Is it God's will for you to go to hell?

If God know's all then he knows how a particular person is going to live and die. Knowing all, God would have to be full aware of the choices that person would make in his life. If this person leads himself to damnation through a life full of sin. It is something that God would have to be aware of even before this person was breathed into existence. Does God create these people with a destiny to end up in hell? I suppose i am getting into calvinism here. We are, all of us predestined for either heaven or hell. If this is true...,God creates people destined for hell. It obviously destroy's the "free will" theory, but even more, what is the point?

I hope that i was able to convey this thought clearly. It is very late, or early for for me.

Its not predestined because its up to you to do it...you don't have a fixed fate.

Time is a silly concept you really need to forget about.

If I go in a time machine, go forward 50 years and see you with two grandchildren and a pet cat called Minx living in New York that does not mean you a predestined to have that fate...its just the sum of the choices you make...

Well, if you're a Calvinist it apparently is predestined.

Hell doesn´t exist, its a mistranslation form Hades (Greek) and Sheol (Hebrew) which actually means "the common grave of humankind"-
So you just going so cease to exist-

The Churches brought in the hell idea to scare the crap out of people so they´d join the club and be saved, yep murder and rape then do a bit of praying and rosary beads, and your saved yippee.

Originally posted by ragesRemorse
If God know's all then he knows how a particular person is going to live and die. Knowing all, God would have to be full aware of the choices that person would make in his life. If this person leads himself to damnation through a life full of sin. It is something that God would have to be aware of even before this person was breathed into existence. Does God create these people with a destiny to end up in hell? I suppose i am getting into calvinism here. We are, all of us predestined for either heaven or hell. If this is true...,God creates people destined for hell. It obviously destroy's the "free will" theory, but even more, what is the point?

I hope that i was able to convey this thought clearly. It is very late, or early for for me.

In the Bible, in Genève, Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit. God condemned them out of the Garden of Eden. This presents a concept, very important in the biblical view of the human; free will.

The humans can decide to follow God's path and good, or be tempted by Satan the Deceiver.
Good knows what will happen, God knows what will be done at the end of the world, and God knows the heart of each humans. We have our free will, and even if God knows how we will live our life, his vision is not bestowed upon us by force, we still act by our free will.

Don't underestimate the concept of free will here. If one wished to act bad, he will pay the price. God cannot destroy the evil ones, for he wishes for the humans to learn a lesson; that is way of love is the only way to follow for peace in Heaven.

Take a teacher, for example. He shows his way to solve a problem. A kid in the class gets up and tells him he's wrong. Will the teacher either throw the kid out (losing respect from the other students), or would he simply ask him to try? The rebel will try and fail, without the help of the teacher, he will be put to his place, and the class can continue, the rebel having lost credibility and the teacher shining more tnan ever. This is the way of life on this earth for humans.

And again, God does not control free will. Only us do. Think about that.

(And hell means total destruction when God revives everyone. If you go to hell, you get destroyed.) 😉

Yep we have free will, but if we do certain things then were in trouble, where the free will in that?

If God created everything & is the almighty and all that, then he must have know what would happen, so it isn´t anybodys fault but God´s.

Or he knew what would happen and its all part of some plan.

Yes, it is God's fault. And he takes the blame. But what was done cannot be undone. He can't just destroy the world he made, for he would take the chances of some humans to live their life. He doesn't want to force the humans into listening to him, he wants to make them understand that it is only his way that can work. God takes all the blame, and that is why he must not be criticized.

Christian concepts of free will generally attempt to skirt such issues of predestination, that the paradox (to believers) doesn't exist. Of course, it doesn't make the Christian concept of free will any more coherent than it is (which isn't much) but it's a handy way out of such disturbing implications as God making people destined for hell.

So it's really kind of a wash. Christians have beliefs that make the question irrelevant, since predestination doesn't exist in their opinions and free will does. Non-Christians don't believe in the Christian God in the first place, and some don't believe in hell or free will, so they have no reason to attempt to reconcile the question either, since the question's premise is flawed in their opinions. Therefore, any side can easily reconcile the so-called problem, they just do it through different means.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Christian concepts of free will generally attempt to skirt such issues of predestination, that the paradox (to believers) doesn't exist. Of course, it doesn't make the Christian concept of free will any more coherent than it is (which isn't much) but it's a handy way out of such disturbing implications as God making people destined for hell.

So it's really kind of a wash. Christians have beliefs that make the question irrelevant, since predestination doesn't exist in their opinions and free will does. Non-Christians don't believe in the Christian God in the first place, and some don't believe in hell or free will, so they have no reason to attempt to reconcile the question either, since the question's premise is flawed in their opinions. Therefore, any side can easily reconcile the so-called problem, they just do it through different means.

You have succeeded wrapping a complex problem into a beautiful package. But packages are opened again at Christmas.

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Its not predestined because its up to you to do it...you don't have a fixed fate.

