Originally posted by Gideon
Yes, Nai, catch up. That's why I called you a hypocrite.
Give me a call when you've understood the concept of "flaming", Gideon.
Once again, very telling that you didn't try to argue the point. Meanwhile, as for Yoda vs. Sidious, Yoda disarmed him, owned him with his lightning, and let him go for no reason. That's the problem I had. You keep spitting out more irrelevant misdirections than ever. Desperation is an ugly thing.
The "problem" you had is irrelevant as was your quote. I was merely pointing out that you can't criticize a source and then use it again because you're just happy. And thanks for dodging the point I made by accusing me of dodging the point.
LOL, Nai, no one said that Dooku couldn't own Anakin with the Force or that he went into the fight with the desire to kill him. What we said was that he couldn't (and didn't) beat Anakin with a lightsaber.
Okay. I'll explain it for the three-year-olds around here: Dooku didn't went into the fight with the desire or intention to beat Anakin, because he wanted to convert him to the Dark Side. Got that so far? I hope so. Now, given that he didn't want to defeat or kill Anakin, how can you conclude from his performance there and then that he wasn't able to do it?
He never tried to do it. That's the entire point here. He went into the fight with the command to get capture by Skywalker. He, even at the climax of their confrontation, wants to convert Anakin instead of defeating him (according to Lucas own words). That directly contradicts the novels interpretation. He can't be trying to convert him while wanting to kill him at the same time. So where does he try to overcome Anakin, Gideon? The right answer is: nowhere
Hence your pitty conclusions are simply false. And on a side-note: now you can go back to the beginning of that "debate" here. What did I say? I said that Dooku was still too much for them in RotS. And what? You admit that Dooku is quite superior in force mastery and I talk about Dooku going "all out" on his opponents. Now Gideon. Tell me what would happen if we repeat that match with the same setup, but this time with Dooku wanting to kill both Jedi at any cost instead of attempting to convert Anakin? Would Obi-Wan and Anakin win?
Careful, man. Nai's on his House/Mengele spree; he does this every six months after he leaves with his tail between his legs.
At least, I have a tail between my legs that I can leave with, Grace. And please don't forget to mention Goebbels in your next "Nai's a Nazi" flame.
Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
There is no point in continuing to try to convert someone when you know that if you don't kill them first, they will kill you.
Oh wait, Susan. Now you're telling me that it doesn't make sense trying to convert somebody when you know that the guy can kill you. Okay. So, reversing that statement, this means that Dooku didn't think that Anakin could be a threat for him before telling him to use his anger and hatred? Thanks for confirming my line of thought.
Ok, and their proficiency with said forms was mediocre at best during AoTC. There's no reason to suspect that they wouldn't adapt other forms, when Dooku himself mastered multiple forms.
Allright, Sally. So after 10 years of training their respective forms, their skill in them is "mediocre". Additional 3 years of training do suddenly turn them into saber gods. Yap. And because they are "mediocre" in the forms, which they trained for 10 years, it makes much sense for them to turn away from that forms and towards other forms. Notice: If you can't do one thing right, you better do a second thing wrong - old Jedi rule.
You still didn't address the point. Avoidance much?
What "point" are you talking about? You effectively tried to tell me that it is impossible to retain a "clear" mind, while using the Dark Side. So by this logic, anybody using the Dark Side must be somehow mentally deluded while doing that. But let me make it easier for you. Can you read?
his firewalls have opened so that the terror and the rage are out there, in the fight instead of in his head, and Anakin's mind is clear as a crystal bell.
Read that. So...what is Anakin "using" here? Correct answer: terror and rage, which are "out in the fight". Can it be that "rage" normally isn't use by a Jedi for fighting? Yes? So what is Anakin using here? The Dark Side maybe? Yes? Thanks for reading.
He never said, "You should use your dark feelings." He simply said you have these traits, and you don't use them. That's not a suggestion, that's an observation. And how is he supposed to convert Anakin if, according to you, he was neither taunting him nor using Don Moch?
What in the blue hell is your problem? Let me once again try the "explanation for children" way: We know that Dooku's intention is to turn Anakin to the Dark Side. I see that you have understood the concept so far. Now: How is Dooku supposed to convert Anakin to the Dark Side without having Anakin utilizing his dark feelings?
So. Can it be that Dooku wanted Anakin to use the Dark Side there? Obviously, yes. So what was the intention of Dooku's words: Insulting Anakin? Or making him tap into the Dark Side?
In that instance, he was, although it was a completely different situation.
Okay. At any given sunday, Luke will freak out and this will enable him to defeat Vader. Vice versa: If Luke doesn't freaks out, Vader would most likely destroy him with superior training, skill and experience.
And this is precisely what we have in the Anakin-VS-Dooku fight. Anakin freaks out, which enables him to defeat Dooku. Any given sunday. Can he do that in every situation or can it be that Dooku's superior training, skill and experience will lead to the destruction of Skywalker in a lightsaber fight?
So Dooku, while fighting Anakin, who wants to kill him, thinks its a bright idea to give Anakin "good advice" to help destroy him? Hmmm... And you can say "stfu" all you want, but it doesn't change anything or help your cause.
You aren't the brightest light that ever shone, are you? Yes, Dooku advices Anakin to utilize the Dark Side because of wanting to convert him and because he thrusts Sidious, who promised that he will interfere and have Dooku leave the ship alive, should anything go wrong. Dooku didn't have any reason to assume, that Skywalker could beat him before he taunted Anakin into using his anger and hatred considering that both Jedi together weren't able to do the job.
So Dooku, no matter what, did never try to defeat Skywalker, at least not before taunting him to give into his dark feelings. My entire point is that, leaving this entire plot apart, in an all out fight RotS Dooku would still defeat RotS Anakin and RotS Kenobi, because he would use all the chances he got to get rid of Skywalker. It is really that easy.
Originally posted by Borbarad
Give me a call when you've understood the concept of "flaming", Gideon.
Note to all bystanders: this is Nai's not-so-clever way of soliciting minors online. He initiates a flame war, offers his characteristic retarded/hypocritical/bullshit arguments, and once the kitchen gets too hot for the chef here, he leaves little lines like this. No, Nai. I have no intention of "calling" you. Assuming your reading comprehension has improved over the years, I'm told that Pedophilia 101 by Michael Jackson is the book for you.
The "problem" you had is irrelevant as was your quote. I was merely pointing out that you can't criticize a source and then use it again because you're just happy. And thanks for dodging the point I made by accusing me of dodging the point.
No one dodged anything, Darth Nai, though I appreciate the black and white mentality. The problem you bring up is that the scenario with Yoda and Palpatine had a legitimate complaint. If you can account for Yoda disarming Yoda, pwning him with his lightning, and then jumping away for no reason (allowing Palpatine to attack him once again), we'll talk. Until then, it's an irrelevant misdirection.
Okay. I'll explain it for the three-year-olds around here: Dooku didn't went into the fight with the desire or intention to beat Anakin, because he wanted to convert him to the Dark Side. Got that so far? I hope so. Now, given that he didn't want to defeat or kill Anakin, how can you conclude from his performance there and then that he wasn't [b]able to do it?[/B]
Ah, I see. Because intentions don't change given the circumstances? Say, aren't you the one who said that Dooku held his own against Yoda, even though the Jedi was unwilling to kill Yoda, visibly held back during the duel, and made it specifically clear to Mace Windu that he wanted to "bring [Dooku] in alive"? Aren't you the one who paraded and suggested they're on par? Double standards galore.
