count dooku vs vaders apprentice (starkiller)

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
WTF?

So... Starkiller is stronger than Vader, as powerful as the Emperor, and is now at a stalemate for the most powerful Sith Lord in history. He, 'apparently', has UNLIMITED POWER!!! in the force. Gee, that makes sense!

I've never felt like dropping a large TV on GL's head. Until today. I hope they don't screw up that nice-looking game with that... ugh...

Originally posted by Gideon

As far as Nion is concerned, more details about the fight have been revealed. It is now my understanding that Nion doesn't really match the Emperor, but simply hurls "a lot of stuff" at him while Sidious is focused on PWNing Kota, which distracts him. And then the Emperor baits Nion into trying to strike him down. And then, the Emperor attempts to electrocute everyone, but Starkiller steps in the way and encroaches upon the Emperor -- gripping him as he's being electrocuted -- causing them both to be in agony.

He doesn't overpower him (though there is a mention how he makes some sort of sacrifice that puts a dent in the Death Star) but simply endures his Force lightning.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I never stated facts. I stated that Revan is PERFECT in my deluded mind because he's my favorite character, and that while he's shown without any failing qualities, he's still not as powerful as some star wars figures, whereas Starkiller contradicts a LOT of what happens in the movies. There was no humor here Escape. I think during your mental breakdown you lost the ability to differentiate between humor and seriousness.

LOL. That's sad. Seriously, that's ridiculous, DS. That's beyond Nebaris-class obsession. At least Bane accomplished his goal.

Heh... maybe Vader is 'hesitant' and therefore Starkiller does the Luke thing on him? I suppose that would make sense.

Sorry, but I still have faith in GL not to let that overpowered character be Vader's superior.

Originally posted by Gideon
LOL. That's sad. Seriously, that's ridiculous, DS. That's beyond Nebaris-class obsession. At least Bane accomplished his goal.

Revan was perfect as shown by Karpyshyn or whatever his name is, not because I think he was. I like Revan just as much as you hate the character so don't play this little game with me. Furthermore, you don't know what Revan did or did not accomplish because Drew chose to keep Revan's story incomplete.

Revan's "flaws" are only mentioned to be in the pre-game years.

No shit, cause thats the only time that has been documented in which it was really Revan's true self, not the players imprinted personality, which I can make an utter gullible puss or and arrogant asshat. And since there's no KOTOR 3 thats all we have to go on.

He was arrogant sure, but compare his to the arrogance of many other antagonists in Star Wars, his is rather justified by comparison. He WAS a brilliant tactician, he WAS extremely charismatic, he WAS the best duelist, the best Force-wielder... he WAS the best of his day.

So arrogance is justified because he's the shit? Does this change the fact that he was arrogant...no.

He was power-hungry, yes. But as we learn, it was all apparently for a noble defence of the galaxy.

According to one batshit insane old lady who hadn't seen her student in about a decade...even still whatever Revans intentions were by the time he made his holocron he was fully under the influence of the dark side, as PoD proves, Anakin's reasons were noble: he wanted to save Padmes life, Jacens motives were noble: he didn't want to kill Luke and wanted order for the galaxy, does this change the facts that they were all misguided sociopaths in the end? No, so I don't see why were making exceptions for Revan just cause you all have a ridicules hatred for the character.

That's pretty much it, he's the perfect being in every other way.

So wait...

-commiting near genocide on his own troops
-literally forcing all the Jedi whom worshipped him to become Sith
-Hacked off his best friends jaw
-Massacaring the Echani
-Torturing Jedi
-Causing a massive schism in the Jedi order to use them as future Sith
-Idioticlly not telling any of his other officers or stih about his grandiose plan to save the galaxy

Are all NOT flaws, you all are just posting shit with no proof to back up your claims, Revan DOES have flaws, you all continuing to label him a perfect Gary Stu with no actual proof of him being that at all is a tad bit silly. His own words flat out PROVE he was a f*cked up individual.

Oh and I forgot to mention: Kreia even speculates that the glorious bastard never even fell to the Dark Side. Apparently, he's so awesome, he's incorruptible. Oh my God... Revan is Batman.

Fallible Third Party Source.

Anyone who would suggest that Nion is more of a Gary Stu/fanboy magnet than Revan is retarded;

Um who made that claim?

