Punisher vs Xmen

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Wow... I stand corrected. Gotta watch out for those other factors. They can be dangerous.

and I explained he has created tech that was able to weaken Wonder Man and hence he can think of something that can weaken Collosus. Eventhough he has never craeted a weapon to stop Collosus I think if we look at his showings its within his capability. 😬

Doom has never weakened a Celestial but I think its within his capability if I look at his other showings.

Anyway im not particulary bothered because I don't think he would go for The War Machine option, only as a last resort.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

The gun was able to down the Rhino, who isn't nearly as durable as Colossus.

..and this is why you're trolling I also mentioned his hide...

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
and I explained he has created tech that was able to weaken Wonder Man and hence he can think of something that can weaken Collosus. Eventhough he has never craeted a weapon to stop Collosus I think if we look at his showings its within his capability. Anyway im not particulary bothered because I don't think he would go for The War Machine option, only as a last resort.
😬

Again... what kind of weapon is going to stop this one X-Man, and how is Castle going to drop him while avoiding the other two? Energy-siphoning isn't going to work because Colossus isn't an energy-based being. Anything powerful enough to kill Colossus is more than likely going to kill all four of them, if it's already not out of Clarke's capabilities. A magnetic weapon could work well enough against Colossus and Wolverine, but it leaves him open to Cyclops' optic blasts. Use of firearms requires focus on one target at a time for at least a few moments, leaving him susceptible to attack from the other two. The War Machine wouldn't be much help due to Frank's inexperience in using it.

You still haven't told me in which issue the Wonder Man fight appeared.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Doom has never weakened a Celestial but I think its within his capability if I look at his other showings.

Doom has stolen the powers of Galactus and the Beyonder, both whom should be above a Celestial-- and all three are energy-based beings. Of course it's within his means. That's the point-- he's already accomplished greater things. You're speculating Clarke can invent these miraculous weapons, when we've never seen him with anything more advanced than out-dated Iron Man tech. If he could, he'd have used it to try and wipe out Tony a few times by now.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
..and this is why you're trolling I also mentioned his hide...

I'm not trolling; I'm disagreeing. You've really done nothing but throw out a few ham-handed claims in favor of the Punisher, and with almost no real support for them.

Rhino's hide has been ruined on one occasion by Spider-Man using acidic webbing. It should hold up decently against blunt force, like the Hulk fights. The Silver Surfer is notorious for holding back, but the blast should've still wrecked his outfit, but for artistic purposes or laziness, the illustrator chose to leave it intact.

That wasn't the case with The Punisher vs. The Rhino, however, because the artist was trying to emphasize the power of the gun (which I believe uses concussion force rather than heat/energy). That's cool, but even with Rhino's own momentum, it failed to penetrate his own flesh and only broke a few of his ribs. He was hurt, but was well enough to pick a drunken fight with Armadillo shortly afterward at Stiltman's funeral.

Cool weapon, but not as strong as you're making it out to be. What's it going to do to someone much more durable than the Rhino?

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Again... what kind of weapon is going to stop this one X-Man, and how is Castle going to drop him while avoiding the other two? Energy-siphoning isn't going to work because Colossus isn't an energy-based being. Anything powerful enough to kill Colossus is more than likely going to kill all four of them, if it's already not out of Clarke's capabilities. A magnetic weapon could work well enough against Colossus and Wolverine, but it leaves him open to Cyclops' optic blasts. Use of firearms requires focus on one target at a time for at least a few moments, leaving him susceptible to attack from the other two. The War Machine wouldn't be much help due to Frank's inexperience in using it.

You still haven't told me in which issue the Wonder Man fight appeared.

Doom has stolen the powers of Galactus and the Beyonder, both whom should be above a Celestial-- and all three are energy-based beings. Of course it's within his means. That's the point-- he's already accomplished greater things. You're speculating Clarke can invent these miraculous weapons, when we've never seen him with anything more advanced than out-dated Iron Man tech. If he could, he'd have used it to try and wipe out Tony a few times by now.

I'm not trolling; I'm disagreeing. You've really done nothing but throw out a few ham-handed claims in favor of the Punisher, and with almost no real support for them.

Rhino's hide has been ruined on one occasion by Spider-Man using acidic webbing. It should hold up decently against blunt force, like the Hulk fights. The Silver Surfer is notorious for holding back, but the blast should've still wrecked his outfit, but for artistic purposes or laziness, the illustrator chose to leave it intact.

