Does flight speed equal combat speed

High combat speed often means high travel speed but it reltionship doesn't work as well the other way.

Originally posted by Newjak
The Flash in KC did not exist in all places and all realities at once.

That is one of the biggest comic book myths of all time.

He could effectively be in more than one, however.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
High combat speed often means high travel speed but it reltionship doesn't work as well the other way.

He could effectively be in more than one, however.

Originally posted by Newjak
Is this in response to the Realities or places part?

Both. He was in the place that Spectre and the narrator were hiding and in the Watchtower simultaneously. He was also virtually everywhere at once in his city.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Both. He was in the place that Spectre and the narrator were hiding and in the Watchtower simultaneously. He was also virtually everywhere at once in his city.

Any lightspeeder should be able to appear everywhere in a city at once. Especially where the trouble is at.

I don't remember him being able to be near the Spectre.

I don't remember Flash actually being in the same reality as the narrator, just him pulling him out. I'd have to double check on that one though.

But I know for certain that the Spectre made the narrator invisible not to soon after that. Even to the Flash.

Edit:

Just reread it. I says that the Flash is too fast to be contained by one reality that entire stratas are open to him.

Personally what I got from this is more like if someone can see an Astral Form.

But I can see where you could get your statement from as well, imo.

Depends on the character. For some, flying does nothing superhuman for their sensorimotor functioning (eg, Human Torch). For others, these speeds can be equal, but not because of direct involvement. Superman, eg, still has top-tier combat speed even when he isn't deploying flight energy.

Still, other characters are defined by the use of some kind of energy (eg, magic, power cosmic) which can affect them in virtually any and every way imaginable. In this context, flight speed and combat speed, again, can be equal.

Originally posted by Ouallada
Firstly, I agree that SS is certainly overhyped by some people. Now, let me address some of your points.

People aren't referring to planetary bodies most of the time. They refer to asteroid belts and space debris when crediting SS with needing fast reaction speeds to avoid collision, especially as he travels at speeds constantly above C. As for whether or not SS is able to map out his journey, it is of course possible. Unfortunately, that doesn't equate to him being automatically able to micro-manage his flight without reflexes.

Point 1: There are extremely few clocked instances of high-speed travel from a confirmed position of rest.
Point 2: Covered above.
Point 3: Is a factor. However, moving limbs quickly does not automatically equal combat speed. Otherwise, sprinters would be excellent kickboxers due to their leg speed.
Point 4: SS isn't a h2h fighter. The only form of combat speed he needs is evasive speed. I have covered that in my earlier post.

But he doesn't constantly travel above C. Show me one scan where he is dodging asteroids inside a belt traveling above C. Do you know the average distance between asteroids? The average distance is enough for it to take light almost a second from one asteroid to another. Distances in space is vast, even between asteroids. A second is an eternity to Superman. Plus traveling in hyperspace (above C) doesn't require one to dodge anything not in hyperspace. This is because SS can only come in contact with objects in hyperspace with him.

And know that I mentioned that all points have to be covered to have great combat speed. So of course 3. alone doesn't make great combat speed, it needs 1,2, and 4 to go along with it. And SS needs skill in 4. in order to show how to deal with someone at close range throwing multiple punches at him.

Originally posted by h1a8
But he doesn't constantly travel above C. Show me one scan where he is dodging asteroids inside a belt traveling above C. Do you know the average distance between asteroids? The average distance is enough for it to take light almost a second from one asteroid to another. Distances in space is vast, even between asteroids. A second is an eternity to Superman. Plus traveling in hyperspace (above C) doesn't require one to dodge anything not in hyperspace. This is because SS can only come in contact with objects in hyperspace with him.

And know that I mentioned that [B]all points have to be covered to have great combat speed. So of course 3. alone doesn't make great combat speed, it needs 1,2, and 4 to go along with it. And SS needs skill in 4. in order to show how to deal with someone at close range throwing multiple punches at him. [/B]

Correction: he isn't constantly explicitly stated in words or numbers to travel above C. The same applies for 99.9% of feats. I would be worried if a reader needed such superfluous information to tell them something that they should have already inferred from the surfer's powerset, what he has consistently done, and what his role as a herald is.