Revan's presented to be flawless.

I fail to see how someone who fell to the darkside is "flawless" thats kids is what we call an oxymoron:

"As Revan plundered these tombs and relics, he fell deeper into the Dark Side." - Chronicles of the Old Republic
http://www.gamebanshee.com/starwarskotorii/chronicles.php

LOL WUT?

I will never understand those who verbally fellate "LOLZ HOW UBER" Revan is.

I'll never understand those who get upset over character X being stronger then character Y in a fictional universe, there's no logic behind it, especially when the creator of the fictional universe is ok with it.

There's no logic behind it. In fact, one could say that for a guy who had all those advantages -- peerless dueling expertise, Force strength, charisma, military knowledge, experience, and will power -- and still failed to achieve his goals is rather pathetic.

Um considering there has yet to be a KOTOR 3 I wouldn't speak on that.

Originally posted by Dr. Styles
I'll never understand those who get upset over character X being stronger then character Y in a fictional universe, there's no logic behind it, especially when the creator of the fictional universe is ok with it.

Neither do I. Though, to be fair, George Lucas clearly doesn't give a damn about the integrity and consistency of his saga as a whole; he's out for money. But, I digress. His word is law.

Um considering there has yet to be a KOTOR 3 I wouldn't speak on that.

The third installment is irrelevant. I'm referring to Revan as Dark Lord of the Sith. Despite his undeniable advantages, he failed to conquer the Republic and the galaxy. Which, in a way, makes him even more tragic and pathetic than those who lack such advantages and fail anyways.

Are all NOT flaws, you all are just posting shit with no proof to back up your claims, Revan DOES have flaws, you all continuing to label him a perfect Gary Stu with no actual proof of him being that at all is a tad bit silly. His own words flat out PROVE he was a f*cked up individual.

We're not talking about moral or ethical dilemmas. Antagonists and villains, (who by nature are morally and ethically flawed) can still be Gary Stus by virtue of overwhelming positive characteristics. Greatest tactition? Check. Greatest duelist? Check. Greatest affinity to the Force? Check. Charismatic leader? Check. Supremely skilled pilot? Check. Supremely skilled mechanic? Check. And, somehow, I'm willing to bet he's a great looking guy. Don't kid yourself, AC. Revan was intended to be a Gary Stu. Though, as I say, in a manner of speaking, he's an utter failure.

The third installment is irrelevant. I'm referring to Revan as Dark Lord of the Sith. Despite his undeniable advantages, he failed to conquer the Republic and the galaxy. Which, in a way, makes him even more tragic and pathetic than those who lack such advantages and fail anyways.

Really your going to go that route? Even though its pretty much stated that within a year of returning he had conquered the entire outerim, the Republic military was virtually powerless to stop him and only a split decision by his own apprentice, stopped him, and even then without Revan destroying everything he had done, Malak would have taken the Republic. I don't to see how thats a tragic and pathetic failure on his part, if anything that makes him look better as only he could stop his military machine and the Sith.

We're not talking about moral or ethical dilemmas. Antagonists and villains, (who by nature are morally and ethically flawed) can still be Gary Stus by virtue of overwhelming positive characteristics. Greatest tactition? Check. Greatest duelist? Check. Greatest affinity to the Force? Check. Charismatic leader? Check. Supremely skilled pilot? Check. Supremely skilled mechanic? Check. And, somehow, I'm willing to bet he's a great looking guy. Don't kid yourself, AC. Revan was intended to be a Gary Stu. Though, as I say, in a manner of speaking, he's an utter failure.

Wow you just described:

Nearly every leading force sensitive character in SW

I don't understand how you get your rocks off to Palpatine when he is everything Revan is but seemingly better (He creates giant wormsholes with the force 🙄, better at everything. But for some odd reason you HATE Revan and claim HIM the Gary Stu yet Palpatine was able to sit right next to YODA for years without him noticing he happened to be the most powerful Darksider ever, your blind hate makes no sense. And since were not talking about personality flaws, what area does Revan hold over Palpatine? None, maybe he's a better mechanic then him, and probably better looking (But DE Palpatine is apparently Brad Pitt so there goes that).

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Heh... maybe Vader is 'hesitant' and therefore Starkiller does the Luke thing on him? I suppose that would make sense.

