Is it God's will for you to go to hell?

Originally posted by socool8520
See, that's my problem. If God knows that we will all be sinners and even knows if we will do things that will definitely send us to Hell, then why create us at all? I would like to think that if there is a God, he/she/it, doesn't know your every choice. It would make things a little more acceptable for why there is so many bad things going on the world. It's not as easy to write off when it's said that God knew all these bad things happen but did nothing to stop them.

Well I'm assuming that if your homosexual, sooner or later, sodomy will come in to play, thus sinning and damnation are pretty much inevitable.

Existence should be a right in itself and not be dependent on where you end up.

Oh, and no not really...homosexual people are just as capable as heterosexual people at being abstinent.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Kinda my own thought.

And can we please stop with the "only a theory" bullsh*t. If you can't differentiate the colloquial usage of the word and the scientific one, and not use them interchangably when it suits your argument, then you really shouldn't be discussing science in the first place.

So we can't know anything for sure, and so your opinion is the correct one? beautiful. Subjectivity as an escape clause ftw.

Also, you quoted yourself and then responded to it. I can't decide if it's just tacky, an oversight, or a deliberate, though ineffective, debating tactic.

...

No one has shown why we aren't determined in our choices, btw. I'm still waiting for a coherent defense of Christianity's definition of free will.

Mmmmm, I think you aren't reading the posts carefully when jumping to such conclusions, not that those little attacks towards me affect my will to discuss. You however seem fixated on translating all «i saty and do in a bad way, a commoin action made mostly by politician and people who do not know much on a subject but still wants to continue babbling about it. If you wish to continue with me, I wouls ask that you expand your views and be less stubborn. It is good to defend your point, but it's not sane for the discussion to close your mind to all others.

And for everyone else, never have I took any condescending tones on you, and if you've ever felt that, then I am deeply sorry.

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Existence should be a right in itself and not be dependent on where you end up.

Oh, and no not really...homosexual people are just as capable as heterosexual people at being abstinent.

I agree with you,but only because I don't believe that someone knows where I will ebd up.

Yes, but how many abstinent people do you know who aren't children of course? if they can't change their orientation, they have to be abstinent. Does that sound fair to you?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
And if your straight at some point your liable to masturbate. Thus sinning and being damned to hell. I like to think that a) God has better things to care about than that and b) you'd have to seriously and willfully sin to end up in hell at all.

I would like to think so as well.

Well from what preachers , have told me, God doesn't have better things to do. Sodomy=Hell is what I was told. And honestly, this was just one example.

What about if he knew you were going to murder someone or become Adolf Hitler and bring suffering to the world, or any other terrible sin that is on "God's better things to do list" that will get you sent to Hell, then why would he allow or let you go through life knowing full and well that your destined for Hell?

Originally posted by socool8520
I would like to think so as well.

Well from what preachers , have told me, God doesn't have better things to do. Sodomy=Hell is what I was told. And honestly, this was just one example.

What about if he knew you were going to murder someone or become Adolf Hitler and bring suffering to the world, or any other terrible sin that is on "God's better things to do list" that will get you sent to Hell, then why would he allow or let you go through life knowing full and well that your destined for Hell?

A "perfect" world is less interesting. If an omnipotent creature decided to guide everything so that no one defied it's morals we would lack even a semblance of free will.

Originally posted by socool8520
I agree with you,but only because I don't believe that someone knows where I will ebd up.

Yes, but how many abstinent people do you know who aren't children of course? if they can't change their orientation, they have to be abstinent. Does that sound fair to you?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
A "perfect" world is less interesting. If an omnipotent creature decided to guide everything so that no one defied it's morals we would lack even a semblance of free will.

I think we have a different view on what is "interesting". Mass genocide, murder, famine, etc. is not very interesting to me.

I do agree with you that it would take away free will if God dictated everyone's life, but I also don't agree that there is free will when your destination and choices have already pre-determined.

That's one of the reasons I like to think that there is no one up there, so to speak, and that we do not have an definitive fate.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
No one has shown why we aren't determined in our choices, btw. I'm still waiting for a coherent defense of Christianity's definition of free will.

I agree. It's just too damn hard. Maybe God exists outside of our time where all our recognition of time is one eternal now with him, but maybe he has is own form of time in his existance? That would make it possible to be aware of all potential realities to be before him for each child. But that still doesn't make sense because we would have already made those choices and no made those choices. Ourselves at 2 years old and ourselves at 20 years old would all be one instant from his perspective.

I believe He created us as spirits, we existed with him in his time, learned from Him in His time, then we were restricted to this reality as spirits in these bodies to grow and mature further.

However, I'm still with you in that it makes little sense on how in the world free will is actually free will if time is one eternal now with God. I've asked this same question to smart theologists than I.

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Yes...

Wow. I'm really glad that there is a separation of Church and State.

..and then there's the possibility that religion is simply a tool of control and God doesn't exist.

Originally posted by dadudemon
..and then there's the possibility that religion is simply a tool of control and God doesn't exist.

I always thought of Religion as more of a way to explain things that no one knew how to explain without any proof, but I'm sure it has been manipulated by some as a means of control, power, or wealth. The Catholic Church comes to mind from the Medieval Times.

Originally posted by inimalist
omg the psychobabble is going to make me vomit oligodendrocytes out of my nose

Originally posted by Mandos
Beautiful.

god's qualities as beleived by many faiths make free will impossible. so yea, hed have wanted us to go to hell if he were real

We just have tp seperate the real God from the God some humans want us to think he is.

Originally posted by Mandos
We just have tp seperate the real God from the God some humans want us to think he is.

While we're at it we can find objective truth about morality.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
While we're at it we can find objective truth about morality.

What do you mean?

Originally posted by Mandos
What do you mean?

Neither is possible but people have convinced themselves they've done both.

There's no way to separate God from what people think God should be. Every religious text was written by people, usually some time after the time it describes. All other attributes ascribed to God are similarly man made.

Originally posted by Mandos
We just have tp seperate the real God from the God some humans want us to think he is.

Who the real God is (if there is one), is also just a belief or faith. There really is no way of knowing who the real God is for believers besides faith.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
While we're at it we can find objective truth about morality.

but that is totally possible.

There is strong evidence that God exists, or a force of nature, if you will. But again, it takes faith not to discredit them. For the ones who have none, the arguments are a pile of shit.