Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
You can say that for pretty much anything. 😕
Indeed 😛
Originally posted by Robtard
McClane would shoot his ass dead in either scenario and he wouldn't hesitate. The Joker would go into a monologue, John would shoot.
And the hostages go boom. If you have seen TDK, you'd know that Joker wouldnt hesitate to strap himself all over with explosives like he did when he went to the crime lords.
Originally posted by Obsidian FuryAnd the hostages go boom. If you have seen TDK, you'd know that Joker wouldnt hesitate to strap himself all over with explosives like he did when he went to the crime lords.
John would just shoot, he wouldn't bother talking with the Joke, while the Joker being the Joker loves to chat anf toy with his prey.
If anything, John would point his gun, the Joker would open his coat displaying his grenade collection and begin his usual chats and games, but instead of an opponent who is hesitant to kill, John just shoots and then says some cheesy one-liner.
Originally posted by Robtard
John would just shoot, he wouldn't bother talking with the Joke, while the Joker being the Joker loves to chat anf toy with his prey.If anything, John would point his gun, the Joker would open his coat displaying his grenade collection and begin his usual chats and games, but instead of an opponent who is hesitant to kill, John just shoots and then says some cheesy one-liner.
So you havent seen TDK.
erm... no. The string isn't a deadman's switch like in Hancock. Joker has to actively pull the string in order for the grenades to explode, they don't explode if he dies. Hence the point of it being on a string.
If John were to shoot the Joker in either the face or even the chest, the Joker would be dead so fast that he wouldn't have time to pull the string.
And you're speculating about weither or not he wouldn't hesitate to pull the string. The Joker knew that the mob bosses wouldn't shoot him if they saw the string, because of movie PIS. John however knows better... and you'd have to prove that the Joker really would be that willing to give up his life.
The only reason that the Hostage negotiation thing ever works in real lfie is because the criminal hols the Hostage in front of him, like a human shield. The police hesitate to shoot because they might risk hitting the hostage, not because they're afraid the Criminal will shoot first, which he won't.
Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
erm... no. The string isn't a deadman's switch like in Hancock. Joker has to actively pull the string in order for the grenades to explode, they don't explode if he dies. Hence the point of it being on a string.If John were to shoot the Joker in either the face or even the chest, the Joker would be dead so fast that he wouldn't have time to pull the string.
And you're speculating about weither or not he wouldn't hesitate to pull the string. The Joker knew that the mob bosses wouldn't shoot him if they saw the string, because of movie PIS. John however knows better... and you'd have to prove that the Joker really would be that willing to give up his life.
The only reason that the Hostage negotiation thing ever works in real lfie is because the criminal hols the Hostage in front of him, like a human shield. The police hesitate to shoot because they might risk hitting the hostage, not because they're afraid the Criminal will shoot first, which he won't.
I cant remember once in the movie where Joker cared about surviving. He'd be ready to give his life if he knew it would end anyway. If he werent willing to give up his life, half of the things he did, he wouldnt have done.
Originally posted by Obsidian Fury
I've watched them. I also know that John wouldnt risk the life of all those hostages for something that [b]could work. He aint that type of risktaker. [/B]
So what's his other options? Leave the Joker alone and hope he doesn't kill any of them? Try and negotiate with an insane clown?
John makes his way in, while killing and avoiding the thugs, as he did with the terrorist/mercs, spots the Joker and either outright shoots him or faces him for a bit and then shoots him, I'd expect the former.
Another thing of note, those terrorist/mercs John killed were all highly trained men, Joker's street thugs wouldn't be that hard by comparision.
Originally posted by Obsidian Fury
I cant remember once in the movie where Joker cared about surviving. He'd be ready to give his life if he knew it would end anyway. If he werent willing to give up his life, half of the things he did, he wouldnt have done.
Not once? How about the scene with the mob boses, he knew those men would not throw their lives away. If he didn't care, he would have gone in without the grenades as a deterrent.