He never tried to do it. That's the entire point here. He went into the fight with the command to get capture by Skywalker. He, even at the climax of their confrontation, wants to convert Anakin instead of defeating him (according to Lucas own words). That directly contradicts the novels interpretation. He can't be trying to convert him while wanting to kill him at the same time. So where does he try to overcome Anakin, Gideon? The right answer is: [b]nowhere[/B]
Right, so Dooku let himself die. I guess it doesn't matter then, since Dooku clearly has a death wish.
Hence your pitty conclusions are simply false. And on a side-note: now you can go back to the beginning of that "debate" here. What did I say? I said that Dooku was still too much for them in RotS. And what? You admit that Dooku is quite superior in force mastery and I talk about Dooku going "all out" on his opponents. Now Gideon. Tell me what would happen if we repeat that match with the same setup, but this time with Dooku wanting to [b]kill both Jedi at any cost instead of attempting to convert Anakin? Would Obi-Wan and Anakin win?[/B]
No one denied Dooku's superior Force mastery and no one is saying that the exact outcome would happen again, Nai. But I guess that's Nazi logic for you.
At least, I have a tail between my legs that I can leave with, Grace. And please don't forget to mention Goebbels in your next "Nai's a Nazi" flame.
Thanks for the suggestion. I'm sure he was a personal hero.
Edit: LOL @ Dooku trusting Sidious. He feared him, respected him, perhaps admired him. But "treachery is the way of the Sith" was running through Dooku's mind before the duel started. He's a complete and utter moron if he trusted Sidious.
Originally posted by Gideon
Note to all bystanders: this is Nai's not-so-clever way of soliciting minors online. He initiates a flame war, offers his characteristic retarded/hypocritical/bullshit arguments, and once the kitchen gets too hot for the chef here, he leaves little lines like this. No, Nai. I have no intention of "calling" you. Assuming your reading comprehension has improved over the years, I'm told that Pedophilia 101 by Michael Jackson is the book for you.
Aww, Gideon. I'd really love to read a book that you praised to me but I really don't think I want to dig into the secrets of your childhood. So pardon me, if I'd rather stick with Goethe, Schiller, Shakespeare or Poe. Those are authors in case you don't know. I'm just telling you that because, considering all the time you must waste with skimming through SW literature, you might have missed the people who don't write in that particular field.
No one dodged anything, Darth Nai, though I appreciate the black and white mentality. The problem you bring up is that the scenario with Yoda and Palpatine had a legitimate complaint. If you can account for Yoda disarming Yoda, pwning him with his lightning, and then jumping away for no reason (allowing Palpatine to attack him once again), we'll talk. Until then, it's an irrelevant misdirection.
I know that the concept of reasoning escapes (!) you, Gideon. But, okay. So Anakin doesn't tire while Obi-Wan and Dooku do. Effect on the fight? Apparently none, since Dooku keeps kicking Obi-Wan and Anakin's sorry asses across the place with his superior force abilities. Even less effect since the same story mentions that Dooku simply removes the effects of being tired out by shortly tapping into the Dark Side reviving himself.
Effectively, all you can do with that statement is argue that Anakin could possibly wear down Dooku in a long lasting lightsaber battle. Which has no effect on this debate since my entire point is that Dooku could saber or force rape Anakin at any given time, if he hadn't entered the fight with the command to get capture and the intention to convert Skywalker.
Ah, I see. Because intentions don't change given the circumstances? Say, aren't you the one who said that Dooku held his own against Yoda, even though the Jedi was unwilling to kill Yoda, visibly held back during the duel, and made it specifically clear to Mace Windu that he wanted to "bring [Dooku] in alive"? Aren't you the one who paraded and suggested they're on par? Double standards galore.
And more ammunition from the Gideon realm of fiction about Nai Fohl. Impressive. No, Gideon. I was the guy that pointed out that Yoda would have thrashed Dooku when being confronted with the ridiculous assertion that the upper limit of Yoda's power is shown when he prevents Anakin and Obi-Wan from getting smashed by those metal structure. This to a point where I was commonly referred to as "Yoda fanboy" by certain people (see Kun VS Yoda / Revan VS Yoda debates). So apparently, I am not the person you are thinking about. But nice try.
And to answer your initial question: Yes. Intentions can change given the circumstances, Gideon. The point is that this supposes "change of intention" could just have happened after Dooku taunted Anakin into using his hatred and anger. That gives Dooku 12 seconds (in the movie) to realize Anakin using the Dark Side might be dangerous, change his intention from "converting" into "killing" before Anakin cuts his hands off. Either that simply didn't happen, because Dooku was confident that Sidious would prevent him from getting killed anyway or Dooku, for some unknown reason, didn't develop the idea that he could simply force rape the guy in front of them.
Right, so Dooku let himself die. I guess it doesn't matter then, since Dooku clearly has a death wish.
No, because once more, he was either under the impression that Skywalker wasn't a serious threat for him or thrusted Sidious.
No one denied Dooku's superior Force mastery and no one is saying that the exact outcome would happen again, Nai. But I guess that's Nazi logic for you.
I advised you to use Goebbels in your next Nazi flame. You've failed again. And can you please tell me what you're arguing here if you consider it possible that Dooku might defeat the Jedi if not entering the fight under the same circumstances (which was pretty much all I claimed) ?
Thanks for the suggestion. I'm sure he was a personal hero.
Oh sure. I celebrate Hitlers birthday every year. In fact it's that date I went to my confirmation.
Edit: LOL @ Dooku trusting Sidious. He feared him, respected him, perhaps admired him. But "treachery is the way of the Sith" was running through Dooku's mind before the duel started. He's a complete and utter moron if he trusted Sidious.
And nonetheless he looked like a puppy who received the newspaper beating of a lifetime when Sidious ordered Anakin to kill him. It's quite obvious that he didn't expect that to happen.
Originally posted by Borbarad
Aww, Gideon. I'd really love to read a book that you praised to me but I really don't think I want to dig into the secrets of your childhood.
Not your best, Nai. Surely you've been indoctrinated on how to turn insults around better than this.
So pardon me, if I'd rather stick with Goethe, Schiller, Shakespeare or Poe. Those are authors in case you don't know. I'm just telling you that because, considering all the time you must waste with skimming through SW literature, you might have missed the people who don't write in that particular field.
Is that your hostile way of bringing me to task because I proved you wrong about the Ancient Sith, Palpatine, and et cetera?
I know that the concept of reasoning escapes (!) you, Gideon. But, okay. So Anakin doesn't tire while Obi-Wan and Dooku do. Effect on the fight? Apparently none, since Dooku keeps kicking Obi-Wan and Anakin's sorry asses across the place with his superior force abilities. Even less effect since the same story mentions that Dooku simply removes the effects of being tired out by shortly tapping into the Dark Side reviving himself.
Oh, but NAI! YOU CAN'T USE MATERIAL FROM THE NOVELIZATION! YOU CAN'T PICK AND CHOOSE! LOLZ!
I can do that too.
Effectively, all you can do with that statement is argue that Anakin could possibly wear down Dooku in a long lasting lightsaber battle. Which has no effect on this debate since my entire point is that Dooku could saber or force rape Anakin at any given time, if he hadn't entered the fight with the command to get capture and the intention to convert Skywalker.
Rape Anakin with the Force? Sure. With a saber? Perhaps if Anakin were disarmed, bound, and willing to partake in such an event.
And more ammunition from the Gideon realm of fiction about Nai Fohl. Impressive. No, Gideon. I was the guy that pointed out that Yoda would have thrashed Dooku when being confronted with the ridiculous assertion that the upper limit of Yoda's power is shown when he prevents Anakin and Obi-Wan from getting smashed by those metal structure. This to a point where I was commonly referred to as "Yoda fanboy" by certain people (see Kun VS Yoda / Revan VS Yoda debates). So apparently, I am not the person you are thinking about. But nice try.
Nice try? A brilliant success. Got you to admit that you're a Yoda fanboy.
