Punisher vs Xmen

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
If hes Koed how is knowing wether Cyclops is alive or dead relevant? Punisher puts a gun to his head and orders Pete to turn, either Pete turns or Cyclops gets his brains on the floor.

and how would pete know scott is still alive? he's going to take frank at his word and likely get himself killed?

and if there's one thing cyclops has taught the x-men, its that the mission > all. peter knows cyclops would expect him to take down frank if scott was incapacitated...

Thats true but he turned in time against an ordinary guy, not somebody whos managed to shoot DD and Spiderman.

he changed after the bullets were fired, though...

I think so to, but would Frank Castle just put on the War Machine armour and just try to blast them.....nope. He would try to pick them off.

Hes already used sonics to beat DD, he would use something similar for Wolverine, try to snipe Cyclops and he would have to come up with something special for Collosus.

To be quite honest with you I don't think he would use that unless hes desperate.[/B]

he'd have to get each man alone, but sure, he could do it...

Originally posted by Raoul
and how would pete know scott is still alive?

Sorry mate I still don't see how thats relevant, no disrespect or anything I just don't get it. What are your saying if Scott is unconscious that Pete would still think that Scott still has a chance?

Originally posted by Raoul

he's going to take frank at his word and likely get himself killed?

and if there's one thing cyclops has taught the x-men, its that the mission > all. peter knows cyclops would expect him to take down frank if scott was incapacitated...

Mmmm maybe not but im sure that characters let their emotions dictate what they do instead of being cold and logical but I could be wrong.

Originally posted by Raoul

he changed after the bullets were fired, though...

Mmm not sure if its clear cut. Frank can't make the bullets go faster but he can still pull the trigger more quickly and hence making it more diffcult to dodge.

I also think that when Pete started to change he was not enitrely metal...but almost.

Originally posted by Raoul

he'd have to get each man alone, but sure, he could do it...

Agreed.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Sorry mate I still don't see how thats relevant, no disrespect or anything I just don't get it. What are your saying if Scott is unconscious that Pete would still think that Scott still has a chance?

no. im saying that if pete is across the room from him, how would colossus know whether cyclops is still alive or not...

Mmmm maybe not but im sure that characters let their emotions dictate what they do instead of being cold and logical but I could be wrong.

everyone knows frank is a stone cold killer. peter's options are going to be (a)drop his armour, and most likely get him AND scott killed, or (b) take the chance that frank is bluffing or that scott is already dead, and kill frank even if he kills scott...

even i can admit B is the smarter option, and im the last person who wants to see scott's brains decorating the walls...

Mmm not sure if its clear cut. Frank can't make the bullets go faster but he can still pull the trigger more quickly and hence making it more diffcult to dodge. I also think that when Pete started to change he was not enitrely metal...but almost.

he was shifting, but iirc one or two bullets were hitting his skin and still bouncing off, though i could be wrong... his skin changing was always shown as being all of his skin changing at the same time, not like a fade across changing his skin as it passed...

Punisher clears them out

The Punisher loses. There's really nothing he could do to Colossus, and I don't think he could kill one X-Men without avoiding the other two.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
The Punisher loses. There's really nothing he could do to Colossus, and I don't think he could kill one X-Men without avoiding the other two.

Yes there is.

1. Theres a good chance that he has War machine armour.
2. He has a gun in his possession that was capable of blowing through Rhinos hide and could have killed him.
3. He gets help from Stu Clark so likely he would be able to come up with a weapon.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yes there is.

1. Theres a good chance that he has War machine armour.
2. He has a gun in his possession that was capable of blowing through Rhinos hide and could have killed him.
3. He gets help from Stu Clark so likely he would be able to come up with a weapon.

1a. 3 weeks is not enough time for Clarke to rebuild the War Machine armor and for Castle to master it.

1b. Colossus > War Machine

2. Colossus' durability >>> Rhino's durability

3. Clarke is good, but he's no Reed Richards or Doom. Castle can bring down more dangerous foes with Clarke's tech, but let's not go crazy here.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
1a. 3 weeks is not enough time for Clarke to rebuild the War Machine armor and for Castle to master it.

He doesnt have to build it he has it in his possession, and he doesnt neccesarily have to master if he plans himself well.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

1b. Colossus > War Machine

Prove it. Didn't War Machine take on Exodus?

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

2. Colossus' durability >>> Rhino's durability

Even if thats the case it doesnt matter. Its not like Collosus has a massive durability advanatage over Rhino, if that was the case you might have a point. Even if there is a massive difference in durability the gun destoryed part of Rhinos suit and I was under the impression that suit was almost indestructible.