Are you saying god has no idea what is going to happen?

There is a fixed date for humanity, but not for individual humans. I think that's what he meant.

Well, then let's wait for him to respond to the question I asked him and we'll find out what he meant together.

Seems liek a good plan 😛

Originally posted by Mandos
In the Bible, in Genève, Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit. God condemned them out of the Garden of Eden. This presents a concept, very important in the biblical view of the human; free will.

The humans can decide to follow God's path and good, or be tempted by Satan the Deceiver.
Good knows what will happen, God knows what will be done at the end of the world, and God knows the heart of each humans. We have our free will, and even if God knows how we will live our life, his vision is not bestowed upon us by force, we still act by our free will.

Don't underestimate the concept of free will here. If one wished to act bad, he will pay the price. God cannot destroy the evil ones, for he wishes for the humans to learn a lesson; that is way of love is the only way to follow for peace in Heaven.

Take a teacher, for example. He shows his way to solve a problem. A kid in the class gets up and tells him he's wrong. Will the teacher either throw the kid out (losing respect from the other students), or would he simply ask him to try? The rebel will try and fail, without the help of the teacher, he will be put to his place, and the class can continue, the rebel having lost credibility and the teacher shining more tnan ever. This is the way of life on this earth for humans.

And again, God does not control free will. Only us do. Think about that.

(And hell means total destruction when God revives everyone. If you go to hell, you get destroyed.) 😉

I do believe we have free will and choose our own path in the end, but lately i have been struggling with the idea that God is infallible. We may have free will, but does God not know which path we will ultimately choose? Maybe, God creates each one of us with two separate fates. One leads to salvation and the other leads to damnation and it is up to us to choose. God still has to know which we will choose before we do. If he doesn't, does this make him fallible? If it doesn't make him fallible then what? If he does know which path we will choose in the end. He creates certain people knowing that they will choose damnation over salvation.

Originally posted by ragesRemorse
I do believe we have free will and choose our own path in the end, but lately i have been struggling with the idea that God is infallible. We may have free will, but does God not know which path we will ultimately choose? Maybe, God creates each one of us with two separate fates. One leads to salvation and the other leads to damnation and it is up to us to choose. God still has to know which we will choose before we do. If he doesn't, does this make him fallible? If it doesn't make him fallible then what? If he does know which path we will choose in the end. He creates certain people knowing that they will choose damnation over salvation.

When someone is created just because God knows the ultimate destination of their life doesn't mean it isn't up to the person to choose.

The problem here is our concept of time- someone studying History in the 45th Century might be learning that Obama instituted a second holocaust...that doesn't mean that Obama is fixed to that fate- it up to him to choose...

Originally posted by Devil King
Are you saying god has no idea what is going to happen?

God knowing doesn't stop you from making the decisions and choices...again time is not linear.

If you CHOOSE to jump off a bridge tomorrow and you die- thats your life over. You might CHOOSE not to jump off the bridge however...God knows what choice you will make, but that doesn't stop you making the choice.

Again, think of a Time Machine.

If I go into the future say...70 years and read a biography of your life...my knowledge of what you are going to do doesn't take away your free will to make the decisions and even change it...

Yes it does. If you read a biography of my life, it is because I made the decisions that were in that book(/holoscreen). I would have lived and died already, and will have had the chance to make all of the decisions. The fact that they affected someone (to make the book) means that they have happened. Is it destiny? No. From your timeline, however, I have already made those decisions. Since I didn't make different decisions, from when you read the book, I have no choices. I will have been locked in. 'God' locks in EVERYONE to their decisions.

Originally posted by Jbill311
Yes it does. If you read a biography of my life, it is because I made the decisions that were in that book(/holoscreen). I would have lived and died already, and will have had the chance to make all of the decisions. The fact that they affected someone (to make the book) means that they have happened. Is it destiny? No. From your timeline, however, I have already made those decisions. Since I didn't make different decisions, from when you read the book, I have no choices. I will have been locked in. 'God' locks in EVERYONE to their decisions.

A biography has no effect on the subject. It simply records the past, every choice was still there to be made or not made. Standing in the future and looking back doesn't take away the options from anyone.

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
God knowing doesn't stop you from making the decisions and choices...again time is not linear.

If you CHOOSE to jump off a bridge tomorrow and you die- thats your life over. You might CHOOSE not to jump off the bridge however...God knows what choice you will make, but that doesn't stop you making the choice.

Again, think of a Time Machine.

If I go into the future say...70 years and read a biography of your life...my knowledge of what you are going to do doesn't take away your free will to make the decisions and even change it...

Let's say, a guy chooses to sin, even if he does still technically get to choose, he's still created with God knowing he'll sin...

Originally posted by Bat Dude
Let's say, a guy chooses to sin, even if he does still technically get to choose, he's still created with God knowing he'll sin...

So...would you rather never live to have the opportunity?