And to answer your initial question: Yes. Intentions can change given the circumstances, Gideon. The point is that this supposes "change of intention" could just have happened after Dooku taunted Anakin into using his hatred and anger. That gives Dooku 12 seconds (in the movie) to realize Anakin using the Dark Side might be dangerous, change his intention from "converting" into "killing" before Anakin cuts his hands off. Either that simply didn't happen, because Dooku was confident that Sidious would prevent him from getting killed anyway or Dooku, for some unknown reason, didn't develop the idea that he could simply force rape the guy in front of them.
I make room for the possibility that Dooku didn't think to summon his Force powers. After all, this is the same selfish, deceitful, violent man who -- when disarmed and at the mercy of Skywalker -- couldn't summon the common sense to expose Sidious for what he was. He's not exactly the most accepting and adaptable of personages, Nai.
No, because once more, he was either under the impression that Skywalker wasn't a serious threat for him or thrusted Sidious.
That would be where I mentioned earlier: "egotism".
I advised you to use Goebbels in your next Nazi flame. You've failed again. And can you please tell me what you're arguing here if you consider it possible that Dooku might defeat the Jedi if not entering the fight under the same circumstances (which was pretty much all I claimed) ?
I want time to break it in, Nai. All good things come in time. I'm here because you initiated the argument earlier about Anakin's victory over the Count. Something that I used as rationale for his superiority over the other fighters. I came to debate it.
Oh sure. I celebrate Hitlers birthday every year. In fact it's that date I went to my confirmation.
Sounds like you. SS uniform come in the mail, yet?
And nonetheless he looked like a puppy who received the newspaper beating of a lifetime when Sidious ordered Anakin to kill him. It's quite obvious that he didn't expect that to happen.
Maybe because he just got his ass kicked by someone, what? A fourth his age and experience? Someone whom he was disgusted and repulsed by?
Originally posted by BorbaradWell you can try to twist my words all you want. It doesn't make you cool and it doesn't make you right. If you could properly read, as you seem to so keen on everyone else doing, you would have noticed that I said continue trying to convert, when that that person is trying to kill you, and has the ability to do so rather quickly. Nice try though.
Oh wait, Susan. Now you're telling me that it doesn't make sense trying to convert somebody when you know that the guy can kill you. Okay. So, reversing that statement, this means that Dooku didn't think that Anakin could be a threat for him before telling him to use his anger and hatred? Thanks for confirming my line of thought.
Originally posted by Borbarad
Allright, Sally. So after 10 years of training their respective forms, their skill in them is "mediocre". Additional 3 years of training do suddenly turn them into saber gods. Yap. And because they are "mediocre" in the forms, which they trained for 10 years, it makes much sense for them to turn away from that forms and towards other forms. Notice: If you can't do one thing right, you better do a second thing wrong - old Jedi rule.
Can you prove when, after Ep1, OB1 started using his form? He sure as hell didn't use it in TPM, and he trained in that form a lot longer than he did in form 3. Anakin, whose powers "have doubled" (although that was not completely accurate) could have, and did grow exponentially in his saber techniques. The proof of this is, in AoTC, he got his arm chopped off and in RoTS, Dooku lost his hands and his head. As for OB1, he obviously got better, cause Dooku never once penetrated his defenses in RoTS. He had to resort to the force. And you still haven't proved they used their chosen forms.
Originally posted by Borbarad
What "point" are you talking about? You effectively tried to tell me that it is impossible to retain a "clear" mind, while using the Dark Side. So by this logic, anybody using the Dark Side must be somehow mentally deluded while doing that. But let me make it easier for you. Can you read?his firewalls have opened so that the terror and the rage are out there, in the fight instead of in his head, and Anakin's mind is clear as a crystal bell.
Read that. So...what is Anakin "using" here? Correct answer: [b]terror
and rage, which are "out in the fight". Can it be that "rage" normally isn't use by a Jedi for fighting? Yes? So what is Anakin using here? The Dark Side maybe? Yes? Thanks for reading. [/B]
Originally posted by BorbaradOk great. That's what he wanted, but that
What in the blue hell is your problem? Let me once again try the "explanation for children" way: We know that Dooku's intention is to turn Anakin to the Dark Side. I see that you have understood the concept so far. Now: How is Dooku supposed to convert Anakin to the Dark Side without having Anakin utilizing his dark feelings?
Originally posted by BorbaradUse the darkside and giving into it, which is what he wanted, are different. Had he given in, he would have "become an agent of evil." Unfortunately for your boyfriend Dooku, that didn't happen.
So. Can it be that Dooku wanted Anakin to use the Dark Side there? Obviously, yes. So what was the intention of Dooku's words: Insulting Anakin? Or making him tap into the Dark Side?
Originally posted by BorbaradAgreed. But he still had love for his son and didn't want to kill him, which is different than your backstabbing master telling you not to kill someone and then having to fight for your life after you've decided to kill. Wasn't his fight with Anakin his "crowning achievement?"
Okay. At any given sunday, Luke will freak out and this will enable him to defeat Vader. Vice versa: If Luke doesn't freaks out, Vader would most likely destroy him with superior training, skill and experience.
Originally posted by BorbaradBut the point you're obviously missing is that Anakin didn't "freak out." He stayed in control, he held back and was still pwning him, and then simply had to "decide" to win. He didn't freak out or go berserk, he outclassed Dooku as he would normally do at this point in time.
And this is precisely what we have in the Anakin-VS-Dooku fight. Anakin freaks out, which enables him to defeat Dooku. Any given sunday. Can he do that in every situation or can it be that Dooku's superior training, skill and experience will lead to the destruction of Skywalker in a lightsaber fight?
Originally posted by BorbaradHe thrusted Sidious? Well shit, I'd turn on him too. Two don't always work better than one, as proved by this encounter. He was holding back and still forcing Dooku on the defensive. And it said that he knew half way through the fight that he was set up. And no, you 2 watt light bulb, he never, let me repeat, NEVER advised Anakin to use his fear. He simply said, "YOU DON'T USE THEM." You can try to twist that too into what you would take that to mean, but in the literal sense of what he said, he never said he should use those feelings.
You aren't the brightest light that ever shone, are you? Yes, Dooku advices Anakin to utilize the Dark Side because of wanting to convert him and because he thrusts Sidious, who promised that he will interfere and have Dooku leave the ship alive, should anything go wrong. Dooku didn't have any reason to assume, that Skywalker could beat him before he taunted Anakin into using his anger and hatred considering that both Jedi together weren't able to do the job.
Originally posted by BorbaradApparently not, and you have still yet to prove that.
So Dooku, no matter what, did never try to defeat Skywalker, at least not before taunting him to give into his dark feelings. My entire point is that, leaving this entire plot apart, in an all out fight RotS Dooku would still defeat RotS Anakin and RotS Kenobi, because he would use all the chances he got to get rid of Skywalker. It is really that easy.
And i thought all you AFC boys' main objective was to "rid these boards of fanboyism!!!!" yet you're on Dooku's dick like a rubber. Hmmm, that's strange, isn't it?
Originally posted by Gideon
Not your best, Nai. Surely you've been indoctrinated on how to turn insults around better than this.
Sorry. If you don't want to talk about the funny doctor games you were playing with your uncle, it's your choice. Not that anyone here did want to read anything about it anyways.
Is that your hostile way of bringing me to task because I proved you wrong about the Ancient Sith, Palpatine, and et cetera?
Nope. That's my friendly way to tell you that should you ever reach my level of education, which is not saying that you can, SW is a topic that even rests among the Top 100 list of things to spend your time with. The statement can also be interpreted as me calling you a nerd. Aside of that: Am I such a great idol for you that you have to keep boasting about "haven proved me wrong", which, ironically, has never happened?