That wasn't the case with The Punisher vs. The Rhino, however, because the artist was trying to emphasize the power of the gun (which I believe uses concussion force rather than heat/energy). That's cool, but even with Rhino's own momentum, it failed to penetrate his own flesh and only broke a few of his ribs. He was hurt, but was well enough to pick a drunken fight with Armadillo shortly afterward at Stiltman's funeral.

Cool weapon, but not as strong as you're making it out to be. What's it going to do to someone much more durable than the Rhino?

1. You are dictating to me what characters should or should not be able to do despite the fact they've been shown to be able to do it for years. You just want to dispute it because it doesn't fit your point of view.

2. When something happens in a comic that doesn't suit your point of view you what to start dictating what the artist intended.

I could answer your post in detail but since you want to argue nu-uh its obvoulsy going to be a waste if time. Go and pester somebody else....oh and you're refering to the wrong Punisher issue. doh

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Look..

1. You are dictating to me what characters should or should not be able to do despite the fact they've been shown to be able to do it for years. You just want to dispute it because it doesn't fit your point of view.

2. When something happens in a comic that doesn't suit your point of view you what to start dictating what the artist intended.

I could answer your post in detail but since you want to argue nu-uh its obvoulsy going to be a waste if time. Go and pester somebody else....oh and you're refering to the wrong Punisher issue. doh

So what you're saying is that you really have no idea how The Punisher can realistically pull this off without getting himself beaten to a pulp or killed? I'm really not that surprised. You do the whole Cartman "Screw you, guys... I'm going home!" bit whenever your claims are challenged, and you can't back them up with some real proof or even a decent argument.

You mentioned earlier that most prep threads are speculative, but they are always determined by what Character A has been shown capable of with prep. Doom has created the first time machine, siphoned the energies from at least 3 cosmic or abstract beings, held his own in Hell, etc. Reed Richards is just as formidable with prep. Both have been doing this for years, and it's not unimaginable for them to do anything beneath those feats.

Stuart Clarke? He has not been around as the Punisher's sidekick for years and years. The greatest demonstrations of his skill were recreating old Iron Man tech and his Rampage suit which granted him superhuman strength and durability-- not enough to defeat these 3 X-Men. However, you want to claim that he's got even greater potential simply because he hasn't shown it yet. Maybe so, but at this point it's only wishful thinking on your part. Otherwise, one can go ahead and say that Marvel's top tier martial artists can potentially throw Hadoken fireballs, but haven't been shown to do it because they've never really tried, yet could if they did.

The Punisher shot the Rhino in PWJ #3, and the Rhino-Armadillo fight was in PWJ #4. It damaged his suit, likely broke a few ribs, and maybe caused some internal bruising. However, he was still well enough to pick a fight with Armadillo and continue on in a super-powered bar room brawl. A gun like that could take out Cyclops and Wolverine (if only momentarily) but not Colossus, whose durability is on another level than Rhino's. There's really nothing that could drop Colossus fast enough to avoid Cyclops and Wolverine, or vice versa. Castle will be outnumbered, overpowered, and overwhelmed.

Cyclops = range + power
Wolverine = durability + speed
Colossus = strength + durability

Before now, I've only referenced PWJ #17 because it's the only thing I've seen anything linking Stuart Clark to Wonder Man. It was a one-panel scene without any mention of weakening him by any means. By my own admission, I haven't read PWJ #13-16 or anything after #17. So why not just answer the friggin' question and tell the rest of us where this happened or where it was mentioned?

So far the only thing I've been able to find was a wiki article, stating that Clarke outfitted himself and a few homeless buddies with Rampage suits, injured Beast, and then got their collective asses handed to them by Wonder Man. If Clarke did weaken Wonder Man, well, great. Where the Hell did it happen? And how is it relevant to Clarke's inventions weakening Colossus? Back your G.D. claims and quit turning into an intellectual hermit crab when you get called out on your half-assed general statements. This is a debate forum, for f***'s sake.

Fastball Special/Claw City/Optic Blast/Colossus sh**-stomp for the win 8-9/10.

I think he would have a good shot against them one on one and probably own Cyclops one on one but as a team not so much. It's been mentioned already that Scott is a good strategist and so is Wolverine. Also the Punisher has to keep track of 3 people so there's a good chance one of them will be free to melee at some point. I would think they would use some sort of a distraction technique such as letting Cyclops shoot beams at him while Logan and Colossus do that speed blitz thing where Colossus throws Wolverine at people at high speeds. That suit may be powerful but is it more powerful than Adamantium? I'm pretty much thinking the punisher is gonna get stabbed in the back of the head or something damaging enough to stop the fight.

phantomzone you one big masochist, ya damn psycho!!! whip

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
So what you're saying is that you really have no idea how The Punisher can realistically pull this off without getting himself beaten to a pulp or killed? I'm really not that surprised. You do the whole Cartman "Screw you, guys... I'm going home!" bit whenever your claims are challenged, and you can't back them up with some real proof or even a decent argument.