Sorry, but I still have faith in GL not to let that overpowered character be Vader's superior.

I sure hope it is the latter as this will make vader and palpatine even more powerful(especially vader because many newbie fan n00bsters disrespect his status in the force and call him a slow moving clunky piece of shit).

I wouldn't mind if it was "both got their asses beaten really hard" in that climatic duel and styles mentioned something about circumstances that led jacob to "barely beat" vader, i sure hope this is the case.

And him even being able to tank palpatines lightning in the first place is utter bull, we have seen what happened when palpatine(or bane) unleash a very powerful blast of force lightning, their opponents get charred. Especially that jedi knight(Empires end) who had a large hole in his body after a "weakened palpatine" unleashed a lightning bolt burning through his flesh.
If jacob overpowers vader or sidious, i'm going to shit a brick.

Originally posted by Dr. Styles
Really your going to go that route? Even though its pretty much stated that within a year of returning he had conquered the entire outerim, the Republic military was virtually powerless to stop him and only a split decision by his own apprentice, stopped him, and even then without Revan destroying everything he had done, Malak would have taken the Republic. I don't to see how thats a tragic and pathetic failure on his part, if anything that makes him look better as only he could stop his military machine and the Sith.

I am going to go that route and it's clearly one you can't follow. As a Sith Lord, Revan's plan was to conquer the Galactic Republic by force. He did not succeed; your apologist attitude by making ceaseless excuses for him doesn't change it, AC. Did he come close? He sure did. Close =/= actuality. Likewise, you suggest that him "tearing down everything he ever had done" is supposed to impress me. As the grand architect of his empire, he'd obviously know what flaws to exploit better than any man, the same reason why Palpatine was able to practically destroy the Galactic Empire and then rebuild it from the ground up.

Wow you just described:

Nearly every leading force sensitive character in SW

Put down the bottle, AC. The two leading men in Star Wars, Luke and Anakin Skywalker, don't share half of those traits. Both Skywalkers were easily manipulated, naive, gullible, arrogant, and in many ways inexperienced. Despite the fact that father Skywalker's status as the Chosen One essentially made him a perfect being Force-wise, he was turned into a pawn by a man who, Force-wise, was inferior to him. Son Skywalker was mind****ed, got his hand chopped off, attacked and nearly killed his father, actually fell to the dark side (none of this "he used the dark side but didn't fall" bullshit) and continues to be outwitted even in his prime.

That is flawed.

I don't understand how you get your rocks off to Palpatine when he is everything Revan is but seemingly better (He creates giant wormsholes with the force 🙄, better at everything. But for some odd reason you HATE Revan and claim HIM the Gary Stu yet Palpatine was able to sit right next to YODA for years without him noticing he happened to be the most powerful Darksider ever, your blind hate makes no sense. And since were not talking about personality flaws, what area does Revan hold over Palpatine? None, maybe he's a better mechanic then him, and probably better looking (But DE Palpatine is apparently Brad Pitt so there goes that).

Better at everything? Revan's certainly the greater mechanic, pilot, and tactition. Easily on par with the Emperor in personal charisma. Palpatine's narcissistic compulsion to take hold of those who could destroy him -- the Skywalkers -- and break them and dominate them is what led to his eventual defeat and death. That is flawed.

You have yet to prove Revan's flaws, mistakes, or momentary stupidity.

Edited because the last part was too hostile.

Originally posted by Dr. Styles
No shit, cause thats the only time that has been documented in which it was really Revan's true self, not the players imprinted personality, which I can make an utter gullible puss or and arrogant asshat. And since there's no KOTOR 3 thats all we have to go on.

Originally posted by Dr. Styles
So arrogance is justified because he's the shit? Does this change the fact that he was arrogant...no.

Originally posted by Dr. Styles
According to one batshit insane old lady who hadn't seen her student in about a decade...even still whatever Revans intentions were by the time he made his holocron he was fully under the influence of the dark side, as PoD proves, Anakin's reasons were noble: he wanted to save Padmes life, Jacens motives were noble: he didn't want to kill Luke and wanted order for the galaxy, does this change the facts that they were all misguided sociopaths in the end? No, so I don't see why were making exceptions for Revan just cause you all have a ridicules hatred for the character.

Originally posted by Dr. Styles
So wait...

