Originally posted by lord xyzvoting doesn't = citizenship
Well I think felons should vote, but how does voting = citizenship?
it = one of the basic rights of citizenship. so if we take that away we are reducing one's citizenship. another basic right garanteed by the constitution is the right to gun ownership. this is another right denied to ex felons.
i agree with you that felons should be allowed to vote, i disagree that we have any obligation to grant anybody who isn't from here citizenship, especially if they have a questionable past. i only used the comparison to demonstrate our country's current attitude towards our own ex felons, which is that they are generally citizens to a lesser degree.
so the notion that felons from other countries have a 'right' to be citizens here when innocent people are turned away every day is just laughable. citizenship to one particular country isn't a 'right' to anyone who isn't from that country.
Originally posted by Devil King
What group might that be?
You know the cute thing is that in any form of civilization, all the capital works together.
The rich are rich because of the many people who are not as "well off."
Today, the rich are rich because of the poor (through the system of capitalism).
We all pay taxes. They cut more than a quarter of my check before I even see it so I don't give a damn.
Originally posted by red g jacksWasn't the whole idea of going to America, starting new lives and forgetting the past? I mean, it's on the statue of liberty, is it not? In any case, anyone can change their ways, they went to your country because they hated theirs so much and wanted to start a new life, why not give it to them?
voting doesn't = citizenshipit = one of the basic rights of citizenship. so if we take that away we are reducing one's citizenship. another basic right garanteed by the constitution is the right to gun ownership. this is another right denied to ex felons.
i agree with you that felons should be allowed to vote, i disagree that we have any obligation to grant anybody who isn't from here citizenship, especially if they have a questionable past. i only used the comparison to demonstrate our country's current attitude towards our own ex felons, which is that they are generally citizens to a lesser degree.
so the notion that felons from other countries have a 'right' to be citizens here when innocent people are turned away every day is just laughable. citizenship to one particular country isn't a 'right' to anyone who isn't from that country.
Originally posted by lord xyz
Wasn't the whole idea of going to America, starting new lives and forgetting the past? I mean, it's on the statue of liberty, is it not? In any case, anyone can change their ways, they went to your country because they hated theirs so much and wanted to start a new life, why not give it to them?
Right, because everyone is reformed when they come to America, just like they are reformed when they come to the UK. They NEVER commit any of the same crimes they committed in their own countries or abroad.
ooor, maybe I'm missing your sarcasm?
Originally posted by KidRock
The top 5% earners in the country.
it is so odd, to me at least, how people who are not part of this 5%, will never be part of this 5%, are actively harmed by this 5% and have completely different political/social/moral interests than this 5% ultimately become personally offended by the idea that they may pay more taxes.
you have the biggest heart of them all Kid Rock. The very same people who hope you never become wealthy are the very same you want to keep money and power. That IS what Jesus would do. Of all the problems affecting people that are in a similar situation to yourself, you selflessly promote the issues of the very few elites, at the expense of yourself and everyone else in your situation. Such sacrifice, such care for minorities.
St. Kid Rock perhaps?
Originally posted by lord xyzer... don't think anything about reforming felons is on the statue of liberty.. last time i checked it's "give us your poor, your tired, your huddled masses longing to be free..". But even if it was on the statue of liberty that was a different point in time. give us your poor then, sure, becuase then we could use the boost in the work force. obviously we can't support an infinite amount of people so that promise would have to end at some point.
Wasn't the whole idea of going to America, starting new lives and forgetting the past? I mean, it's on the statue of liberty, is it not? In any case, anyone can change their ways, they went to your country because they hated theirs so much and wanted to start a new life, why not give it to them?
as for modern day we haven't reached the limit but we have reached the point where we can certainly do without the felons along with a large portion of the unskilled workers. like it or not that's how it works.
Originally posted by KidRock
The top 5% earners in the country.
What you expect me to do is answer this question like a communist or a socialist that say that that 5% earn so much that they need to pay more than I do because I make less than 250,000 or 100,000 dollars a year. But the problem is that those 5% pay way less of a percentage of their millions or billions than you or I do on our hundreds or thousands. When you butt the figures up against each other the numbers are certainly impressive in regards to the taxes paid by that 5%, but the numbers should be much further apart than they are.
