Originally posted by Almighty Bauer
Well, the latter half of your title says it all, my man...
[Deep Voice]Youth is not a sin, nor is age an accomplishment.[/Deep voice]
Seriously, though. I'm a proud teenager who proudly loved TDK and who proudly likes the Joker more than Hannibal Lecter. Still, I'm not a raving TDK fan who claims it to be the best movie ever.
...I never suggested that Heath Ledger's portrayal of the Joker is superior to Hannibal, but it's certainly comparable...
...And Hayden Christensen never won an oscar. He's an okay actor, but he's nothing great, either...
...unlike Lecter is truly, completely insane...
...the Joker laughing maniacally as he takes severe beatings and plummets from buildings is unsettling. Many, many characters don't fear death; but what character laughs like they have the time of their life when they're being beaten and nearly killed?...
...A serial killer who kills because it's fun. The guy looks at the entire life as a joke, a cruel joke; and he raises multiple fundamental questions. Like the necessity of rules. Would you be a murderer if you were allowed to be?...
And the essence to the comparison has been made already by Robtard...
...Hannibal's analysis of Foster in the first 10 minutes of them meeting was far creepier and brilliant than anything Health did as the Joker, and that was at the very beginning of the film.
Strange. I actually saw an article somewhere comparing the Joker to Brad Pitt's character in Fight Club. I never saw that movie, anyway. Is it as good as the reviews claim?
Oh, and the Joker's number one crime- driving Harvey Dent insane- is quite possibly sicker than anything Hannibal ever did. You're all fans of 'subtle' things, but in truth, simply saying that feeding on someone's brain is sicker than anything the Joker did is ignoring subtlety. The Joker didn't affect individual people- by driving Harvey insane, he drove the city out of its previous, somewhat elevated mood when Batman and Harvey took down the dangerous criminals, by turning said Harvey into a being as corrupt as himself- someone unstable with virtually no rules. Hannibal killed individual people. The Joker destroyed an entire city's state of mind- and Hannibal has rules. The Joker just kills because it's fun. Hannibal's crimes may appear to be sicker, but the Joker is, overall, a more insane individual (while still maintaining smarts and planning abilities comparable to Lecter's). In the end, the Joker forced Batman to kill Two-Face. The same Batman who, during the course of the movie's first half or so, constantly praised Harvey and hoped for him to be a successor to Batman. And, in the end, the Joker also indirectly forced Batman to kill someone- namely, Two-Face. Seriously. I won't be surprised if he completely destroyed Batman psychologically- he certainly drove the city insane, and gave crime an opening to rise again.
Maybe I'm a raving Joker fan. Maybe you are a raving Hannibal fan. But who are you- or myself, for that matter- to judge?
Edit: *sigh* Another edit *sigh*. AC, the same thing applies to both the Joker and Hannibal, actually. They're both smarter than potentially any 'sane' man.
Originally posted by Master Crimzon
I really love how I can never argue here without five people ganging up on me...
Like you said though, everyone IS entitled to their own opinion. But DISCUSSING (psst...not 'arguing'😉 those opinions is exactly what we're here to do. I'm not ganging up on you brother. 🙂 Just having a decent time talking about things we all have in common...this forum and its contents.
...(using the media as a weapon. Am I the only one who noted this?
I know you mentioned you're a teenager, but hey, here's to more DISCUSSION between us! cheers
Fair enough. I like your way of thinking. 😉
Well, I do know that many of TDK's themes aren't unique or anything, but they portrayed the 'media assaults' in a fairly unique way. BUT- I can hardly think of any single movie that challenged the concept of rules and their necessity, nor asked you what you would do if you were allowed to. Can you think of a movie like that?
Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Strange. I actually saw an article somewhere comparing the Joker to Brad Pitt's character in Fight Club. I never saw that movie, anyway. Is it as good as the reviews claim?Oh, and the Joker's number one crime- driving Harvey Dent insane- is quite possibly sicker than anything Hannibal ever did. You're all fans of 'subtle' things, but in truth, simply saying that feeding on someone's brain is sicker than anything the Joker did is ignoring subtlety. The Joker didn't affect individual people- by driving Harvey insane, he drove the city out of its previous, somewhat elevated mood when Batman and Harvey took down the dangerous criminals, by turning said Harvey into a being as corrupt as himself- someone unstable with virtually no rules. Hannibal killed individual people. The Joker destroyed an entire city's state of mind- and Hannibal has rules. The Joker just kills because it's fun. Hannibal's crimes may appear to be sicker, but the Joker is, overall, a more insane individual (while still maintaining smarts and planning abilities comparable to Lecter's). In the end, the Joker forced Batman to kill Two-Face. The same Batman who, during the course of the movie's first half or so, constantly praised Harvey and hoped for him to be a successor to Batman. And, in the end, the Joker also indirectly forced Batman to kill someone- namely, Two-Face. Seriously. I won't be surprised if he completely destroyed Batman psychologically- he certainly drove the city insane, and gave crime an opening to rise again.
