which proves that people REALLY liked the film. Seriously, it's a matter of taste, but I wouldn't claim "The Dark Knight is teh best movie eva!!!". Seriously, though, it's much better than certain 'classics'. Chill, dewd. You misunderstood me. I'm not one of the crazy TDK fans who scream "IT'S THE BEST MOVIE EVER MADE!!!". Lol.
I think that TDK was so damned successful because of the following reasons:
1. Heath Ledger. He's dead, and he's portraying one of the greatest and most popular villains in history. And he gave a spectacular performance- I've already said that he deserves to be mentioned alongside people like Anthony Hopkins as Hannibal Lecter.
2. Batman. So many Batman fans all over the world, seriously- give them a Batman movie that is relatively faithful to the comics, and you have an immediate recipe for success. Major success.
3. Lots of excellent action sequences, so 'summer movie' fans at least have some of what makes summer movies so much fun.
4. Thought-provoking, disturbing themes, so 'non-summer movie' fans have what they like. See, there's something in TDK for everyone.
Oh, and Joker guy, check out some of what critics wrote if they gave bad reviews to the Spider movies. Seriously, lol, you wouldn't believe some of the story. However, they don't compare the LotR cultists. It's just... scary...
Oh, and by the way, I'm just using the Joker avatar because it looks really, really cool, and he has just about the coolest quotes ever. Seriously. The people who take the Joker seriously are like that crazy dude who tried to rob something dressed like the Joker. That's just... ugh.
Originally posted by Master Crimzon
I didn't say it was better than Shawshank or the Godfather- I can't make the comparison, and thus, I wouldn't dare say it was better than those films. I said ImdB ranks it above them, which proves that people REALLY liked the film. Seriously, it's a matter of taste, but I wouldn't claim "The Dark Knight is teh best movie eva!!!". Seriously, though, it's much better than certain 'classics'. Chill, dewd. You misunderstood me. I'm not one of the crazy TDK fans who scream "IT'S THE BEST MOVIE EVER MADE!!!". Lol.I think that TDK was so damned successful because of the following reasons:
1. Heath Ledger. He's dead, and he's portraying one of the greatest and most popular villains in history. And he gave a spectacular performance- I've already said that he deserves to be mentioned alongside people like Anthony Hopkins as Hannibal Lecter.
2. Batman. So many Batman fans all over the world, seriously- give them a Batman movie that is relatively faithful to the comics, and you have an immediate recipe for success. Major success.
3. Lots of excellent action sequences, so 'summer movie' fans at least have some of what makes summer movies so much fun.
4. Thought-provoking, disturbing themes, so 'non-summer movie' fans have what they like. See, there's something in TDK for everyone.
Oh, and Joker guy, check out some of what critics wrote if they gave bad reviews to the Spider movies. Seriously, lol, you wouldn't believe some of the story. However, they don't compare the LotR cultists. It's just... scary...
Oh, and by the way, I'm just using the Joker avatar because it looks really, really cool, and he has just about the coolest quotes ever. Seriously. The people who take the Joker seriously are like that crazy dude who tried to rob something dressed like the Joker. That's just... ugh.
Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, it's certainly one in...comicatic (😐) history.
Yeah, there's no denying that. I think that's sort of the problem, the fans of the comics are enthralled to see a performance so true to the villain they know and love, that they make statements like "he's one of the best villains in cinematic history", without really thinking about what they're claiming.
I said one of the best and popular villains period. Comic book Joker is widely considered to be the greatest comic book villain ever, and Wizard magazine called him the greatest villain of all time. Even Jack Nicholson's Joker was voted the no. 45 greatest villain in Cinematic history, and I think that if he got that spot, I'm pretty sure that Heath Ledger's (superior, more villainous performance) deserves a spot among the greatest villains ever.