Oh, but NAI! YOU CAN'T USE MATERIAL FROM THE NOVELIZATION! YOU CAN'T PICK AND CHOOSE! LOLZ!I can do that too.
Look. Great Gideon is dodging the point once more. Seems so, that this is your new trademark behavior – a pitiful attempt to skip debates that you know you can't win, correct? I've expected more than that.
Rape Anakin with the Force? Sure. With a saber? Perhaps if Anakin were disarmed, bound, and willing to partake in such an event.
And here we again have Nick Gillard stepping in, claiming that Anakin's abilities with a lightsaber don't exceed that of Obi-Wan Kenobi, if he doesn't go into his "controled Dark Side mode". You fanboyism, I'm afraid, doesn't change that. Boohoo.
Nice try? A brilliant success. Got you to admit that you're a Yoda fanboy.
Another pitiful attempt for an insult. God, kid – are you ever going to learn how to do it right? So...people called me "Yoda fanboy", I say that, and suddenly this is you getting me to admit that I'm a Yoda fanboy. Hell. People called you an idiot, Sidious fanboy, whiner, lousy debator and, finally, a little boy here. So...since you can't deny that, you have to admit it, and since you have to admit it, all of them must be right. Gosh.
I make room for the possibility that Dooku didn't think to summon his Force powers. After all, this is the same selfish, deceitful, violent man who -- when disarmed and at the mercy of Skywalker -- couldn't summon the common sense to expose Sidious for what he was. He's not exactly the most accepting and adaptable of personages, Nai.
Wow. Let's go strawman across the place, Gideon. So, because Dooku didn't use his last breath to tell Anakin that Sidious is the other Sith - which Anakin would have certainly believed, considering he didn't even believe it, when the words where coming from Sidious himself (watch the sarcasm there), and has no reason to thrust Dooku – he is inable to attapt to certain situations. May I point out once more, that he had the entirety of 12 seconds after taunting Anakin into using the Dark Side, to realize that the boy, doing so, might be too much for him, develop the thaught, that he might ignore the previous orders from Sidious and instead attempt to kill his opponent and then act – before Anakin did cut his hands off?
That would be where I mentioned earlier: "egotism".
How would that be egotism, Gideon? Dooku did manage to stay alive against Kenobi and Skywalker combined. Not only that. He managed to floor Kenobi once, and then floor both opponents, taking one of them completely out of the fight. So why in the blue hell should he think that the remaining one of the duo could be a threat to him?
He taunted Skywalker into using the Dark Side and he must have known that this will give Anakin some sort of "power boost" (possibly something like we've seen when Kenobi attacked Maul after the Sith had killed his master). But apparently he was under the impression (and please, consider his duel experience and superior force ablities) that he could still handle Anakin if that should happen (and possible caunting on support by Sidious if that shouldn't be the case). Yet he wasn't confronted with an assault by a fighter who's mind was temporarily clouded by the Dark Side (a "slaughtering machine" as the novel states) but instead with somebody that used the Dark Side in a controlled fashion to boost his usual skill. He simply couldn't have expected that from a guy that didn't go through any "Dark Side training".
I want time to break it in, Nai. All good things come in time. I'm here because you initiated the argument earlier about Anakin's victory over the Count. Something that I used as rationale for his superiority over the other fighters. I came to debate it.
Since Anakin is in a "every given sunday" state, you simply can't use that last bit of his duel against Dooku to judge his regular skill with a lightsaber. If you want to do that, you would have to say that TPM Kenobi is better than Maul with a lightsaber and that RotJ Luke can defeat Vader regardless of the circumstances.
Sounds like you. SS uniform come in the mail, yet?
You shouldn't confuse me with your boyfriend, Gideon, who's clearly the better person to talk to, if you want your wierd Nazi-sex-fantasies fulfilled. By the way, as we're already talking about your mindset. Why in the blue hell are you using the hebrew word for "lumberjack" as a nickname? Or is that just an allusion to your action of turning Sidious into a godlike idol to worship until your downfall, mirroring what the biblical figure with that name did?
Maybe because he just got his ass kicked by someone, what? A fourth his age and experience? Someone whom he was disgusted and repulsed by?
Ah. That's why he's showing that expression after Sidious commands Anakin to kill him and this is also why he looks at Sidious while doing so. Perfect explanation.
Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Well you can try to twist my words all you want. It doesn't make you cool and it doesn't make you right. If you could properly read, as you seem to so keen on everyone else doing, you would have noticed that I said continue trying to convert, when that that person is trying to kill you, and has the ability to do so rather quickly. Nice try though.
Which did happen when exactly, Shannon? Oh right. Dooku possibly realized that Anakin is indeed able to kill him, after taunting him into using the Dark Side and being attacked by Anakin again. This, in the movie, happens precisely 12 seconds before Dooku loses his hands. So what was it, you wanted to tell me, us, the entire world? That Dooku in this 12 seconds did come to realize he can't keep Anakin at bay any longer, made the decission to kill him instead of following the orders of Sidious and then really fought with all he could. For that freaking 12 seconds that tell us precisely nothing about Anakin's lightsaber skill?
Dude, really, the chick names are coming off kind of fruity. It's not funny, cynical, or even clever. It has no bearing on the argument nor does it make me think you're right. In all actuality, it's pretty lame. 😬
Dear Sandy. Considering you wasted your precious free-time in commenting this habid, it apparently affects you which is the effect I had in mind.
Can you prove when, after Ep1, OB1 started using his form? He sure as hell didn't use it in TPM, and he trained in that form a lot longer than he did in form 3.
It says that Obi-Wan switched forms directly after the duel against Maul, because he had witnessed his master dying because of a lack of defensive abilities. So he probably started right after TPM. For the second sentence: Well. What is "a lot longer" for you? As far as I remember we have 10 years passing between TPM and AotC in which Obi-Wan practiced form III. As, apparently, a Jedi picks his lightsaber form, when becoming a Padawan, he started using form IV in the age of 13 until TPM (when he was 25). That are about 12 years. He then started to use form III – 10 years to TPM. Is that "a lot longer" for you?
Anakin, whose powers "have doubled" (although that was not completely accurate) could have, and did grow exponentially in his saber techniques. The proof of this is, in AoTC, he got his arm chopped off and in RoTS, Dooku lost his hands and his head. As for OB1, he obviously got better, cause Dooku never once penetrated his defenses in RoTS. He had to resort to the force. And you still haven't proved they used their chosen forms.
Wow. Has it become common debating manner here to pull of false conclusions? At the moment Anakin starts using the Dark Side in RotS, he's not on his "usual" level of skill any longer. Get that fact into your head. So if you take anything out of the RotS fight, then the sequence he fights Dooku before Dooku taunts him. And what do we see there? Anakin drives Dooku back, but clearly doesn't built enough pressure up to keep the Sith from using his force powers. Yet this all happens, when Dooku is still willing not to hurt, harm or kill Skywalker, but he wants to convert him to the Dark Side. Shocking. Anakin is not losing any body parts, because nobody is trying to cut them off. He still ends up being kicked into a wall first and is also not capable of double-teaming Dooku. A testament to his great lightsaber skills, I suppose.
Exactly, there was no rage or terror in his mind, which would have been the presence of the darkside. His mind was clear of all emotions and distractions.
Dude. He is using rage and terror to fight Dooku. Get it into your head. He's clearly using the Darkside, even though it doesn't "cloud his mind". The only way I could make it more clear to you would be to write it on a wooden board and beat you multiple times with it.
Ok great. That's what he wanted, but that's not what he got. Had he gotten Anakin to give into the darkside, the fight would have been over and he would still be alive.