Stu can also can come up with a device to weaken Collosus.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

3. Clarke is good, but he's no Reed Richards or Doom. Castle can bring down more dangerous foes with Clarke's tech, but let's not go crazy here.

He doesnt have to be as good as Doom. Stu was able to come up with weapons that were able to significantly weaken Wonder Man im sure he can think of something to weaken Collosus.

Of course im going crazy Stu was able to create a suit that gave Frank Castle at least class 10 strength in 15mins...theres no way he could come up with something in 3 weeks.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
He doesnt have to build it he has it in his possession, and he doesnt neccesarily have to master if he plans himself well.

How is the War Machine armor going to be a factor in this all if Castle doesn't master using it?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Prove it. Didn't War Machine take on Exodus?

What's your point? What can War Machine really do to harm Colossus, or take him down for that matter?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Even if thats the case it doesnt matter. Its not like Collosus has a massive durability advanatage over Rhino, if that was the case you might have a point.

Um.... yes. Yes, he does. 😐

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Stu can also can come up with a device to weaken Collosus.

Weaken how? I didn't read about the Wonder Man thing, but I'm sure it probably involved siphoning his ionic energy, right? If so, how is that relevant to Colossus, who isn't an energy-based being?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
He doesnt have to be as good as Doom. Stu was able to come up with weapons that were able to significantly weaken Wonder Man im sure he can think of something to weaken Collosus.

Of course im going crazy Stu was able to create a suit that gave Frank Castle at least class 10 strength in 15mins...theres no way he could come up with something in 3 weeks.

My point is, it's all speculation on your part.

Doom has siphoned the Power Cosmic a few times with prep. Is that to say he'd be able to steal the powers of the Living Tribunal or The One Above All if given a year? The way characters are being hyped by their writers, it's a possibility. Thus far, Doom has shown his limitations.

I just re-read Punisher War Journal #12. It looked like Clarke was pulling something out of a crate. It looks to me like he'd already made the suit's technology, but needed a way to graft it onto Castle... unless you want to tell me he thought it up, named it, built it, and customized it for Castle using only a soldering iron and used copper wiring... which is, well, retarded.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
How is the War Machine armor going to be a factor in this all if Castle doesn't master using it?

Because he can use other factors for example he can weaken Collosus before using the armour so if he hasnt mastered it its not a total disaster.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

What's your point? What can War Machine really do to harm Colossus, or take him down for that matter?

Brute force im pretty sure the War Machine armour weapons are powerful enough to deal with Collosus but it wont be easy.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

Um.... yes. Yes, he does. 😐

I also mentioned that the gun destroyed part of his suit. I was under the impression that that suit was nearly indestructible and has taken shots from Hulk etc. So are you seriously tellimg me a gun that is capable of destorying that suit can't hurt Collosus.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

Weaken how? I didn't read about the Wonder Man thing, but I'm sure it probably involved siphoning his ionic energy, right? If so, how is that relevant to Colossus, who isn't an energy-based being?

Yes it did and I knew you wouldn't get the point. The point is he used prep to significantly weaken Wonder Man so why couldn't he use it for Collosus there both powerful bricks. Now since Collosus is made of metal he would obvoulsy use magnetic based weapons.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

My point is, it's all speculation on your part.

Its a prep thread most prep threads involve speculation. You are just makign excuses because Stu ahs not specifically created a weapon

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

Doom has siphoned the Power Cosmic a few times with prep. Is that to say he'd be able to steal the powers of the Living Tribunal or The One Above All if given a year? The way characters are being hyped by their writers, it's a possibility. Thus far, Doom has shown his limitations.

Oh God here we go again. Why on earth are you bringing LT into this? What so you're telling me that Collosus is out of his league. Well I was under the impression Wonder Man > Collosus. Idn't stop him from giving Wonder Man grief did it.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

I just re-read Punisher War Journal #12. It looked like Clarke was pulling something out of a crate. It looks to me like he'd already made the suit's technology, but needed a way to graft it onto Castle... unless you want to tell me he thought it up, named it, built it, and customized it for Castle using only a soldering iron and used copper wiring... which is, well, retarded.

...and he still has the suit and the technology it was still working at the end of the issue so he could most likely build it again in less time.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Because he can use other factors for example he can weaken Collosus before using the armour so if he hasnt mastered it its not a total disaster.

Brute force im pretty sure the War Machine armour weapons are powerful enough to deal with Collosus but it wont be easy.

Weaken him HOW? War Machine's weapons are not gonna be enough to stop Colossus, and he'll get KTFO if he tries to go h2h.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I also mentioned that the gun destroyed part of his suit. I was under the impression that that suit was nearly indestructible and has taken shots from Hulk etc. So are you seriously tellimg me a gun that is capable of destorying that suit can't hurt Collosus.