-commiting near genocide on his own troops
-literally forcing all the Jedi whom worshipped him to become Sith
-Hacked off his best friends jaw
-Massacaring the Echani
-Torturing Jedi
-Causing a massive schism in the Jedi order to use them as future Sith
-Idioticlly not telling any of his other officers or stih about his grandiose plan to save the galaxy

Are all NOT flaws, you all are just posting shit with no proof to back up your claims, Revan DOES have flaws, you all continuing to label him a perfect Gary Stu with no actual proof of him being that at all is a tad bit silly. His own words flat out PROVE he was a f*cked up individual.

But anywho, maybe it was just the voice in my head, but you sound indignant. Gideon and I weren't b*tching about Revan's deeds, we're b*tching about his personality and his attributes. He's brilliant, charismatic, insightful... he's a wonderful mechanic, speaks like every language, a talented pilot... and he was the most powerful Force-user of his generation.

The man had everything going for him, there was no flaw in his personality or his skills. He was the perfect person for every situation. His biggest flaw was getting stabbed in the back and having his mind wiped. And that only resulted in his power GROWING.

By comparison, Nion seems more human, more fragile... more realistic, sans the controversy over his powers.

I am going to go that route and it's clearly one you can't follow. As a Sith Lord, Revan's plan was to conquer the Galactic Republic by force. He did not succeed; your apologist attitude by making ceaseless excuses for him doesn't change it, AC. Did he come close? He sure did. Close =/= actuality.

And...so he's a tragic and pathetic failure because his student turned on him on a whim? Even though withing a year he'd nearly done something that took the Banites 1000 years of plotting and waiting to do. I'm sorry but thats a tad bit stupid.

Revan was betrayed and it was his own fault (thinking Malak wouldn't turn on him the first chance he got) that alone suggests a VERY heavy ego on Revan's part that he'd give Malak that much power and not be worried about him even AFTER he hacked the dudes jaw off. That is a character flaw.

Likewise, you suggest that him "tearing down everything he ever had done" is supposed to impress me. As the grand architect of his empire, he'd obviously know what flaws to exploit better than any man, the same reason why Palpatine was able to practically destroy the Galactic Empire and then rebuild it from the ground up.

Um wut? You are aware that Revan had no memories of his past life during KOTOR when he was flat out the ONLY person who could stop Malak

Put down the bottle, AC. The two leading men in Star Wars, Luke and Anakin Skywalker, don't share half of those traits. Both Skywalkers were easily manipulated, naive, gullible, arrogant, and in many ways inexperienced. Despite the fact that father Skywalker's status as the Chosen One essentially made him a perfect being Force-wise, he was turned into a pawn by a man who, Force-wise, was inferior to him. Son Skywalker was mind****ed, got his hand chopped off, attacked and nearly killed his father, actually fell to the dark side (none of this "he used the dark side but didn't fall" bullshit) and continues to be outwitted even in his prime.

That is flawed.

So wait Revan has to be a gullible moron for you to accept him? You must have enjoyed the latest LOTF novels which dumbs down Luke to utter a buffoon, having him still plagued by fears of the dark side at 60 when he settled those issues at 23 and having him being outwitted by someone he smashed time and time again when he was 25 at 60 is just dumb. And LOL at you listing falling to the dark side as one of Skywalkers flaws when Revan you know: did the same thing, but his still a perfect little gary stu omnipotent in your little world.

Better at everything? Revan's certainly the greater mechanic, pilot, and tactician. Easily on par with the Emperor in personal charisma. Palpatine's narcissistic compulsion to take hold of those who could destroy him -- the Skywalkers -- and break them and dominate them is what led to his eventual defeat and death. That is flawed.

We have NOTHING suggesting Revan was a godly pilot, its never stated and Carth pilots the Ebon Hawk not Revan. And so he could probably plan a military campaign better then Sidious and he could fix R2D2 if he needed to...wow those are the only two areas he beats Palpy in where as Palpatine is:

Uberly powerful in the force? Check.
Uber saber duelist? Check.
Uber strategist? Check.
Ass loads of charisma and charm? Check.
Master Manipulator? Makes the Chosen One his ***** Check.
Strongest Sith ever? Check.
Potential Immortal? Check.
Brings Sexy back? Check.

and Palpatine is not a gary stu how now?

Oh thats right its cause you like him thats why, cause he's your fav...