Thanks for repeating what I said while thinking you're arguing with me...🙄
And the last person i give a shit about trying to insult me, is you. You have to matter to me first. And sadly, you don't.
Congratulations! Your Dimaggio-like streak for saying nothing even remotely interesting is still alive and well! Oh, my God; I care so little, I almost passed out!
Use the darkside and giving into it, which is what he wanted, are different. Had he given in, he would have "become an agent of evil." Unfortunately for your boyfriend Dooku, that didn't happen.
Nope, Christina. Using the Dark Side is pretty much the same as giving into it. It doesn't matter if your mind is clouded by anger or you're just using your anger. What do you want to tell us? That all Sith Lords in history weren't Dark Siders, only in those situations in which they went mad? Please. Anakin in fact gets "evil" enough to ignore the Jedi Code and take Dookus hands (as an action of revenge) and then kill the already disarmed opponent who was at his mercy. Just to start whining about how wrong that was immediately after he did it. What's that if not giving in to the Dark Side?
Agreed. But he still had love for his son and didn't want to kill him, which is different than your backstabbing master telling you not to kill someone and then having to fight for your life after you've decided to kill. Wasn't his fight with Anakin his "crowning achievement?"
For the sake of God. The point is that Dooku can't have developed that thought until the point where he finally taunted Anakin and was attacked again (so after he finished trying to convert Anakin). What precisely should he have done in the 12 seconds the fight did last after that? Apparently he should realize that he can't take Anakin any longer (which would obviously come to his mind after fending off a few attacks from Anakin – which reduces the time limit above even further), then decide he has to do all he can and kill Anakin. And after he has done that, he probably lost his hands before being able to do anything?
Which doesn't matter at all, because this isn't Anakin's regular lightsaber skill we see there.
But the point you're obviously missing is that Anakin didn't "freak out." He stayed in control, he held back and was still pwning him, and then simply had to "decide" to win. He didn't freak out or go berserk, he outclassed Dooku as he would normally do at this point in time.
Oh. He would "normally" at that point in time? You mean as he also "decided" to kill Obi-Wan Kenobi and then simply...got turned into a great chunk of burned meat? Face it, buddy: Anakin's regular lightsaber skill, without using the Dark Side – which he did against Dooku – is, according to Nick Gillard, just on paar with Obi-Wan Kenobi. So...do you want to tell me that Obi-Wan Kenobi can take Dooku in a lightsaber fight? Yes? No?
He thrusted Sidious? Well shit, I'd turn on him too. Two don't always work better than one, as proved by this encounter. He was holding back and still forcing Dooku on the defensive. And it said that he knew half way through the fight that he was set up. And no, you 2 watt light bulb, he never, let me repeat, NEVER advised Anakin to use his fear. He simply said, "YOU DON'T USE THEM." You can try to twist that too into what you would take that to mean, but in the literal sense of what he said, he never said he should use those feelings.
Wow! In think, that in your room we have enough brain power to light up a city! Not a real city, mind you, but definitely a tiny ant city whose government has recently passed a series of stringent energy conservation laws!
I spell it out once more for you, Newbie: The fight happening in the book is not the same fight happening in the novel. Did you see Anakin and Obi-Wan teaming up and almost kill Dooku with coordinated manouvers? Damn sure, you didn't. And then? Anakin was holding back and still owning Dooku? When did that happen? While Dooku force pushed Kenobi and seconds later leveled both of the Jedi? I don't think so. In the 12 seconds! he goes one on one with Dooku? Yes, that seems to be the only time left.
So okay. In 12 FREAKING SECONDS Anakin is first confused from a taunt which never happened (Dooku calling him a posturing child etc). He then goes through a rather complicated line of thoughts which led him to finally accept his anger, rage, hatred etc. and utilize them instead getting consumed by them. He, after that, finds the time to still hold back while (while deflecting two force attacks from Dooku throwing things at him – which also never happened) – even with that – owning Dooku, and then he decides that now he has to seriously engage the Sith Lord and finally defeats him. This all, Ladies and Gentleman, in 12 seconds of time passing between the initial taunt and Dooku losing his hands. Does that sound right for you? Does that make sense? I don't think so.
Apparently not, and you have still yet to prove that.And i thought all you AFC boys' main objective was to "rid these boards of fanboyism!!!!" yet you're on Dooku's dick like a rubber. Hmmm, that's strange, isn't it?
Listen closely, Tiny Dancer: I wouldn’t be flapping my mouth if I'd spent my time here arguing against the primary source material [which is the movie, not the novel], George Lucas own words [even higher level of canon] and the words of Nick Gillard. On a sidenote: Do you at least remember what you were doing the day they were passing out common sense?
Originally posted by Borbarad
Sorry. If you don't want to talk about the funny doctor games you were playing with your uncle, it's your choice. Not that anyone here did want to read anything about it anyways.
Jesus Christ, LOL. You go from borrowing comments by ACstyles and Nebaris to borrowing my own jokes about pedophilia. You lose points for originality, Nai.
Nope. That's my friendly way to tell you that should you ever reach my level of education, which is not saying that you can, SW is a topic that even rests among the Top 100 list of things to spend your time with. The statement can also be interpreted as me calling you a nerd. Aside of that: Am I such a great idol for you that you have to keep boasting about "haven proved me wrong", which, ironically, has never happened?
LOL @ the thirty-year-old Nazi who trolls internet forums, makes assertions, loses, leaves the aforementioned forum, pops in his DVD collection of House, waits six months, comes back, rinse and repeat calling anyone a nerd.
Look. Great Gideon is dodging the point once more. Seems so, that this is your new trademark behavior – a pitiful attempt to skip debates that you know you can't win, correct? I've expected more than that.
LOL @ the thirty-year-old Nazi bringing up how I "pick and choose" from the script, being refuted, and yet when I bring up how he picks and chooses from the novelization, he accuses me of dodging the point.
And here we again have Nick Gillard stepping in, claiming that Anakin's abilities with a lightsaber don't exceed that of Obi-Wan Kenobi, if he doesn't go into his "controled Dark Side mode". You fanboyism, I'm afraid, doesn't change that. Boohoo.
LOL @ the thirty-year-old Nazi using Nick Gillard as a source, something he used to scoff at doing, proving himself to not only be a thirty-year-old Nazi with no life, but a hypocrite as well. Might as well call him SS Captain Vice for his appalling lack of virtues.
Another pitiful attempt for an insult. God, kid – are you ever going to learn how to do it right? So...people called me "Yoda fanboy", I say that, and suddenly this is you getting me to admit that I'm a Yoda fanboy. Hell. People called you an idiot, Sidious fanboy, whiner, lousy debator and, finally, a little boy here. So...since you can't deny that, you have to admit it, and since you have to admit it, all of them must be right. Gosh.
LOL @ the thirty-year-old Nazi being called a "Yoda fanboy" by his cabal of friends on the internet, calling me a Sidious fanboy, and then throwing a hissy fit and listing a bunch of pejoratives, never mind the fact that he himself has been called each one numerous times himself.
Wow. Let's go strawman across the place, Gideon. So, because Dooku didn't use his last breath to tell Anakin that Sidious is the other Sith - which Anakin would have certainly believed, considering he didn't even believe it, when the words where coming from Sidious himself (watch the sarcasm there), and has no reason to thrust Dooku – he is inable to attapt to certain situations. May I point out once more, that he had the entirety of [b]12 seconds after taunting Anakin into using the Dark Side, to realize that the boy, doing so, might be too much for him, develop the thaught, that he might ignore the previous orders from Sidious and instead attempt to kill his opponent and then act – before Anakin did cut his hands off?[/B]
LOL @ the thirty-year-old Nazi not realizing that twelve seconds is practically an eternity for a clever, experienced warrior with Force enhanced reflexes in an attempt to provide cosmetics to Dooku's total screw up. Also LOL'ing at the fact that the same Nazi has yet to provide a valid excuse for Dooku's silence.