There was a feat in which he mapped billions stars as he traveled past them. That shows that he has the mental capacity to handle large amounts of information, linked closely to reflex. When he has been shown to travel at such high multiples of C, the distances you speak of are nigh irrelevant. Have you ever seen him peppered by space debris?

As for hyperspace, that is simply a star trek notion that you are attempting to pass off as truth. Surfer, as well as many other characters, have traveled faster than C without going into hyperspace.

As for your points, I have already explained my position.
Point 1: Let's see scans of Superman or WW accelerating at above C from rest. A lack thereof would automatically discount them from having FTL combat speed. By your logic of course.
Point 2: Covered above
Point 3: You have already agreed that SS has this
Point 4: I have already mentioned that brawlers and h2h characters require different forms of combat speed to blasters. Just to add, having combat speed is not entirely consistent with having skill. Lacking the latter simply means you lack the application for your speed. To re-iterate, said speed is not the same as the speed at which one can move limbs.

Originally posted by Ouallada
Correction: he isn't constantly explicitly stated in words or numbers to travel above C. The same applies for 99.9% of feats. I would be worried if a reader needed such superfluous information to tell them something that they should have already inferred from the surfer's powerset, what he has consistently done, and what his role as a herald is.

There was a feat in which he mapped billions stars as he traveled past them. That shows that he has the mental capacity to handle large amounts of information, linked closely to reflex. When he has been shown to travel at such high multiples of C, the distances you speak of are nigh irrelevant. Have you ever seen him peppered by space debris?

As for hyperspace, that is simply a star trek notion that you are attempting to pass off as truth. Surfer, as well as many other characters, have traveled faster than C without going into hyperspace.

As for your points, I have already explained my position.
Point 1: Let's see scans of Superman or WW accelerating at above C from rest. A lack thereof would automatically discount them from having FTL combat speed. By your logic of course.
Point 2: Covered above
Point 3: You have already agreed that SS has this
Point 4: I have already mentioned that brawlers and h2h characters require different forms of combat speed to blasters. Just to add, having combat speed is not entirely consistent with having skill. Lacking the latter simply means you lack the application for your speed. To re-iterate, said speed is not the same as the speed at which one can move limbs.

Originally posted by h1a8
There is nothing to suggest that SS travels above C when dodging asteroids. All the scans make him appear to be traveling far below C when within a solar system, where asteroids exist. It is rather idiotic to even infer things that was never shown to happen. There's no basis.

Go ahead and show the scans. As far is inference goes, I prefer panels in which 6million light year journeys are infered, not wholy illustrated. Every single visual medium uses inference. Surfer has been stated to be above C plenty enough times to make an inference at least either way, if not for constant FTL.

Originally posted by h1a8
One great feat isn't enough remember? His average is far below that. Also, in Hyperspace there is nothing to hit and thus nothing that needs dodging.

Speed feats? Go look at his respect thread. Reflexes? He has dodged laser fire and neutralised that beam by spinning around it.

Ah, the hyperspace panic room. Feel free to prove that SS is in hyperspace each time he exceeds C. Even better. You have a FTL feat of his that you love bringing up -- the IG gauntlet snatch. Show me hyperspace in that instance. Please.

Originally posted by h1a8
Prove it! This is where you disagree with the truth. My position still holds; SS travels through hyperspace when traveling above C.

Right. Am waiting on the hyperspace part of the IG feat. I expect to be kept waiting.

Originally posted by h1a8
What does this have to do with what I said? Your losing it man, fast.
Who mentioned Superman or WW in 1.? I didn't even say how fast one must accelerate from rest. Great combat speed is relative and subjective. Spiderman has great combat speed to a human but not to Superman or Flash. The point is that one needs all the above in order to have great combat speed relative to whom they are fighting (or relative to the majority of beings in the universe). This is not debatable. And without skill one becomes a moron with great speed who cannot even hit a still target or cannot avoid geting armbarred by a enhanced human. Skill is indeed required.

Give up the insults, my dear Watson. You aren't any good at them.

