United States Presidential Election 2008 - Official Discussion Thread

Originally posted by SelinaAndBruce
I'd take the governor over the senator though. And honestly it's no more hypocritical than Obama claiming the biggest problems in Washington is old ideas and old politics and you don't need experience to be President and then turning around and picking Joe Biden

No there's a very clear and obvious difference.

Obama didn't need to reinforce the idea of change. That's something that most people (according to polls) are comfortable with about Obama, that he wants to bring about change. Biden's choice was to take some wind out of the experience argument. And the argument is, while Obama has the ideas for change, Biden has the experience to actually get it done.

McCain loses credibility on the experience card with his pick because, unfortunately, with McCain's age and history with cancer there is a very real chance that his VP may become president. So by picking someone with less experience than Obama, and saying that she's magically ready to be president, is obviously hypocritical. It takes the wind out of that argument pretty much completely. If a one year governor of Alaska is ready to be president, without even having run and been tested, then it becomes impossible to take the argument that a more qualified person, as Obama is, is not ready.

Originally posted by SelinaAndBruce
I'd take the governor over the senator though. And honestly it's no more hypocritical than Obama claiming the biggest problems in Washington is old ideas and old politics and you don't need experience to be President and then turning around and picking Joe Biden

Good point.

They've seemed to try to counter balance each others arguments (and contradict their own attacks on the other) with their VP picks.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
@XYZ

ROFL.

McCain is like Bush when it suits to bash him, but not like Bush when it comes to the states that he'd get.

I'm not saying that Obama wouldn't get Iowa, just that it would be hard and he's not up by much.

If McCain (and now Palin) do well in the debates and turn conservative voters into an energized base again, then they'd have a real shot at Iowa. (again, which went to Bush last time)

That's not Obama bashing, just objective reasoning.

Not hard, easy.

And Kentucky, West Virginia, Tennessee, Arkansas, Missouri, Louisiana, Ohio and Arizona went to Bill Clinton in 96, but Gore lost all of them.

Also, I knew McCain would pick a woman as soon as Hillary lost the nomination.

Originally posted by lord xyz

Also, I knew McCain would pick a woman as soon as Hillary lost the nomination.

I had a feeling he would too, and I can't decide if its a smart move or a sign of desperation: getting the women voters that turned their back on Obama. And since she's from AK, it will make the whole ANWR debate a lot more interesting.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
I had a feeling he would too, and I can't decide if its a smart move or a sign of desperation: getting the women voters that turned their back on Obama. And since she's from AK, it will make the whole ANWR debate a lot more interesting.

Originally posted by BackFire
No there's a very clear and obvious difference.

Obama didn't need to reinforce the idea of change. That's something that most people (according to polls) are comfortable with about Obama, that he wants to bring about change. Biden's choice was to take some wind out of the experience argument. And the argument is, while Obama has the ideas for change, Biden has the experience to actually get it done.

McCain loses credibility on the experience card with his pick because, unfortunately, with McCain's age and history with cancer there is a very real chance that his VP may become president. So by picking someone with less experience than Obama, and saying that she's magically ready to be president, is obviously hypocritical. It takes the wind out of that argument pretty much completely. If a one year governor of Alaska is ready to be president, without even having run and been tested, then it becomes impossible to take the argument that a more qualified person, as Obama is, is not ready.

I was actually a Hillary supporter who didn't want Obama to pick her but even I can see the obviousness in this move. And Palin being a governor to me makes her more qualified to be president than some guy who has been running for the presidency for most of the time he's been in the Senate.

And how is Obama gonna say o she's not experienced enough to be Vice President, but then claim that with no executive experience he is qualified to be President without looking stupid? If he really believed that then he'd just let Joe Biden be the President then since there's little question there about him being ready. Instead he's gonna complain that the person waiting in the wings doesn't have enough experience? LOL

Originally posted by SelinaAndBruce
McCain isn't trying to get the Hillary supporters. Palin is way too conservative and far too different from Hillary than that. He might capture some of the independents but the hard core Hill supporters believe in completely different things than Palin. Instead this just re highlights the rift in the party. He's stolen the focus off of Obama with this news story and reminded the Democrats that he overlooked Hillary and look, John McCain picked a woman. It's an in your face for sure.

Let's be honest; it wasn't a pure coincidence that picked a woman. This is a response to Obama not picking Hillary. The hardcore Hill supporters may not vote for him, but ones who just want to see a woman in the White House will.

The other advantage to having Gov. Palin has his veep is that it would give him a direct hand in AK and more sway when it comes to drilling.

^Two birds, one stone.

Originally posted by SelinaAndBruce
But if Obama was so ready, why did he pick Joe Biden to make up for his utter lack of foreign policy experience? Obama had already killed his own credibility with that choice. What McCain has done in picking Palin is re open the wound over the fact that Obama copped out and didn't pick Hillary.

I was actually a Hillary supporter who didn't want Obama to pick her but even I can see the obviousness in this move. And Palin being a governor to me makes her more qualified to be president than some guy who has been running for the presidency for most of the time he's been in the Senate.

And how is Obama gonna say o she's not experienced enough to be Vice President, but then claim that with no executive experience he is qualified to be President without looking stupid? If he really believed that then he'd just let Joe Biden be the President then since there's little question there about him being ready. Instead he's gonna complain that the person waiting in the wings doesn't have enough experience? LOL

Well, the McCain crowd can't really knock Obama for inexperienced anymore, because look at McCain's runningmate.

Originally posted by SelinaAndBruce
But if Obama was so ready, why did he pick Joe Biden to make up for his utter lack of foreign policy experience? Obama had already killed his own credibility with that choice. What McCain has done in picking Palin is re open the wound over the fact that Obama copped out and didn't pick Hillary.