Originally posted by Placidity
Why wouldn't he, he's crazy. He was begging for a bullet from Dent, obviously it was part of his plan, but the chances of him getting killed would've been high.
I cant remember once in the movie where Joker cared about surviving. He'd be ready to give his life if he knew it would end anyway. If he werent willing to give up his life, half of the things he did, he wouldn't have done.
Because he was plaing it off. Almost everything in the movie had gone exactly as he ahd planend. Everyone acted exactly the way he planned for them to do. If Joker had been dealing with some unknown person whom he hadn't gotten a chance to study or play mind games with, it's a high possibility that he wouldn't act the way he did.
Originally posted by Robtard
Not once? How about the scene with the mob boses, he knew those men would not throw their lives away. If he didn't care, he would have gone in without the grenades as a deterrent.
Exactly. If he "didn't care about his life" he wouldn't have done that, or used Rachel as a distraction.
Originally posted by Robtard
So what's his other options? Leave the Joker alone and hope he doesn't kill any of them? Try and negotiate with an insane clown?John makes his way in, while killing and avoiding the thugs, as he did with the terrorist/mercs, spots the Joker and either outright shoots him or faces him for a bit and then shoots him, I'd expect the former.
Another thing of note, those terrorist/mercs John killed were all highly trained men, Joker's street thugs wouldn't be that hard by comparision.
1. He doesnt have much options. That's the thing with the Joker and always has been. He doesnt play fair.
2. And risk to set of the explosives? John may be trigger-happy, but he care about human lives. Joker has him cornered in both scenarios. The chance that John gets out alive is very low. And for the record, the chance that Joker gets out alive is rather low as well. I believe that in 9/10 scenarios, John dies. In 5-6/10 scenarios, Joker dies.
3. A bullet by a trained soldier is as deadly as a bullet by a clown. You have to agree that those highly trained men John faced didnt exactly have much accuracy. John had loads of luck. And for being highly trained, they werent very bright. I'm not saying that Joker's thugs would be any better, because they certainly wouldnt, but a lot of John's survival troughout the movies was luck and/or mercy/stupidity from his advesarys.
Originally posted by Obsidian Fury2. And risk to set of the explosives? John may be trigger-happy, but he care about human lives. Joker has him cornered in both scenarios. The chance that John gets out alive is very low. And for the record, the chance that Joker gets out alive is rather low as well. I believe that in 9/10 scenarios, John dies. In 5-6/10 scenarios, Joker dies.
And you're assuming that the Joker will be able to physically pull a string before a bullet can leave the chamber of a gun and go through his skull based on... what? Does the Joker have superhuman reflexes and speed now?
Bullets move faster then the Jokers hand. If John pulls the trigger of his gun Joker will be dead before he can pull the trigger. There is nothing that can refute this point. There is no possible way that the Joker can pull the trigger before John's bullets reach him unless the Joker pulls the string first, which would make holding hostages pointless in the first place.
Originally posted by Robtard
Not once? How about the scene with the mob boses, he knew those men would not throw their lives away. If he didn't care, he would have gone in without the grenades as a deterrent.
He, like you said, had a plan. He brought the explosives because it served his plan to walk out of there alive, but he wouldnt have gone there in the first place if he cared about living.
It's true that he predicted how everyone would act, but predicting isnt a 100% certainty. If he werent prepared to die, he wouldnt have handed Dent the gun. He wouldnt have pushed every button Batman had. He wouldnt have selected such a cornered location for his final move. He wouldnt have made that phonecall, since he was inside reach of the blastzone.
It's true that he avoided dying, but he did show that he was ready to die. Just because he was manipulative, doesnt mean he was absoultely certain things would go his way.
Originally posted by Obsidian FuryIt's true that he predicted how everyone would act, but predicting isnt a 100% certainty.
Maybe if you're insane it is.
It's true that he avoided dying, but he did show that he was ready to die. Just because he was manipulative, doesnt mean he was absoultely certain things would go his way.
So wait...
Yeah he did show that he took steps to not die. But... that doesn't mean he didn't want to die?