You have yet to prove Revan's flaws, mistakes, or momentary stupidity.

And Revan thinks he can single handily save himself from the darkside, the galaxy and pretty much everything from the True Sith, he much like Jacen started their roads with very good intentions yet let the Dark Side corrupt them to the point where they went from well intentioned extremist to megalomaniac sociopaths, which in the end is what DARTH Revan is and is what Caedus is, Revans need to systematically wipe out and break every prominent warrior class (Echani, Mandalorians, Jedi, Sith) to mold and unify the galaxy into a strong force under one and only one command (his) to go off and fight yet ANTHER war even though he would have just gotten done with two previous bloody campaign's WREAKS of fascist megalomania. If your going to seriously try and sit here and claim that combined with his fall to the Dark Side and his nonchalant arrogant ways toward Malak are NOT character flaws then um well: u dumb.

Unless of course your going to suggest that Revan is something of a ubermensch which Kreia's self delusions seem to want to believe

And keep out your failed little attempts at insults/humor.

By comparison, Nion seems more human, more fragile... more realistic, sans the controversy over his powers.

Yeah that fragile little guy who mops the floor with Vaders ***** ass then proceeds to dump on Palpatine (The strongest Sith EVER) matches him at his own game Force Lightning, and put crater in the Death Star, he nearly does by himself what Luke Skywalker AND Vader, Yoda, and Obi Wan couldn't do. He makes the big bad Dark Lords of the Sith look like harmless girl scouts, makes Yoda the 800 year old most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness has ever known look like a muppet playing with a glow stick at the tender age of what... 21. And REVAN is a bigger Gary Stu then this guy? LOL.

Tangible's point was you and them are talking about two different things. They're talking about his personality while you're talking about his feats... two different things.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
Tangible's point was you and them are talking about two different things. They're talking about his personality while you're talking about his feats... two different things.

So wait. Escape, who absolutely hates Revan, is arguing that he's a perfect character without flaws, while Styles, who LOVES Revan, is arguing that Revan had PLENTY of flaws.

Read my post toward Gideon, he has no point.

Gideon and I have a problem with how wonderful Revan's made out to be. He's got no emotional or personality flaws, we never see (or hear of) him doubt his position. He's got a myriad of skills and abilities and is never shown to fail, to be wrong. Canonically, he's a wonderful, perfect Jedi and human being. While that's miraculous for a human, it's poor character development.

KotOR II especially, made Revan out to be a scheming genius who could manipulate people into following his cause which we find out was to save the galaxy. Kreia suggest to us that the man didn't even "fall," he uses the Dark Side (all in the most noble of goals remember) to save civilization. He couldn't even be corrupted properly.

Nion, on the other hand, doubted his purpose, and was brought up by Vader to be evil. His seems to be a tragic story, while Revan's ends (so far) in redemption and sacrifice for the greater good.

In terms of story telling and character development, Nion is a man whom you can pity, hate, like etc., and is a character you can work with. Revan is portrayed as a definitive model of Good, who turned from the Dark Side and saved the Republic. It's so cliche, so trite.

Oh please someone call the whaaambulance, your mad cause Revan has self confidence where as Starkiller is a self doubting puss? And Revan as a knight is not even portrayed as the "model jedi" the council hates him as the KOTOR comics have shown, he losses a group of his followers on Dxun and leaves them there

His dialog:

Revan: I was right! Now you'll see, the truth will be written in blood!

Lucien Draay: Which truths are you talking about?

Revan: Nevermind, I have learners to save

the comics emphasis not mine, he calles his own followers, learners. If anything it can be inferred that Revan has a holier than thou attitude, and might go as far to say he has a bit of a god complex:

EVERYONE else is wrong, he is right. Only HE can save the galaxy, Only HE can see the threat of the True Sith and only HE has what it takes to empower the galaxy enough to withstand this threat, not to mention all his life he'd been hailed as a prodigy, had a cult of followers within the Jedi Order had Jedi Knights calling him Master when he was a very young Knight himself, had Kreia hyping him up for most of his time as a Padawan and was apparently so special that the he needed multiple Masters to match his learning speed, all this would make ANYONE a bit of a arrogant d-bag, now take into account that the Dark Side amplifies emotions ten fold what do we end up with:

Darth Revan the dark Messiah like figure who happens to be a sociopath megalomaniac. And thats cool, that plus his redemption is what make him such an attractive character, to me at least.

