Originally posted by h1a8
Also matter manipulation doesn't mean that one can turn air into adamantium. It would take a large portion of the Earth's atmosphere to become just 1lb of adamantium. And energy cannot be created nor destroyed. A penny has the energy to blow up a state (or several states). That means that one would need the energy of a super megaton bomb just to create a mass of a penny. Also just because someone can manipulate matter doesn't mean that they can do it absolutely. For example, me turning hydrogen to helium doesn't mean I can turn hydrogen to Iron.
Aren't you the one who said that magic needs no explanation? So what's with all of this?? 😛
Destroyer = Magical Armor powered by Magical means and performing magical feats... helllooooo!
A better argument would have been to request feats wherein the destroyer showed the level of matter manipulation that allows it to create a material like adamantium.
Originally posted by Space M ummy
Remember classic juggs was beaten senseless and KOed by [b]Nimrod. the destroyer would have a field day with him. I mean, matter manipulation? juggs would find himself stuck in a block of adamantium faster than he could think.Destroyer 10/10, even without the BFR. [/B]
Juggernaut was not beaten senseless by Nimrod. NR used high frequency sonics on him that disoriented him, not KO him. And this was after NR was able to get his helmet off.
the destroyer hasnt show the physical strength to remove juggernaut any more than juggernaut has shown to be able to remove the destroyer. that could go 50/50
the only wave of magical energy that has affected juggernaut was thors godblast. it stopped his forward momentum. but thats it. in theory the destroyer could do the same (assuming his dissentigration beam has magical properties to it, instead of just being physical). even if it did "disentigrate" juggernaut, it doesnt mean he wouldnt instantly heal or reform after the attack. the destroyer has NO on panel showings to assume it could turn anything into adamantium and encase juggernaut.
the only way either of them is going to win is by simply putting the highest showing of one vs the other.
win for the destroyer: 2000ft tall version that stood against the celestials vs normal rampaging juggernaut
win for juggernaut: 2000ft tall version that literally smashed reality. (he probably wasnt 2000 ft tall, but he was big lol) vs 1 entity controling the destroyer.
Originally posted by KillAll
the destroyer hasnt show the physical strength to remove juggernaut any more than juggernaut has shown to be able to remove the destroyer. that could go 50/50the only wave of magical energy that has affected juggernaut was thors godblast. it stopped his forward momentum. but thats it. in theory the destroyer could do the same (assuming his dissentigration beam has magical properties to it, instead of just being physical). even if it did "disentigrate" juggernaut, it doesnt mean he wouldnt instantly heal or reform after the attack. the destroyer has NO on panel showings to assume it could turn anything into adamantium and encase juggernaut.
the only way either of them is going to win is by simply putting the highest showing of one vs the other.
win for the destroyer: 2000ft tall version that stood against the celestials vs normal rampaging juggernaut
win for juggernaut: 2000ft tall version that literally smashed reality. (he probably wasnt 2000 ft tall, but he was big lol) vs 1 entity controling the destroyer.
Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
I think it depends on the entity. The evil spirit boosted Juggernaut pretty high but I'm sure an Odin powered Destroyer, which may or may not be this one, would be quite a force to be reckoned with.
the evil spirt controlled the juggernaut power. it did not boost it. no on panel evidence to suggst that.
Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
Juggernaut was not beaten senseless by Nimrod. NR used high frequency sonics on him that disoriented him, not KO him. And this was after NR was able to get his helmet off.
The helmet has been taken off before numerous times due to Juggernaut's magical weakness.
Longshot's knives weakened the seals, allowing rogue to pull it off. the explanation was that longshot was from a dimension of magic + science, and juggs has a magical vulnerability.
Thunderstrike using the bloodaxe took it off in one hit.
Sort of related: shatterstar managed to go through whatever force fields juggs has and made him bleed for the exact same reason longshot did. "my swords were forged in a dimension of magic and science." Clearly not PIS here, this happened three separate times with three separate characters.
The destroyer, as a magical weapon/entity outclasses all three of those cases by an order of magnitude. That helmet may as well not even be there. A few quick strikes and those seals are F-I-N-I-S-H-E-D.
and to the genius who said "no enough matter to turn air into adamantium blah blah etc" the destroyer is a walking magical condiut. It can channel sufficient raw magical energies (presumably from wherever odin gets it from) to shatter mjolnir out of thin air, which if you want to use scientific rules, it could easily convert to whatever matter it chooses at it's leisure without creating or destroying anything.
nice try though.