Colossus' skin >>> Rhino's hide.

Are you saying that gun is more powerful than the Hulk? 😕

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yes it did and I knew you wouldn't get the point. The point is he used prep to significantly weaken Wonder Man so why couldn't he use it for Collosus there both powerful bricks. Now since Collosus is made of metal he would obvoulsy use magnetic based weapons.

Yeah, they're both bricks, but trying a similar energy-siphon attack won't work against Colossus. If the Punisher had a magnetic weapon, he could theoretically immobilize Wolverine and Colossus, but then what's to stop Cyclops from blasting him before he does it, or even while he does it?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Its a prep thread most prep threads involve speculation. You are just makign excuses because Stu ahs not specifically created a weapon

No, you're the one making excuses for the Punisher to win, even though Clarke hasn't been shown to replicate anything more complex than old Iron Man armor.... and that still won't be enough to stop this team.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Oh God here we go again.

That's probably what the rest of us thought when we saw your thread.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Why on earth are you bringing LT into this?

It was to demonstrate the limitations Doom has shown. Clarke has been shown to replicate out-dated Stark tech at best, so until he tops that, that's pretty much the most of what he's capable of.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
What so you're telling me that Collosus is out of his league.

No, I'm telling you the Punisher is out of his league here, even with Clarke's inventions.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well I was under the impression Wonder Man > Collosus. Idn't stop him from giving Wonder Man grief did it.... and he still has the suit and the technology it was still working at the end of the issue so he could most likely build it again in less time.

You keep mentioning a fight with Wonder Man... What issue did he fight with Clarke or the Punisher? I haven't been keeping up with Punisher War Journal lately, and the only thing I've seen with Wonder Man in it was a one-panel flashback of Clarke's past as a supervillain.

Colossus has gotten a serious upgrade and is now Class 100. Until he and Wonder Man have an all-out brawl, we can't say for certain he's still better than Colossus.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Weaken him HOW? War Machine's weapons are not gonna be enough to stop Colossus, and he'll get KTFO if he tries to go h2h.

Colossus' skin >>> Rhino's hide.

Are you saying that gun is more powerful than the Hulk? 😕

Yeah, they're both bricks, but trying a similar energy-siphon attack won't work against Colossus. If the Punisher had a magnetic weapon, he could theoretically immobilize Wolverine and Colossus, but then what's to stop Cyclops from blasting him before he does it, or even while he does it?

No, you're the one making excuses for the Punisher to win, even though Clarke hasn't been shown to replicate anything more complex than old Iron Man armor.... and that still won't be enough to stop this team.

That's probably what the rest of us thought when we saw your thread.

It was to demonstrate the limitations Doom has shown. Clarke has been shown to replicate out-dated Stark tech at best, so until he tops that, that's pretty much the most of what he's capable of.

No, I'm telling you the Punisher is out of his league here, even with Clarke's inventions.

You keep mentioning a fight with Wonder Man... What issue did he fight with Clarke or the Punisher? I haven't been keeping up with Punisher War Journal lately, and the only thing I've seen with Wonder Man in it was a one-panel flashback of Clarke's past as a supervillain.

Colossus has gotten a serious upgrade and is now Class 100. Until he and Wonder Man have an all-out brawl, we can't say for certain he's still better than Colossus.

I can see this discussion isn't going to go anywhere. You are accusing me of speculation while doing the same yourself. Worse speculation though IMO.

Anyway i'll try this last point... *sigh* Stu Clark has created a gun that was able to destory part of Rhinos hide.

No Collosus is not more durable than Rhinos hide. Rhinos hide has taken shots from Hulk and blasts from Silver Surfer that does not mean that the gun was more powerful than the Hulk or Silver Surfer but it means the weapon was more effective.

Cap has Koed Rhino but that does not mean he can punch harder than The Hulk, however since he has Koed Rhino that makes it posible for him to KO other people of similar durability.

Since the gun destroyed Rhinos hide it can put down Collosus. 😐

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I can see this discussion isn't going to go anywhere.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
That's probably what the rest of us thought when we saw your thread.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
You are accusing me of speculation while doing the same yourself. Worse speculation though IMO.

I'm just going by what's been shown, and what has been consistent.

This would be speculation:

"Alfheim wears Punisher jammies to bed."

See the difference? I have nothing to really base that on, aside from your delusions and rampant fanboyism.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
I'm just going by what's been shown, and what has been consistent.

This is speculation:

"Alfheim wears Punisher jammies to bed."

See the difference?