Since when is lacking self doubt put you on the Gary Stu list?

Originally posted by Dr. Styles
Oh please someone call the whaaambulance, your mad cause Revan has self confidence where as Starkiller is a self doubting puss? And Revan as a knight is not even portrayed as the "model jedi" the council hates him as the KOTOR comics have shown, he losses a group of his followers on Dxun and leaves them there

His dialog:

Revan: I was right! Now you'll see, the truth will be written in blood!

Lucien Draay: Which truths are you talking about?

Revan: Nevermind, I have learners to save

the comics emphasis not mine, he calles his own followers, learners. If anything it can be inferred that Revan has a holier than thou attitude, and might go as far to say he has a bit of a god complex:

EVERYONE else is wrong, he is right. Only HE can save the galaxy, Only HE can see the threat of the True Sith and only HE has what it takes to empower the galaxy enough to withstand this threat, not to mention all his life he'd been hailed as a prodigy, had a cult of followers within the Jedi Order had Jedi Knights calling him Master when he was a very young Knight himself, had Kreia hyping him up for most of his time as a Padawan and was apparently so special that the he needed multiple Masters to match his learning speed, all this would make ANYONE a bit of a arrogant d-bag, now take into account that the Dark Side amplifies emotions ten fold what do we end up with:

Darth Revan the dark Messiah like figure who happens to be a sociopath megalomaniac. And thats cool, that plus his redemption is what make him such an attractive character, to me at least.

Since when is lacking self doubt put you on the Gary Stu list?

And remember, a Gary Stu isn't a flawless character. Wikiepedia's article on it:

"a pejorative term used to describe a fictional character who plays a major role in the plot on such a scale that suspension of disbelief fails due to the character's traits, skills and abilities being tenuously or inadequately justified. Such a character is particularly characterized by overly idealized and cliched mannerisms, lacking noteworthy flaws, and primarily functioning as wish-fulfillment fantasies for their authors. Perhaps the single underlying feature of all characters described as "Mary Sues" is that they are too ostentatious for the audience's taste, or that the author seems to favor the character too highly. The author may seem to push how exceptional and wonderful the "Mary Sue" character is on his or her audience, sometimes leading the audience to dislike or even resent the character fairly quickly; such a character could be described as an "author's pet".

Note the last sentence.

I'll try some brevity here: Revan's flaws and rebellious nature served the greater good and his redemption transformed him into the perfect Jedi. All of this, Dark and Light, was aided by top-notch, nigh-unrivaled skills.

He's the perfect hero: He fell for a noble cause, and rose again for a noble cause. He's a leader, a speaker, a tactician, a powerful Jedi, a pilot, a repairman, a polyglot. He's seen and done it all.

His story is similar to the Skywalker's, though Luke was mediocre and naive to begin with, and he grew into the hero persona. Anakin meanwhile was powerful and promising, yet fearful and angry--the tragic hero. But Revan was badass before and during his fall, and he was a badass Good guy during his redemption. He was cool, popular and talented from the get-go, and in retrospect, it's quite boring and hackneyed.

That wasn't my point, I KNOW he's a Gary Stu (in terms of his power and ability) and I have no problem with that, since your comparing him to the Skywalkers whom don't even share Revans time frame its really not a valid comparison they come from two very different era's.

HOWEVER you two are trying to assert that Revan had no personality flaws to speak of, was the perfect Jedi Knight yada yada yada, and I'm telling you: Your dead wrong, as I have proved.
You all have changed the overall topic because you've been proved wrong. it started as this:

"That's pretty much it, he's the perfect being in every other way."

"Revan's presented to be flawless."

"The man had everything going for him, there was no flaw in his personality or his skills"

Thats what I'm proving wrong, cause you see not to be rude but I don't really give a shit about how you feel about Revan's power/skills, I like that: he's a friggen awesome prodigy prick of a Jedi then he's a f*cking awesome evil genius completely nuts conqueror Sith Lord. I love it. You hate it. Who cares.

Not to mention it was Chris Avellon the writer of KOTOR 2 who made Revan into what you guys seem to hate, Drew Kapsywhatever his creator made him a legit evil and bad person in KOTOR 1 and PoD.