I mean, seriously. Darth Vader, H. Lecter, even the Wicked Witch of the West are called some of the greatest villains in cinematic history. Why doesn't Heath Ledger's Joker deserve to be mentioned among them? I mean, seriously. He's one of the most freaky, disturbing, well-acted, and entertaining villains I've seen in a long time. Let's just say that I couldn't help smiling like a maniac every time he walked on the set. And I wasn't a big fan of the Joker character before TDK, mind you.
To quote you from another thread:
Originally posted by Master Crimzon
But, most importantly of all, Heath Ledger's Joker is easily one of the greatest villains of cinematic history.
I don't particularly want to talk about the comics, as I know nothing of them, never read one. I'd rather talk about something I know about - cinema.
I can accept you thinking that he's in the top 50 villains, because it'd be quite weird if he wasn't. When you said "one of the greatest villains in cinematic history", I assumed you meant like...top five material, not in the greatest fifty.
Originally posted by Master Crimzon
I mean, seriously. Darth Vader, H. Lecter, even the Wicked Witch of the West are called some of the greatest villains in cinematic history. Why doesn't Heath Ledger's Joker deserve to be mentioned among them? I mean, seriously. He's one of the most freaky, disturbing, well-acted, and entertaining villains I've seen in a long time. Let's just say that I couldn't help smiling like a maniac every time he walked on the set. And I wasn't a big fan of the Joker character before TDK, mind you.
I disagree.
Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Why? Please, do explain. I'd love to debate you on that (and I'll try to keep it more... err.. civilized this time).
I agree that it was well acted. I didn't find it disturbing at all, though, not in the slightest.
Was he entertaining? Yes, charismatic? Yes, however, this doesn't instantly put him along side the greatest villains in cinema.
We've gone over this so many times already, so if this is yet again going to go no where, I'd rather we not bother.
There's no questioning the fact that Ledger was very good. My problem with such a claim is that I think people's judgement (including mine) may be affected by the hype of the film and how recently it came out. In 10 years, if you were to watch Hannibal, the Dark Knight and Star Wars, would the comparison still feel justified in your mind? Or, more importantly, in the minds of the public-at-large?
To be honest, yes, I feel the comparison would be justified- Jack Nicholson's Joker is considered to be one of the greatest comic book portrayals ever (until Heath came along, at least), and was still remembered as one of the greatest cinematic villains. Sure, he wasn't as iconic as Hannibal or Vader, but he was still considered to be very, very good.
Then Heath came along. Seriously, even generally cynical movie critics are raving about his performance and his role; I like Vader, and I like Hannibal. But Heath's Joker is an amazing piece of cinema, and to be honest, I can't find a reason why it's not as good as Vader or Hannibal.
I've never actually properly explained why I like Heath Ledger's Joker (and the comic book Joker, in general) so much:
-His attitude towards dying, getting beaten up, and general. As Alfred said, 'some men cannot be bullied'; and I find the most unsettling villain to be one that doesn't care what you do to him. The Emperor from Star Wars, for example, who is one of my favorite villains of all time, was still very much afraid of death- but Heath's Joker just laughs maniacally when he seemingly plummets to his death and when Batman beats his sh*t up. I find that truly unsettling.
-His maniacal love for chaos. I mean, once again, it's quite incredible to see a villain with no motive other than watching people running, screaming; total anarchy. As the comic book Joker once said, "I do violence because it's fun!". Heath Ledger's Joker is very much the same, and the pleasure he finds in killing people is... creepy, to say the least.
-Heath's charisma and acting. I don't think I need to go on.
-His ideals towards rules and all. It makes you wonder... are rules truly necessary? Life is a joke? Would you murder someone if you could? You can't help but thinking of these things while watching the Joker and TDK in general. Oddly enough, I found myself wondering if people can be like the Joker if there were no rules in the world.
-Finally, how he is completely in control of everything within the movie, despite him not following any rules and his attitude towards scheming and such. By letting go of rational thought or planning, he's much more in control of things than Batman, Harvey, or Gordon.
I think I've listed my reasons for why I think Heath's Joker was so good.