This was my last point see if you can understand this and stop trolling. Hell the only person who has a problem with this thread is you. Nobody else has said that Punsiher is out of his league with the stipulations you came into this thread to cause trouble.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone

Anyway i'll try this last point... *sigh* Stu Clark has created a gun that was able to destory part of Rhinos hide.

No Collosus is not more durable than Rhinos hide. Rhinos hide has taken shots from Hulk and blasts from Silver Surfer that does not mean that the gun was more powerful than the Hulk or Silver Surfer but it means the weapon was more effective.

Cap has Koed Rhino but that does not mean he can punch harder than The Hulk, however since he has Koed Rhino that makes it posible for him to KO other people of similar durability.

Since the gun destroyed Rhinos hide it can put down Collosus. 😐

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
This was my last point see if you can understand this and stop trolling.

Anyway i'll try this last point... *sigh* Stu Clark has created a gun that was able to destory part of Rhinos hide.

No Collosus is not more durable than Rhinos hide. Rhinos hide has taken shots from Hulk and blasts from Silver Surfer that does not mean that the gun was more powerful than the Hulk or Silver Surfer but it means the weapon was more effective.

Cap has Koed Rhino but that does not mean he can punch harder than The Hulk, however since he has Koed Rhino that makes it posible for him to KO other people of similar durability.

Since the gun destroyed Rhinos hide it can put down Collosus.

No, that's not gonna fly with me. Cap has no business knocking out the Rhino either.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Hell the only person who has a problem with this thread is you. Nobody else has said that Punsiher is out of his league with the stipulations you came into this thread to cause trouble.

Raoul doesn't seem convinced the Punisher can do it. Endrict Nuul, xmarksthespot, and llagrok think this thread is silly.

Try again.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
No, that's not gonna fly with me. Cap has no business knocking out the Rhino either.

Well then forget it then. Lots of people on this forum think that Cap can KO Rhino and has hurt and Koed people tougher as well. If you knew Cap and read any of his comics you would know its within his capability.

At the end of the day the gun has the capability of doing it, you're argument is that Collosus is more durable than Rhinos hide, you have no proof and you're argument is nuh-uh.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

Raoul doesn't seem convinced the Punisher can do it. Endrict Nuul, xmarksthespot, and llagrok think this thread is silly.

Try again.

Well Raoul doesnt think the thread is spite anyway. Don't care what Xmarks and llgarok think and Endrict Null thought the thread was spite at first but at least he thinks the War machine armour can take Collosus instead of assuming that Collosus is too tough. So no try again.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well then forget it then. Lots of people on this forum think that Cap can KO Rhino and has hurt and Koed people tougher as well. If you knew Cap and read any of his comics you would know its within his capability.

At the end of the day the gun has the capability of doing it, you're argument is that Collosus is more durable than Rhinos hide, you have no proof and you're argument is nuh-uh.

I'm gonna flip the script in classic Alfheim fashion and ask: What proof do you have that Rhino's hide is just as durable as Colossus?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Don't care what Xmarks and llgarok think and Endrict Null thought the thread was spite at first but at least he thinks the War machine armour can take Collosus instead of assuming that Collosus is too tough.

So we'll just assume War Machine is too tough for Colossus, right?

You still haven't answered how the Punisher will pull it off without sufficient training with the War Machine armor. You don't just get on a submarine for three weeks and milk it the rest of the way through enemy lines.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
I'm gonna flip the script in classic Alfheim fashion and ask: What proof do you have that Rhino's hide is just as durable as Colossus?

*sigh* go back and read what I said about Rhinos hide and stop wasting my time. You're not flipping anything you're just being a troll.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Or assume War Machine is too tough for Colossus, right?

LOL im not....I just think that the weapons are powerful enough to take down Collosus with difficulity, that is a reasonable stance. War Machine armour is one of Starks more impressive inventions. Just assuming that Collosus is going to be too tough is very unreasonable.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

You still haven't answered how the Punisher will pull it off without sufficient training with the War Machine armor. You don't just get on a submarine for three weeks and milk it the rest of the way through enemy lines.

I have actually how about you address this point of the gun.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone

At the end of the day the gun has the capability of doing it, you're argument is that Collosus is more durable than Rhinos hide, you have no proof and you're argument is nuh-uh.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I have actually... Because he can use other factors for example he can weaken Collosus before using the armour so if he hasnt mastered it its not a total disaster.

Wow... I stand corrected. Gotta watch out for those other factors. They can be dangerous.

The gun was able to down the Rhino, who isn't nearly as durable as Colossus.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Wow... I stand corrected. Gotta watch out for those other factors. They can be dangerous.