I believe that I mentioned both Superman and WW, but never mind. It was a criteria you set, and:

Originally posted by h1a8
And know that I mentioned that all points have to be covered to have great combat speed

says that both of them do not have great combat speed if they lack (1). Evidence -- present it or forever hold your peace.

The rest of my previous post addresses the fact that SS either meets your criteria, or fails in areas that Superman/WW fail as well. As for skill and combat speed, the former is part of the latter, no doubt, but I shall simply state for brevity's sake that combat speed governs mainly over how fast one operates, not entirely congruent with how well one operates. IE while technique plays a part in achieving speed, an entity can have high combat speed (throwing a thousand punches a second) but with little skill (no target coverage, poor connection rate etc).

Originally posted by Newjak
The Flash in KC did not exist in all places and all realities at once.

That is one of the biggest comic book myths of all time.

anyone else remember in identity crisis, where green arrow says that deathstroke is faster than the flash [wally] "where it counts"? wally's clearly got the faster travelling speed, but deathstroke still beat him at combat speed. just saying.

Originally posted by Disappear
anyone else remember in identity crisis, where green arrow says that deathstroke is faster than the flash [wally] "where it counts"? wally's clearly got the faster travelling speed, but deathstroke still beat him at combat speed. just saying.

Wally's combat speed>Deathstroke's combat speed

😐

apparently not when he's against swords and c-4

Deathstroke has an unholy jobber aura versus any Flash. ❌

he also apparently uses 90% of his brain's potential, versus the rumored 10% most of us lowly humans use. so there's that.

anyway, it was just an example of how flight or traveling speed isn't always directly correlated to combat speed.

Originally posted by Disappear
apparently not when he's against swords and c-4

PIS.

Wally avoided the C4 but ran into Slade's sword. He should have easily avoided Slade's sword, he had plenty of time to do it.

Besides, Wally has fought battles that have lasted less than a second. Thrown hundreds of punches in less than a second, has near istantanious reaction time, etc. He has far greater combat speed than most other comic book characters.

Oh, and I was under the impression that GA meant Deathstroke could think faster than Flash (which still doesn't make much sense, Wally can think at light-speeds), not that he possessed superior combat speed.

Originally posted by Ouallada
Go ahead and show the scans. As far is inference goes, I prefer panels in which 6million light year journeys are infered, not wholy illustrated. Every single visual medium uses inference. Surfer has been stated to be above C plenty enough times to make an inference at least either way, if not for constant FTL.

Speed feats? Go look at his respect thread. Reflexes? He has dodged laser fire and neutralised that beam by spinning around it. [/B][/QUOTE] Yes, but one feat proves nothing remember? SS has some pretty low feats as well. The one you gave is outside his average by far. Even his other high feats (like some you just listed) isn't on par with that one. You should have stated your point differently.

Ah, the hyperspace panic room. Feel free to prove that SS is in hyperspace each time he exceeds C. Even better. You have a FTL feat of his that you love bringing up -- the IG gauntlet snatch. Show me hyperspace in that instance. Please.

I believe that I mentioned both Superman and WW, but never mind. It was a criteria you set, and:

says that both of them do not have great combat speed if they lack (1). Evidence -- present it or forever hold your peace.

As for skill and combat speed, the former is part of the latter, no doubt, but I shall simply state for brevity's sake that combat speed governs mainly over how fast one operates, not entirely congruent with how well one operates. IE while technique plays a part in achieving speed, an entity can have high combat speed (throwing a thousand punches a second) but with little skill (no target coverage, poor connection rate etc).

Originally posted by Disappear
anyone else remember in identity crisis

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Flash... and Elongated Man, Green Arrow, Black Canary, Hawkman, The Atom, Zatanna and fricken Kyle Rayner. That's not speed, that's PISpeed.

Besides, Wally almost has to be subdued by PIS in nearly any story, lol.

Originally posted by Juntai
However he's also done that very same thing to the Titans multiple times, a few b-rate teams in his solo series, on and on. As PIS as it is considered on the forum, it's also something natural to his character to be a team wrecker.

Besides, Wally almost has to be subdued by PIS in nearly any story, lol.

pretty much... you'd have to brand slade as a pis based character otherwise...