The joker vs hannibal lecter

Originally posted by Bardock42
He may or may not be. But I believe that was not the question. Lecter hasn't really shown the elaborate planning and plotting that Joker has.

Yes he has. Maybe not on such a grand scale as the Joker but Lecter never had the ambition to prove a point to the world. This shouldn't suggest that he couldn't. The Joker spread fear through out an entire city because that's what he wanted to accomplish. Lecter spread fear through out the nation by sheer happenstance. Lecter has proven that he can manipulate just about any person and situation. Unlike the Joker, Lecters' plans always reach fruition and unfold exactly how he plans. The Joker doesn't understand people nearly as well as Lecter.

frusty Darn, I should have done a search before making my thread. Though I suppose I made it different enough, maybe... 😬

Originally posted by jinXed by JaNx
Yes he has. Maybe not on such a grand scale as the Joker but Lecter never had the ambition to prove a point to the world. This shouldn't suggest that he couldn't. The Joker spread fear through out an entire city because that's what he wanted to accomplish. Lecter spread fear through out the nation by sheer happenstance. Lecter has proven that he can manipulate just about any person and situation. Unlike the Joker, Lecters' plans always reach fruition and unfold exactly how he plans. The Joker doesn't understand people nearly as well as Lecter.

He can't for the simple fact he has not proven to be able to.

Joker manipulated an entire city to his will, and in the end he in a way "won," he proved that the best of people could become just like him, and he forced Batman to kill someone.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
The absence of proof is not proof of absence argment? Fail.

He can't for the simple fact he has not proven to be able to.

Joker manipulated an entire city to his will, and in the end he in a way "won," he proved that the best of people could become just like him, and he forced Batman to kill someone.

absence of proof? I'm not stating anything that isn't reinforced by the material in the movies. Lecter never had the type of ambition that the Joker had so, we cannot say what he could and couldn't accomplish if he were compelled to convey a pointless and redundant message. What we do know about Lecter, however, is that his goals always involve elaborate schemes that are elaborately planned. The same can be said about the Joker but i really have a problem in believing this. In TDK he relied to much on luck.

The difference between the Joker and Lecter is that Lecters goals are always self centered. There is no chaos involved in his goals. They are intricately plotted. The Jokers' goals involved using chaos to spread the message of chaos. As we know, Chaos is unpredictable. This is why the Joker failed.

I'm still yet to be convinced that the Joker accomplished anything other than murder and destruction. He didn't force Batman to kill anyone. He forced Batman to choose who he was going to pursue. Batman can't be in two places at once. Had the Joker not given Batman the wrong address it is very possible that the police would have made it to Dent in time. I really don't know how Batman was forced to kill. He didn't kill anyone.

I don't even see how the Joker proved that anyman can become like him. Isn't it common knowledge that every man has his breaking point? I didn't see anyone in the movie arguing otherwise. Dent snapped, yeah, but he didn't become like the Joker in the least bit. He wasn't going around murdering innocent people and spread senseless chaos. He was merely seeking revenge. The Joker may have helped to cause that by burning his face off and killing his fiance but it could have been anyman who pushed Dent to that breaking point. If all the joker proved is that everyman has their breaking point, well, that's pretty lame. I could have told everyone that 😉 The Joker failed, partner. The only thing he ever accomplished was murder and mayhem. Any nut with a gun can do that. Lecter, on the other hand changed lives on a deep profound level and orchestrated grand event without anyone even knowing he was involved.

It's true just like alfred said. "Some men just want to watch the world burn." Joker wasn't trying to prove anything he just really enjoyed what he did.

I think the reference TGE was making in terms of Bats killing was when he tackled Harv to the dirt and he died.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
The joker about whom i refer is the antagonist from the move :The Dark Knight versus hannibal lecter.

both are clever and have taken many lives in thier respective fields. given thier twisted nature i have 3 levels i want to measure from each of them.

1) who is more morally depraved?

2) who is more clever/ ingenious?

3) who wins in a fight ( weapons tactics and all)?

Joker
Lector in a landslide
Joker

Originally posted by jinXed by JaNx
absence of proof? I'm not stating anything that isn't reinforced by the material in the movies. Lecter never had the type of ambition that the Joker had so, we cannot say what he could and couldn't accomplish if he were compelled to convey a pointless and redundant message. What we do know about Lecter, however, is that his goals always involve elaborate schemes that are elaborately planned. The same can be said about the Joker but i really have a problem in believing this. In TDK he relied to much on luck.

The difference between the Joker and Lecter is that Lecters goals are always self centered. There is no chaos involved in his goals. They are intricately plotted. The Jokers' goals involved using chaos to spread the message of chaos. As we know, Chaos is unpredictable. This is why the Joker failed.

I'm still yet to be convinced that the Joker accomplished anything other than murder and destruction. He didn't force Batman to kill anyone. He forced Batman to choose who he was going to pursue. Batman can't be in two places at once. Had the Joker not given Batman the wrong address it is very possible that the police would have made it to Dent in time. I really don't know how Batman was forced to kill. He didn't kill anyone.

I don't even see how the Joker proved that anyman can become like him. Isn't it common knowledge that every man has his breaking point? I didn't see anyone in the movie arguing otherwise. Dent snapped, yeah, but he didn't become like the Joker in the least bit. He wasn't going around murdering innocent people and spread senseless chaos. He was merely seeking revenge. The Joker may have helped to cause that by burning his face off and killing his fiance but it could have been anyman who pushed Dent to that breaking point. If all the joker proved is that everyman has their breaking point, well, that's pretty lame. I could have told everyone that 😉 The Joker failed, partner. The only thing he ever accomplished was murder and mayhem. Any nut with a gun can do that. Lecter, on the other hand changed lives on a deep profound level and orchestrated grand event without anyone even knowing he was involved.

Joker's a psycho and Lecter's a ****** up psycho. Not every day a villain wears someone's skin to make an escape out of a prison.

In a fight, Joker wins. You don't know what he'll pull out of his sleeves when you fight him.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
I'm not reading that sir.

I don't blame you. It's probably for the best anyway. I think i was buzzin hard 😂

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh cant beat a good buzz post. ✅

got the ban stick for doing "high posts"

Damnnnnnnn.

No love/respect for a person's highness anymore. 😛

Not even... from the governments uhuh

I know this one's over, but I'm bored. Anyway, eating people isn't unprecedented. Neither in the animal kingdom (eating babies) nor in humanity. People from all over the word, cultures completely separate from one another have eaten people. So that doesn't make him all that depraved (by our standards, yeah, but moral relativism blah blah). Also, Hannibal wants nice, expensive things. He wants to be a respected member of the community. Joker "wants to see the world burn". He doesn't care about money, except as a means to buy more materials to cause more destruction. He only cares about entertaining himself, and corrupting people.
1. Joker, for above reasons.
2. Joker. Hannibal's been stuck in "prison" (although his escape was pretty badass, even though he did it against 1980s security). Joker only goes to prison when he wants to (ok, that's comic Joker. Batman did get him at the end of the movie without him wanting to. Let's just all assume he escaped like a week after). Plus, consider who put each in prison. Lecter was outsmarted by, out-fought by (at least to a draw) and caught by an FBI agent. It took freakin' Batman to catch the Joker. Bat. Man. Lecter's good at planning on a small scale, committing murders and what not. Joker shut down an entire city.
3. Joker wins in a fight. Lecter's best-trained victim was a cop. Joker could have killed Batman at least twice in that movie. Once again. Bat.Man.