How would that be egotism, Gideon? Dooku did manage to stay alive against Kenobi and Skywalker combined. Not only that. He managed to floor Kenobi once, and then floor both opponents, taking one of them completely out of the fight. So why in the blue hell should he think that the remaining one of the duo could be a threat to him?
LOL @ the thirty-year-old Nazi making excuses for Dooku's lack of regard that inevitably caused his death; also LOL'ing at his apparent ignorance of "irony".
He taunted Skywalker into using the Dark Side and he must have known that this will give Anakin some sort of "power boost" (possibly something like we've seen when Kenobi attacked Maul after the Sith had killed his master). But apparently he was under the impression (and please, consider his duel experience and superior force ablities) that he could still handle Anakin if that should happen (and possible caunting on support by Sidious if that shouldn't be the case). Yet he wasn't confronted with an assault by a fighter who's mind was temporarily clouded by the Dark Side (a "slaughtering machine" as the novel states) but instead with somebody that used the Dark Side in a controlled fashion to boost his usual skill. He simply couldn't have expected that from a guy that didn't go through any "Dark Side training".
LOL @ the thirty-year-old Nazi making excuses for Dooku's lack of regard, precaution, and understanding of the dark side's effects on those who even briefly tap into its strength, even though Dooku was a Sith Lord for thirteen years.
Since Anakin is in a "every given sunday" state, you simply can't use that last bit of his duel against Dooku to judge his regular skill with a lightsaber. If you want to do that, you would have to say that TPM Kenobi is better than Maul with a lightsaber and that RotJ Luke can defeat Vader regardless of the circumstances.
LOL @ the thirty-year-old Nazi not accepting that that rage became an integral part of Anakin's makeup. It wasn't just a "temporary" fix. Fighting with rage makes one an overwhelming opponent for the dark side; why would Palpatine be urging Anakin and Luke to use it if it was just temporary? He wants the strongest apprentice, as per Lucas's own words according to the commentary.
You shouldn't confuse me with your boyfriend, Gideon, who's clearly the better person to talk to, if you want your wierd Nazi-sex-fantasies fulfilled. By the way, as we're already talking about your mindset. Why in the blue hell are you using the hebrew word for "lumberjack" as a nickname? Or is that just an allusion to your action of turning Sidious into a godlike idol to worship until your downfall, mirroring what the biblical figure with that name did?
LOL @ the thirty-year-old Nazi slip further along down the path to total retardation by bringing up "the boyfriend" jokes that haven't been seen since Nai's grade school days.
Ah. That's why he's showing that expression after Sidious commands Anakin to kill him and this is also why he looks at Sidious while doing so. Perfect explanation.
He's being completely abandoned, Nai. He ****ed himself over and no one's going to save his ass.
Originally posted by Borbarad
Which did happen when exactly, Shannon? Oh right. Dooku possibly realized that Anakin is indeed able to kill him, after taunting him into using the Dark Side and being attacked by Anakin again. This, in the movie, happens precisely 12 seconds before Dooku loses his hands. So what was it, you wanted to tell me, us, the entire world? That Dooku in this 12 seconds did come to realize he can't keep Anakin at bay any longer, made the decission to kill him instead of following the orders of Sidious and then really fought with all he could. For that freaking 12 seconds that tell us precisely nothing about Anakin's lightsaber skill?
Originally posted by BorbaradOn the contrary. It didn't affect me in any way other than making me laugh at how completely gay it is. And alas, you haven't failed to display your latent homosexuality yet again. Don't worry, we can call you metro-sexual if your closet door is still stuck.
Dear Sandy. Considering you wasted your precious free-time in commenting this habid, it apparently affects you which is the effect I had in mind.
Originally posted by Borbarad
It says that Obi-Wan switched forms directly after the duel against Maul, because he had witnessed his master dying because of a lack of defensive abilities. So he probably started right after TPM. For the second sentence: Well. What is "a lot longer" for you? As far as I remember we have 10 years passing between TPM and AotC in which Obi-Wan practiced form III. As, apparently, a Jedi picks his lightsaber form, when becoming a Padawan, he started using form IV in the age of 13 until TPM (when he was 25). That are about 12 years. He then started to use form III – 10 years to TPM. Is that "a lot longer" for you?
Originally posted by BorbaradWe understand that's what you do here, but we've learned to live with it.
Wow. Has it become common debating manner here to pull of false conclusions?
Originally posted by BorbaradDid the abilities come from Anakin? Was it him performing these moves? Yes? Ah ok, so it was Anakin's skill and not some mysterious temporary empowerment that grabbed ahold of him IN 12 FREAKING SECONDS!!!! Since you want to rely solely on the movie and not the book, we never see Sidious give Dooku orders not to hurt or kill Anakin, so it didn't happen. Isn't that how it goes, Nai? Lucas never says it in the commentary so again, it never happened.
At the moment Anakin starts using the Dark Side in RotS, he's not on his "usual" level of skill any longer. Get that fact into your head. So if you take anything out of the RotS fight, then the sequence he fights Dooku before Dooku taunts him. And what do we see there? Anakin drives Dooku back, but clearly doesn't built enough pressure up to keep the Sith from using his force powers. Yet this all happens, when Dooku is still willing not to hurt, harm or kill Skywalker, but he wants to convert him to the Dark Side. Shocking. Anakin is not losing any body parts, because nobody is trying to cut them off. He still ends up being kicked into a wall first and is also not capable of double-teaming Dooku. A testament to his great lightsaber skills, I suppose.
Originally posted by BorbaradI know you beating my wood is a sexual deviant fantasy of yours, but please, leave your homosexual intentions out of this.
Dude. He is using [b]rage and terror to fight Dooku. Get it into your head. He's clearly using the Darkside, even though it doesn't "cloud his mind". The only way I could make it more clear to you would be to write it on a wooden board and beat you multiple times with it. [/B]
Originally posted by BorbaradActually, you brain surgeon, I'm saying that he didn't give in to the darkside. Giving in to it, is not the same as "tapping in to it" as people here call it. Vader gave in to it when Mace died, and then he....*gasp again* BECAME A SITH!!! Shocking I know, but you'll soon get it.
Thanks for repeating what I said while thinking you're arguing with me...🙄
Originally posted by BorbaradOh wait how does this part go again? Oh yea, right, [NAI]Dear Sandy. Considering you wasted your precious free-time in commenting this habid, it apparently affects you which is the effect I had in mind. [/NAI]
Congratulations! Your Dimaggio-like streak for saying nothing even remotely interesting is still alive and well! Oh, my God; I care so little, I almost passed out!
Originally posted by BorbaradAgain, twisting words doesn't help your cause. He didn't take his hands off out of revenge, he did it to disarm him. He took his head out of revenge, but we're not debating that. And are you saying that Anakin went through this big complex line of thought IN 12 FRERAKING SECONDS!!!!!? Kinda thin, wouldn't you say?
Nope, Christina. Using the Dark Side is pretty much the same as giving into it. It doesn't matter if your mind is clouded by anger or you're just using your anger. What do you want to tell us? That all Sith Lords in history weren't Dark Siders, only in those situations in which they went mad? Please. Anakin in fact gets "evil" enough to ignore the Jedi Code and take Dookus hands (as an action of revenge) and then kill the already disarmed opponent who was at his mercy. Just to start whining about how wrong that was immediately after he did it. What's that if not giving in to the Dark Side?