Maybe I'm a raving Joker fan. Maybe you are a raving Hannibal fan. But who are you- or myself, for that matter- to judge?
Edit: *sigh* Another edit *sigh*. AC, the same thing applies to both the Joker and Hannibal, actually. They're both smarter than potentially any 'sane' man.
I get that you like the Joker, but he's nowhere near as specifically smart as Hannibal Lecter.
Hannibal Lecter isn't "sick", he's just unusual in the fact that he eats people. He isn't a torturous, maniacal, mean psychopath. He just happens to enjoy eating people.
Joker is "sick" as in he is truly insane. There's an undeniable method to his madness, but unlike Lecter, he probably is mental.
Lecter has everyone in the palm of his hand too.
-AC
Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Strange. I actually saw an article somewhere comparing the Joker to Brad Pitt's character in Fight Club. I never saw that movie, anyway. Is it as good as the reviews claim?
Maybe I'm a raving Joker fan. Maybe you are a raving Hannibal fan. But who are you- or myself, for that matter- to judge?
But that's just my opinion...again.
Back to the annoying raving fans of TDK:
Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Fair enough. I like your way of thinking. 😉
BUT- I can hardly think of any single movie that challenged the concept of rules and their necessity, nor asked you what you would do if you were allowed to. Can you think of a movie like that?
It's a shame you haven't watched it yet...but 'Fight Club' came to my mind the second I finished reading the sentence.
'concept of rules'?
You'll enjoy the following after you've watched 'Fight Club'. [go..go.now]
Spoiler:I swear to you, you'll retract that question above once you've watched the movie. I swear it! 🙂
Rule Number 1:.......................................
Rule Number 2:.......................................etc.
I wasn't referring to you, actually. I was referring to meistergen, who called me a raving Joker fan.
By the way, phoenix, do you actually like Hannibal more than the Joker? I'm just wondering.
And AC, I didn't say the Joker was smarter than Hannibal. Just that he's a sicker, more insane person; and the Joker's planning abilities, like the bank heist, the plan with the hostages, and the corruption of Harvey have all displayed a certain brilliance that Hannibal never displayed, at least in planning. Hannibal, however, is better educated and has a better knowledge of the human mind- I suppose that they're both geniuses, but in an entirely different manner.
Yeah, I heard that Fight Club is good. Is at as good as the movies we're discussing? (Hannibal movies, TDK, Shawshank, etc...)
Originally posted by Master Crimzon
By the way, phoenix, do you actually like Hannibal more than the Joker? I'm just wondering.
...both geniuses, but in an entirely different manner.
Poor Ledger would have had a long career ahead of him, but Sir Anthony Hopkins already has one behind him, and it has made him a better actor overall in my mind. So using that as one of my reasons, I would have to lean towards Lecter.
Yeah, I heard that Fight Club is good. Is at as good as the movies we're discussing? (Hannibal movies, TDK, Shawshank, etc...)
Yes, Hannibal and the Joker are very, very difficult to compare; I still like the Joker better, but Hannibal is an incredible piece of work himself.
I certainly agree with you that Anthony Hopkins is superior to Heath Ledger; just not in that particular performance. Aside from his role in TDK, I was never particularly blown away by Heath. Jack Nicholson's Joker doesn't even come close to these two, however, despite being a great villain and a great performance (Nicholson is one of my favorite actors. Watch him in The Departed if you want to see a recent film in which he's totally brilliant).
And yeah, I guess I'll watch Fight Club. I did hear it was somewhat similar to TDK in some of its themes. Lol.
Originally posted by Master Crimzon
I certainly agree with you that Anthony Hopkins is superior to Heath Ledger; just not in that particular performance. Aside from his role in TDK, I was never particularly blown away by Heath. Jack Nicholson's Joker doesn't even come close to these two, however, despite being a great villain and a great performance (Nicholson is one of my favorite actors. Watch him in The Departed if you want to see a recent film in which he's totally brilliant).
Watch Brokeback Mountain, he's superb in it. As for Nicholson, he didn't particularly impress me in The Departed, much preferred him One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest, The Shining and even The Bucket List.