No not at all I engaged with Raoul in a debate because he was reasonable you are just wasting my time.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

You mentioned earlier that most prep threads are speculative, but they are always determined by what Character A has been shown capable of with prep. Doom has created the first time machine, siphoned the energies from at least 3 cosmic or abstract beings, held his own in Hell, etc. Reed Richards is just as formidable with prep. Both have been doing this for years, and it's not unimaginable for them to do anything beneath those feats.

Stuart Clarke? He has not been around as the Punisher's sidekick for years and years. The greatest demonstrations of his skill were recreating old Iron Man tech and his Rampage suit which granted him superhuman strength and durability-- not enough to defeat these 3 X-Men. However, you want to claim that he's got even greater potential simply because he hasn't shown it yet. Maybe so, but at this point it's only wishful thinking on your part. Otherwise, one can go ahead and say that Marvel's top tier martial artists can potentially throw Hadoken fireballs, but haven't been shown to do it because they've never really tried, yet could if they did.

The Punisher shot the Rhino in PWJ #3, and the Rhino-Armadillo fight was in PWJ #4. It damaged his suit, likely broke a few ribs, and maybe caused some internal bruising. However, he was still well enough to pick a fight with Armadillo and continue on in a super-powered bar room brawl. A gun like that could take out Cyclops and Wolverine (if only momentarily) but not Colossus, whose durability is on another level than Rhino's. There's really nothing that could drop Colossus fast enough to avoid Cyclops and Wolverine, or vice versa. Castle will be outnumbered, overpowered, and overwhelmed.

Cyclops = range + power
Wolverine = durability + speed
Colossus = strength + durability

Before now, I've only referenced PWJ #17 because it's the only thing I've seen anything linking Stuart Clark to Wonder Man. It was a one-panel scene without any mention of weakening him by any means. By my own admission, I haven't read PWJ #13-16 or anything after #17. So why not just answer the friggin' question and tell the rest of us where this happened or where it was mentioned?

So far the only thing I've been able to find was a wiki article, stating that Clarke outfitted himself and a few homeless buddies with Rampage suits, injured Beast, and then got their collective asses handed to them by Wonder Man. If Clarke did weaken Wonder Man, well, great. Where the Hell did it happen? And how is it relevant to Clarke's inventions weakening Colossus? Back your G.D. claims and quit turning into an intellectual hermit crab when you get called out on your half-assed general statements. This is a debate forum, for f***'s sake.

Fastball Special/Claw City/Optic Blast/Colossus sh**-stomp for the win 8-9/10.

Yes you're refering to the wrong comic. 😬 Ive already stated why I dont want to respond to your post anything that doesnt suit your view you simply deny it. You are not debating. Go away.

Originally posted by socool8520
I think he would have a good shot against them one on one and probably own Cyclops one on one but as a team not so much. It's been mentioned already that Scott is a good strategist and so is Wolverine. Also the Punisher has to keep track of 3 people so there's a good chance one of them will be free to melee at some point. I would think they would use some sort of a distraction technique such as letting Cyclops shoot beams at him while Logan and Colossus do that speed blitz thing where Colossus throws Wolverine at people at high speeds. That suit may be powerful but is it more powerful than Adamantium? I'm pretty much thinking the punisher is gonna get stabbed in the back of the head or something damaging enough to stop the fight.

Yes Cyclops is a master strategist but so is Punisher as well and he has an advanatge of 3weeks and hi tech weapons deisgned to take out the X-men.

Originally posted by Sado22
phantomzone you one big masochist, ya damn psycho!!! whip

Yeah I know boredeom really.

Seriously wtf is the point of this thread?

Dakota Fanning could beat these X-Men in a versus thread if I were to bullshit about her having a full-body ruby quartz shield, magnetic repulsion technology sufficiently strong and the Saint of Killers' Colts, because she has "prep."

Is that supposed to make Dakota look badass?

And if she had the Satan Claw, she could KTFO of the Punisher and leave him in tears, ala Molly Hayes.... only more glamorous.

😏

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Seriously wtf is the point of this thread?

Dakota Fanning could beat these X-Men in a versus thread if I were to bullshit about her having a full-body ruby quartz shield, magnetic repulsion technology sufficiently strong and the Saint of Killers' Colts, because she has "prep."