Originally posted by BorbaradHe did it. It's his skill. And again, we don't see Sidious give Dooku any such orders in the movie, so it didn't happen. 😉
For the sake of God. The point is that Dooku can't have developed that thought until the point where he finally taunted Anakin and was attacked again (so after he finished trying to convert Anakin). What precisely should he have done in the 12 seconds the fight did last after that? Apparently he should realize that he can't take Anakin any longer (which would obviously come to his mind after fending off a few attacks from Anakin – which reduces the time limit above even further), then decide he has to do all he can and kill Anakin. And after he has done that, he probably lost his hands before being able to do anything?Which doesn't matter at all, because this isn't Anakin's regular lightsaber skill we see there.
Originally posted by BorbaradYou see, here's the difference. With OB1 - HE WAS IMMERSED IN THE DARKSIDE!!!!!!!!!!! With Dooku, which yielded a completely different outcome, he was not. Plus, OB1 and Anakin knew each other more intimately than Dooku ever could, so it would make sense for the fight to last longer, and with Anakin not thinking clearly, it was possible for OB1 to beat him. And I think Dooku would tire more quickly than OB1 in a lightsaber battle after OB1 defends all his attacks.
Oh. He would "normally" at that point in time? You mean as he also "decided" to kill Obi-Wan Kenobi and then simply...got turned into a great chunk of burned meat? Face it, buddy: Anakin's regular lightsaber skill, without using the Dark Side – which he did against Dooku – is, according to Nick Gillard, just on paar with Obi-Wan Kenobi. So...do you want to tell me that Obi-Wan Kenobi can take Dooku in a lightsaber fight? Yes? No?
Originally posted by BorbaradPointless avoidance.
Wow! In think, that in your room we have enough brain power to light up a city! Not a real city, mind you, but definitely a tiny ant city whose government has recently passed a series of stringent energy conservation laws!
Originally posted by BorbaradDid you see Sidious tell Dooku not to hurt/kill Anakin? [NAI]Damn sure, you didn't.[/NAI]
I spell it out once more for you, Newbie: The fight happening in the book is not the same fight happening in the novel. Did you see Anakin and Obi-Wan teaming up and almost kill Dooku with coordinated manouvers? Damn sure, you didn't. And then? Anakin was holding back and still owning Dooku? When did that happen? While Dooku force pushed Kenobi and seconds later leveled both of the Jedi? I don't think so. In the [b]12 seconds! he goes one on one with Dooku? Yes, that seems to be the only time left.[/B]
Originally posted by BorbaradSo one minute you're saying that Dooku taunted Anakin, then when it fits your "argument" he doesn't. Which is homo, I mean Nai?
So okay. In [b]12 FREAKING SECONDS Anakin is first confused from a taunt which never happened (Dooku calling him a posturing child etc). He then goes through a rather complicated line of thoughts which led him to finally accept his anger, rage, hatred etc. and utilize them instead getting consumed by them. He, after that, finds the time to still hold back while (while deflecting two force attacks from Dooku throwing things at him – which also never happened) – even with that – owning Dooku, and then he decides that now he has to seriously engage the Sith Lord and finally defeats him. This all, Ladies and Gentleman, in 12 seconds of time passing between the initial taunt and Dooku losing his hands. Does that sound right for you? Does that make sense? I don't think so.[/B]
Originally posted by BorbaradWhat did GL say exactly that you're clinging so dearly to? Your whole argument of not being able to hurt Anakin is coming from the novel, which, as you succinctly put it, is below the movie. Oh and i was trying to remove my penis from your mom's mouth.
Listen closely, Tiny Dancer: I wouldn’t be flapping my mouth if I'd spent my time here arguing against the primary source material [which is the movie, not the novel], George Lucas own words [even higher level of canon] and the words of Nick Gillard. On a sidenote: Do you at least remember what you were doing the day they were passing out common sense?
Originally posted by Gideon
Jesus Christ, LOL. You go from borrowing comments by ACstyles and Nebaris to borrowing my own jokes about pedophilia. You lose points for originality, Nai.
Oh? You have your "own jokes"? Geez. I have to admit that this must be the biggest revelation I've seen from you here - not that this means anything. And talking about "originality" when the only two words you seem to be capable of using are "House" and "Nazi" is simply hilarious. ROFLMAO.
LOL @ the thirty-year-old Nazi who trolls internet forums, makes assertions, loses, leaves the aforementioned forum, pops in his DVD collection of House, waits six months, comes back, rinse and repeat calling anyone a nerd.
Do you want to make my head explode, Gideon? You can't even possible imagine how frustrating it is to lecture you about the art of flaming in detail to just find out about five minutes later that this has been a complete and utter waste of time. So what now? Did I leave the forum to watch my DVD collection of House, or did I keep stalking you here? Stop contradicting yourself. On a sidenote: Points taken for not being able to come up with a proper defense for being called a nerd. More points away for "House" and "Nazi" again.
LOL @ the thirty-year-old Nazi bringing up how I "pick and choose" from the script, being refuted, and yet when I bring up how he picks and chooses from the novelization, he accuses me of dodging the point.
Oh look. Who did bring up the script here? You or me? Let me see. It was that guy called Gideon. Okay, pumpkin. Did I react to what you've quoted? Yes, sir. Did you keep on dodging the point with some lame excuses with generally involve the words "Nazi" or "House"? Yap. You do. The third pitiful attempt to do so - what a surprise - also didn't get you anywhere.
LOL @ the thirty-year-old Nazi using Nick Gillard as a source, something he used to scoff at doing, proving himself to not only be a thirty-year-old Nazi with no life, but a hypocrite as well. Might as well call him SS Captain Vice for his appalling lack of virtues.
And here we have a story of Gideon's famous "Nai Fohl myths", children. As you can see, Gideon desperately wants me to have generally scoffed at Nick Gillard as a source. And - like it's the case with all other Nai Fohl Myths that Uncle Gideon keeps ranting about - this also has never happened. Yes, Gideon. I refuted Nick Gillard as a source on ocassion. You remember that days, when he said that Cin Drallig could defeat everybody in the SW mythos, that Vaapad doesn't exist. But before you fill your entire pillow with tears, (and though I now you will come with the "YOU DON'T PICK YOUR SOURCES" again, let me change that statement:
"As we can all see in RotS, Anakin, without being in that perfect Dark Side controlling status, commonly refered to here as 'the z0ne' can't even take Obi-Wan Kenobi. Neither with a lightsaber, nor with force powers."
LOL @ the thirty-year-old Nazi being called a "Yoda fanboy" by his cabal of friends on the internet, calling me a Sidious fanboy, and then throwing a hissy fit and listing a bunch of pejoratives, never mind the fact that he himself has been called each one numerous times himself.
So far for the Gideon side of the story, which is only linked to reality by the fact that Gideon appears in both of them. Well. I make it especially easy for you, little one. "I was called Yoda fanboy" =/= "I am a Yoda fanboy" =/= "You did proof I'm a Yoda fanboy". 🙂
LOL @ the thirty-year-old Nazi not realizing that twelve seconds is practically an eternity for a clever, experienced warrior with Force enhanced reflexes in an attempt to provide cosmetics to Dooku's total screw up. Also LOL'ing at the fact that the same Nazi has yet to provide a valid excuse for Dooku's silence.
And now, Gideon is sharing all his experience as a trained combatant with us. So Gideon. How often, in all your years of being a famous lightsaber combatant, have you been in a fight where you simply underestimated an opponent (because he was inferior to you before) and then he suddenly used his Dark Side force power to surprise you? Oh what, Gideon? That has never happened, because you aren't a skilled lightsaber combatant, as we're debating a fictional issue here? My-oh-my.
Simply look at the fight between Sidious and the Jedi coming to arrest him. There are nine seconds passing from the point he pulls the lightsaber out and six seconds from the point he ignites it to the point where he kills his first opponent. So Gideon: If 6-9 seconds aren't enough for some of "the finest swordsmen the order has ever produced" to assume a defensive stance or react in any other way to a Sith Lord who comes flying at them with an ignited lightsaber in his hand - how can 12 seconds be eternity then for Dooku?