I was actually a Hillary supporter who didn't want Obama to pick her but even I can see the obviousness in this move. And Palin being a governor to me makes her more qualified to be president than some guy who has been running for the presidency for most of the time he's been in the Senate.

And how is Obama gonna say o she's not experienced enough to be Vice President, but then claim that with no executive experience he is qualified to be President without looking stupid? If he really believed that then he'd just let Joe Biden be the President then since there's little question there about him being ready. Instead he's gonna complain that the person waiting in the wings doesn't have enough experience? LOL

Running for the president, controlling a campaign, seeing him in debates and how he runs his campaign actually matters in regards to experience. It shows how he runs and manages something. It gives Obama some national experience, something Palin does not have. At least people know who Obama is, and have known him for some time now, who knows who Palin is, really?

And few would argue that Biden's choice was obviously to make up for lack of foreign policy credibility. But that's not the only experience or knowledge that matters. McCain has weaknesses as well, namely the Economy, and really everything that isn't foreign policy.

And Obama shouldn't point out that she lacks experience, they should wait for McCain and republicans to point out that he lacks experience, and then respond by saying that that's hypocritical since he chose someone with less experience than him to be president should anything happen to McCain. It really does take that issue off the table for McCain, he no longer has any credibility, since he did choose someone as vice president with less experience than Obama.

Also, it's crystal clear why McCain made this choice, to say that it wasn't to pander to Hillary voters is to be blind. If it wasn't to pander to Hillary voters then why did she during her speech mention Hillary and the 18 million cracks in the glass ceiling. I think any clear thinking person would recognize that she was only chosen in hopes that Hillary voters are stupid enough to simply vote for someone who has the same parts as them. I mean, what other reasons would she be picked? What is her area of expertise that she brings to the ticket?

I stick by my stance. I see fail written all over this. 🙁

He should've picked Romney or Huckabee out of all the potentials.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
I stick by my stance. I see fail written all over this. 🙁

He should've picked Romney or Huckabee out of all the potentials.

The Evangelicals love Huckabee and Jindal, but picking Romney would be political suicide.

I agree with Sith.

Or at least Jindal if he wanted a "wow" candidate.

This pick seems desperate. And I think it's already backfiring. My mom, who was a Hillary supporter, thinks this is really insulting that McCain is trying to manipulate her voters by just picking someone with a vagina, thinking that that's all that Hillary voters care about.

At least Obama's pick was someone who would actually help Obama lead the country, help him govern. McCain's pick is to simply try and help him get some votes.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
The Evangelicals love Huckabee and Jindal, but picking Romney would be political suicide.

Well yes and no. Romney's a mormon and they wouldn't be comfortable with that (as an evangelical working in a church, I've got some small insight here), but they'd pick him and his pro-life, pro-family policies on a ticket with McCain before letting Obama and Biden take the white house. They wouldn't stay home, despite reports on MSNBC that they would.

Romney would've helped with independents concerned with the economy who might've been leaning McCain anyway, and he would've given the campaign a good shot at Michigan, which Obama currently has by 5 points. (3, in the margin of error)

I wanted Huckabee, who would energize the evangelicals like crazy, has huge support in the south and won some primary states and is liked (along with Ron Paul) by younger conservatives.

He's funny, personable, and would've gotten some more cool Chuck Norris comercials.

Heck, even though he was just a gov., he has more experience than Palin.

Huck probably wouldn't have gotten any independents though, and it'd be the same old liberal dems v.s. conservative repubs. (which I think the conservatives would win, but barely)

I don't think Palin is going to help him much.

Who you voting for Mota?

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
I had a feeling he would too, and I can't decide if its a smart move or a sign of desperation: getting the women voters that turned their back on Obama. And since she's from AK, it will make the whole ANWR debate a lot more interesting.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
I stick by my stance. I see fail written all over this. 🙁

He should've picked Romney or Huckabee out of all the potentials.

Originally posted by BackFire

At least Obama's pick was someone who would actually help Obama lead the country, help him govern. McCain's pick is to simply try and help him get some votes.

Some one is in the tank for Obama...

They both picked candidates to make them look better and as responses. McCain has a ton of experience, Obama picks Biden. Obama didn't pick a woman runningmate, McCain swoops like a vulture and capitalizes.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Some one is in the tank for Obama...

They both picked candidates to make them look better and as responses. McCain has a ton of experience, Obama picks Biden. Obama didn't pick a woman runningmate, McCain swoops like a vulture and capitalizes.

Well of course they both picked candidates that they think would help them win in some way. The difference is that that's not ALL Biden will do, he'd actually be helpful to Obama in governing. How would Palin help McCain at all? What weakness does she alleviate?

Has nothing to do with being in the tank, just simple logic.

She might energize some conservatives/evangelicals that were wary of McCain and maybe some of the Christian soccer moms who were going to vote for Obama because they hate the war.

She'll get very little of the Hillary supporters.

Just a ploy to win the election I'm afraid.

Originally posted by sithsaber408

I don't think Palin is going to help him much.

Who you voting for Mota?

McCain, regardless of who his veep turned out to be.

If he gets it, Palin will have 2 duties: tapping ANWR and picking nice clothes for when she has to sit behind him during the State of the Union.

Exactly my point, Sith. She's there to get votes and ONLY get votes.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
McCain, regardless of who his veep turned out to be.

If he gets it, Palin will have 2 duties: tapping ANWR and picking nice clothes for when she has to sit behind him during the State of the Union.

😂

Yeah, I think that's about where I'm at too.

Originally posted by BackFire
Exactly my point, Sith. She's there to get votes and ONLY get votes.

Oh well, at least now I can jerk off watching the VP debate.