I'll toss out a nice liberal figure for you to consider, just to make you happy. The oil industry has posted a 12 Billion dollar profit for the last year. Many people would say that no one is considering that they have to pay into 401K's or share-holder investment or that they spend millions in alternative fuel research. But that is simply not the case. There's a reason that 12 billion dollar number is being called "profit". And if the Wall Street figures are doctored to neglect the money spent on operating costs or research or stock-holder returns, then the industry is guilty of lying and selling itself to investors under false pretense. Now, why don't you compare the percentage of taxes they pay to the percentage of taxes you pay on your yearly income. Not to mention the hundreds of millions of dollars that aren't reported from the get-go. I'm unaware of a legal tax shelter that involves paying off middle-eastern oil suppliers.
I'm not saying that Obama is going to take the White House ansd solve all our problems. He's just running on the ticket that makes a few less bones about stealing our money and raping the economy in the process while not giving one damned thing back. At least a few poor kids will attend college until the Republicans get back into office and charge them twice what their education is worth in interest. If you're old enough, you'll notice both sides of this election are calling for change while espousing the same tired old, useless-ass rhetoric of just about every other campign of the last 40 years.
What disturbs me the most about this country is that the "little guy" on both sides agree on what needs to happen but both sides refuse to act accordingly. If you want change then storm Washington DC with a million pissed off home-loaners and take the government back. But until then, we olny have two options. And I, personally, prefer the one that is going to do more for me.
Originally posted by chithappens
You know the cute thing is that in any form of civilization, all the capital works together.The rich are rich because of the many people who are not as "well off."
Today, the rich are rich because of the poor (through the system of capitalism).
We all pay taxes. They cut more than a quarter of my check before I even see it so I don't give a damn.
And the even cuter thing is the poor actually have jobs because of the rich CEO's and businessmen in the country.
Originally posted by KidRock
And the even cuter thing is the poor actually have jobs because of the rich CEO's and businessmen in the country.
what is the point you are making?
so you agree that the rich align to concentrate power in the elite, but this is ok because it provides employment to those who can never access that power?
maybe I'm reading this wrong...
Originally posted by KidRock
Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) on Friday announced an "Emergency Economic Plan" that would give families a stimulus check of $1,000 each, funded in part by what his presidential campaign calls "windfall profits from Big Oil."The first part of Obama's plan is an emergency energy rebate ($500 to individual workers, $1,000 to families) as soon as this fall.
"This rebate will be enough to offset the increased cost of gas for a working family over the next four months," Obama said. "Or, if you live in a state where it gets very cold in the winter, it will be enough to cover the entire increase in your heating bills. Or you could use the rebate for any of your other bills or even to pay down debt."
Separately, Obama's plan includes a $50 billion stimulus package that his campaign claims would save more than 1 million jobs.
Half of the money would go to state governments, which are facing big budget shortfalls, and half would be used for national infrastructure, including replenishing the Highway Trust Fund, rebuilding roads and bridges, and repairing schools.
[B]Obama announced his plan 27 minutes after a Labor Department report showed unemployment hit a four-year high of 5.7 percent in July - the highest rate since March 2004, when it was 5.8 percent.
"We need to do more," Obama said in a statement. "That's why today I'm announcing a two-part emergency plan to help struggling families make ends meet and get our economy back on track.
McCain reacted to the surprisingly dour jobs report with a two-paragraph statement: "Across this country, Americans are hurting and today's job numbers are just the latest reminder of the economic challenges we face. ... Unlike Sen. Obama, I do not believe that raising taxes is the answer to our economic problems. There is no surer way to force jobs overseas than to raise taxes on businesses.
Obama announced his plan for a windfall profits tax on oil companies on June 9 in Raleigh, N.C., as he launched a two-week economic tour after clinching the Democratic nomination.
Friday's proposal says Obama "is proposing to offset the cost of his emergency energy rebates over the next five years by enacting a windfall profits tax on big oil companies."
"Obama simply asks that big oil companies contribute a reasonable share of the windfall profits they receive from high oil prices over the next five years to pay for emergency assistance for families right now," the campaign says. [/B]
Werent Democrats against the stimulus package?
Originally posted by inimalist
what is the point you are making?so you agree that the rich align to concentrate power in the elite, but this is ok because it provides employment to those who can never access that power?
maybe I'm reading this wrong...
The point is people always whine about the "rich getting rich off the poor" yet nobody seems to realize the poor actually have jobs because of the rich, the door swings both ways.
Why did you quote yourself right after you first typed it?
Originally posted by KidRock
The point is people always whine about the "rich getting rich off the poor" yet nobody seems to realize the poor actually have jobs because of the rich, the door swings both ways.
How does a single mother waiting tables have that job because of the rich?