Oh right. Either those Jedi aren't thinking with superhuman speed, are plain and simply too stupid to react or - another suggestion - the fights we see aren't shown in "real time", which might be the most logical explanation, considering the usually move with speed "to fast for the eye to see", "lightning fast", "so fast that the movement is invisible" etc. pp. Gosh.
LOL @ the thirty-year-old Nazi making excuses for Dooku's lack of regard, precaution, and understanding of the dark side's effects on those who even briefly tap into its strength, even though Dooku was a Sith Lord for thirteen years.
Look. He still doesn't get it and still wants to argue with me. First read, then think and after that - if you're capable of crossing the personalized version of the Chinese wall, that the second step might be for you - post.
LOL @ the thirty-year-old Nazi not accepting that that rage became an integral part of Anakin's makeup. It wasn't just a "temporary" fix. Fighting with rage makes one an overwhelming opponent for the dark side; why would Palpatine be urging Anakin and Luke to use it if it was just temporary? He wants the strongest apprentice, as per Lucas's own words according to the commentary.
The fun factor really keeps raising. So now you're telling me, that just getting angry enough to go berserk (as Luke did in RotJ) is the same thing as utilizing you anger and hatred in a controlled manner to archieve certain goals. I want to get that straight: Luke "Baseball bat swinging" Skywalker, to you, is the exact same thing as Anakin in RotS while defeating Dooku? Ahahahaha!
On a side note: Despite of his permanent "uber DS skillz" he's not able to take out Obi-Wan Kenobi? I can almost smell all the more fun incoming here.
LOL @ the thirty-year-old Nazi slip further along down the path to total retardation by bringing up "the boyfriend" jokes that haven't been seen since Nai's grade school days.
Oh sorry, dude. That was the revenge for not inviting me to your coming-out-party. And of course you're "haha! Nazi!" is all the way more mature and funny. But really. All that little teenage anger is - well...it's delicious. It's like a little mini-meal between lunch and dinner. Quite frankly, it's all I can do not to grind pepper on your head.
He's being completely abandoned, Nai. He ****ed himself over and no one's going to save his ass.
You can go on with ignoring the circumstances until you get blue in the face, Gideon. It doesn't change them and neither does it change the fact that by ignoring them, you turn your personal interpretation into an even greater joke. And one has to say that this is an outrageous work, considering that you've - by now - already put Anakin in RotS to baseball-bat-action-RotJ-Luke level and turned some of "the finest swordsmen the Galaxy has ever seen" into mere jokes. Some more of that, and you'll probably manage to talk them all down to a level, where C-3PO walks in and mutilates them with a riding crop. With "laughable ease".
Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
You see, here's the difference. With OB1 - HE WAS IMMERSED IN THE DARKSIDE!!!!!!!!!!! With Dooku, which yielded a completely different outcome, he was not. Plus, OB1 and Anakin knew each other more intimately than Dooku ever could, so it would make sense for the fight to last longer, and with Anakin not thinking clearly, it was possible for OB1 to beat him. And I think Dooku would tire more quickly than OB1 in a lightsaber battle after OB1 defends all his attacks.
My God, Darth Subjekt. Let me try to make it very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very clear to you: The entire debate here is circles around the question if Anakin permanently recides in the very same state he was in at the point he beats Dooku. If that's not the case - and you claim here yourself that it is not - then we can't use that state he was in, as his "regular", "normal" or "any given time" state. Meaning: He just doesn't get into that very same state each and every time he ignites his lightsaber.
That was the entire point here. Okay?
And if you accept that premise, then it can very well be the case, that Dooku beats Anakin in 9 out of 10 lightsaber duels.
Did you see Sidious tell Dooku not to hurt/kill Anakin?[
Did I quote Lucas on how Dooku was attempting to convert Anakin, a comment given to the very moment where Dooku "taunts" him? Yes. The entire point here, once again explaining it for you, was that Dooku didn't went all out on Anakin throughout the entire duel. Going by the fact, that he still wants to convert Anakin during their saber-lock, the only time left for him trying all he can is the time from there to the second he loses his hands. Can you agree with that?
So one minute you're saying that Dooku taunted Anakin, then when it fits your "argument" he doesn't. Which is homo, I mean Nai?
Apparently you once more didn't get it. I was commenting on the fact that the action as descriped in the novel (which you used as basis for your argument) can't have happened in the time that does pass between the "taunt" and the end of the duel in the movie. Plain and simple.
What did GL say exactly that you're clinging so dearly to? Your whole argument of not being able to hurt Anakin is coming from the novel, which, as you succinctly put it, is below the movie.
No, Sir. My point is - still - that while wanting to convert Anakin (beginning of the fight until the "taunt" scene), Dooku couldn't have wanted to hurt or kill Anakin at the same time (thus not going all out against the young Jedi) - because that would, obviously, have been counter-productive to his "goal" which is to convert Anakin.
Originally posted by BorbaradYou can't speak for his state of mind every time he ignites his saber, nor can you prove his state of mind was different after "the taunt." And my other point was, if he was using the darkside, and was better than Dooku, who is always fueled by the darkside, then with them being on an even keel, Anakin is simply better. And i would put Anakin beating Dooku 9 out of 10 times.
My God, Darth Subjekt. Let me try to make it very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very clear to you: The entire debate here is circles around the question if Anakin permanently recides in the very same state he was in at the point he beats Dooku. If that's [b]not the case - and you claim here yourself that it is not - then we can't use that state he was in, as his "regular", "normal" or "any given time" state. Meaning: He just doesn't get into that very same state each and every time he ignites his lightsaber.That was the entire point here. Okay?
And if you accept that premise, then it can very well be the case, that Dooku beats Anakin in 9 out of 10 lightsaber duels.[/B]
Originally posted by BorbaradI can agree that he wanted to convert Anakin, but never at the expense of his own life. If he was that dense to allow that to happen, then he's obviously not where he needs to be in order to beat Anakin. And as the novel states, and there's nothing to indicate that this contradicts the movie, Anakin was holding back, i.e. not going all out on Dooku the entire time, either. So, what happened in the last 12 seconds, could have happened in the first 12 seconds if Anakin was going all out.
Did I quote Lucas on how Dooku was attempting to convert Anakin, a comment given to the very moment where Dooku "taunts" him? Yes. The entire point here, once again explaining it for you, was that Dooku didn't went all out on Anakin throughout the entire duel. Going by the fact, that he still wants to convert Anakin during their saber-lock, the only time left for him trying all he can is the time from there to the second he loses his hands. Can you agree with that?
Originally posted by BorbaradHow can be so sure? You can't use "normal human" standards to judge Jedi and Sith in a fictional realm.
Apparently you once more didn't get it. I was commenting on the fact that the action as descriped in the novel (which you used as basis for your argument) can't have happened in the time that does pass between the "taunt" and the end of the duel in the movie. Plain and simple.
Originally posted by BorbaradThat still doesn't prove that he could've beaten Anakin.
No, Sir. My point is - still - that while wanting to convert Anakin (beginning of the fight until the "taunt" scene), Dooku couldn't have wanted to hurt or kill Anakin at the same time (thus not going all out against the young Jedi) - because that would, obviously, have been counter-productive to his "goal" which is to convert Anakin.
If Dooku beats ROTS Anakin itd have to be early on in the fight. thatd be his best hope.
just as a matter of interest though Nick Gillard says Anakin beats Dooku by suckering him with his sword arm. he also says Dookus big weakness in that fight was that hes already beaten Anakin before so is quite confident he can do it again. so basically he was overconfident.