Juggs is beaten to a pulp 10/10.
Originally posted by Space M ummy
The helmet has been taken off before numerous times due to Juggernaut's magical weakness.Longshot's knives weakened the seals, allowing rogue to pull it off. the explanation was that longshot was from a dimension of magic + science, and juggs has a magical vulnerability.
Thunderstrike using the bloodaxe took it off in one hit.
Sort of related: shatterstar managed to go through whatever force fields juggs has and made him bleed for the exact same reason longshot did. "my swords were forged in a dimension of magic and science." Clearly not PIS here, this happened three separate times with three separate characters.
The destroyer, as a magical weapon/entity outclasses all three of those cases by an order of magnitude. That helmet may as well not even be there. A few quick strikes and those seals are F-I-N-I-S-H-E-D.
and to the genius who said "no enough matter to turn air into adamantium blah blah etc" the destroyer is a walking magical condiut. It can channel sufficient raw magical energies (presumably from wherever odin gets it from) to shatter mjolnir out of thin air, which if you want to use scientific rules, it could easily convert to whatever matter it chooses at it's leisure without creating or destroying anything.
nice try though.
Juggs is beaten to a pulp 10/10.
Originally posted by LDHZenkai
Juggs does have a weakness to magic...but he did get burnt to nothing but bones from some magic guy and still came back and beat him down just with his skeleton
that fight was a little odd since it was outside of our dimension, in the realm of dreams or something. (D'spayre? Nightmare? one of the two.)
I'm not entirely convinced had that happened in 616 that juggs could survive something like that. interesting he was also still wearing his helmet (?) when that happened.
mid level psionics (classic psylocke, for instance) have KO'ed him but demons who control their own realms can't? ok...
Age Of Apocalypse Juggernaut (who had the same origins, but an alternate timeline) was killed by a brain aneurysm. I'm willing to bet jugg's true durability is somewhere in between. If you can shatter enchanted uru, you can PROBABLY shatter jugg's skull just as easily sans helmet.
and remember, a defeat is just a KO/incapacitation. If juggs heals later after being KTFO, it's still a loss.
Originally posted by Space M ummy
that fight was a little odd since it was outside of our dimension, in the realm of dreams or something. (D'spayre? Nightmare? one of the two.)
I'm not entirely convinced had that happened in 616 that juggs could survive something like that. interesting he was also still wearing his helmet (?) when that happened.mid level psionics (classic psylocke, for instance) have KO'ed him but demons who control their own realms can't? ok...
Age Of Apocalypse Juggernaut (who had the same origins, but an alternate timeline) was killed by a brain aneurysm. I'm willing to bet jugg's true durability is somewhere in between. If you can shatter enchanted uru, you can PROBABLY shatter jugg's skull just as easily sans helmet.
and remember, a defeat is just a KO/incapacitation. If juggs heals later after being KTFO, it's still a loss.
classic thor could not take out the destroyer, on top of that it would shitstomp him whenever they fought.
classic thor has figured out how to end a stalemate with classic juggs by de-powering him (magic negating vortex), then beating him around seemingly to a potential juggy loss. note, thor still had his 60 limit back then, without that he would have ko'd juggs imo
however, the dread destroyer has no limits to it's ability to block juggernaut's magic with a field, and it's strength/durability is greater than thor's.
even though it's ABC, a common denominator (thor) is useful in this instance.
Originally posted by Space M ummy
that fight was a little odd since it was outside of our dimension, in the realm of dreams or something. (D'spayre? Nightmare? one of the two.)
I'm not entirely convinced had that happened in 616 that juggs could survive something like that. interesting he was also still wearing his helmet (?) when that happened.mid level psionics (classic psylocke, for instance) have KO'ed him but demons who control their own realms can't? ok...
Age Of Apocalypse Juggernaut (who had the same origins, but an alternate timeline) was killed by a brain aneurysm. I'm willing to bet jugg's true durability is somewhere in between. If you can shatter enchanted uru, you can PROBABLY shatter jugg's skull just as easily sans helmet.
and remember, a defeat is just a KO/incapacitation. If juggs heals later after being KTFO, it's still a loss.
It was D'Spayre