Is that supposed to make Dakota look badass?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
No its not. Theres a reason why Stu Clark gives Punisher the tech to hunt down criminals instead of him doing it himself

Laziness? Not giving enough of a fuck?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Laziness?

😬

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
No not at all I engaged with Raoul in a debate because he was reasonable you are just wasting my time.

Yes you're refering to the wrong comic. 😬 Ive already stated why I dont want to respond to your post anything that doesnt suit your view you simply deny it. You are not debating. Go away.

Yes Cyclops is a master strategist but so is Punisher as well and he has an advanatge of 3weeks and hi tech weapons deisgned to take out the X-men.

Yeah I know boredeom really.

Yeah I'm just sayin the X-men have 2 strategists and the Punisher is al by himself. It's not impossiblle, but it would be extremely difficult which is why I give the majority to the X-men

Originally posted by socool8520
Yeah I'm just sayin the X-men have 2 strategists and the Punisher is al by himself. It's not impossiblle, but it would be extremely difficult which is why I give the majority to the X-men

Thats fair enough really, bare in mind though that Punisher has beaten Wolverine with no prep at all and has shown to be arguably better at prep than Captain America.

To be quite honest with you I might still give the majority to the X-men eventhough Pun is very good and has his weapons, the other three have alot of exprience working with each other and have dealt with death traps before.

I think Pun can take Wolverine and Cyclops but the big problem is gonna be Collosus.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Thats fair enough really, bare in mind though that Punisher has beaten Wolverine with no prep at all and has shown to be arguably better at prep than Captain America.

To be quite honest with you I might still give the majority to the X-men eventhough Pun is very good and has his weapons, the other three have alot of exprience working with each other and have dealt with death traps before.

I think Pun can take Wolverine and Cyclops but the big problem is gonna be Collosus.

Yeah, but hasn't Logan handed the Punisher his anus as well? But given the fact that he has a super suit it would tip the odds in his favor if it was just Logan and Scott and I agree that the big factor would be Colossus in this scenario. i think if you took out either Colossus or Logan, Punisher's chances go up., but as it stands, the X-team takes it most of the time.

Originally posted by socool8520
Yeah, but hasn't Logan handed the Punisher his anus as well?

Punisher has beaten Wolverine more times than Wolverine has beaten him. Two times without prep and one with.

One time the fight between Wolverine lasted for a whole comic before Pun was beaten the other time Wolverine beat Pun he had just fought a Gorilla and Pun did well considering he didn't know who Wolverine was and he was already tired. Hell when Wolverine attacked he was wondering what the hell was going on.

Originally posted by socool8520

But given the fact that he has a super suit it would tip the odds in his favor if it was just Logan and Scott and I agree that the big factor would be Colossus in this scenario. i think if you took out either Colossus or Logan, Punisher's chances go up., but as it stands, the X-team takes it most of the time.

I think you're really underestimating Punisher even if had the suit hes not going to go in guns blazing and I think its unlikley that he would use it. Wolverines not much of a threat in this scenerio.

the last page of this thread is giving me a bloody headache...

the whole point of getting something like a supersuit would be to mix it up... you can't get in a suit like that and then try to be stealthy, even if it had a silent running mode...

as far as ruby quartz goes, its not something that's just lying around in marvel, the only people with any sort of large supply is the hellfire club, and that was years ago...

Originally posted by Raoul
the last page of this thread is giving me a bloody headache...

the whole point of getting something like a supersuit would be to mix it up... you can't get in a suit like that and then try to be stealthy, even if it had a silent running mode...

Not really you can still be tactical even if you have the suit, you don't have to be stealthy but you can still be smart. However I think he probably won't use it, if he does he will probably use a venomtech suit.

Originally posted by Raoul
the last page of this thread is giving me a bloody headache...

the whole point of getting something like a supersuit would be to mix it up... you can't get in a suit like that and then try to be stealthy, even if it had a silent running mode...

as far as ruby quartz goes, its not something that's just lying around in marvel, the only people with any sort of large supply is the hellfire club, and that was years ago...

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Not really you can still be tactical even if you have the suit, you don't have to be stealthy but you can still be smart. However I think he probably won't use it, if he does he will probably use a venomtech suit.

ban

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Since the gun destroyed Rhinos hide it can put down Collosus. 😐

Rhino's hide may very well be durable against brick hits but can still be incinerated or cut through...

There's nothing to say that the damage output from that gun was = to Hulk's or even similar at all for that matter. 😐