NJO Luke runs the gauntlet (Saber Battle)
The force can only be used to enhance ones ability with the saber or give them an advantage.
I.e. Force abilities that enhance ones speed, agility, or enable them to jump far distances are allowed.
Force abilities that have nothing to do with a enhancing a users ability with a saber is not allowed.
Line up is as follows:
Ulic
Exar Kun
Dooku
Anakin
Mace
Yoda
DE Sidious
How far does Luke go?
Well, I believe that he should probably take out Ulic and Exar Kun with relative ease. Sure, they're both good, but they don't have anything to put them on a level with Luke. In his fight with Dooku, Luke takes him with some difficulty. He'll probably start to have a really tough time when fighting Anakin, the 'strongest and fastest Jedi' of his generation- capable of tooling Dooku when at full power, apparently decimate Cin Drallig one-handed (Drallig, the Temple's battlemaster, a master of all forms save for Vaapad/Juyo), and various other things such as defeating Ventress, an exceptional Dark Jedi, when pissed off.
Mace? I think that he is actually weaker than Anakin when his Vaapad doesn't come into play. Sure, with it, he can beat Anakin, but without it, he's an exceptionally fast and deadly Jedi- but lacking his foremost advantage, seeing as Luke is not a dark sider. Even his other advantage, Shatterpoint, is countered by the fact that Luke also has it.
Yoda will be where Luke will REALLY have to work for the win, if he even does win. Yoda is described as a 'whirlwind of destruction', the 'most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known'- he is amazingly fast, and the AotC novel describes his strength as forcing Dooku to use two hands to block Yoda's attacks, when Dooku's style, Makashi, utilizes one-handed combat.
Which leaves us at DE Sidious. I hardly believe that even at full power Luke will be able to WTFpwn Sidious in pure saber combat. This Sidious is the one who moves fast enough to not even be seen by Leia, a force sensitive with incredible force attunement, in combat, tooled and disarmed DE Luke (Luke could only match him when he was empowered by external means, and even then, Sidious refers to the duel as a 'game', implying he wasn't even taking it seriously), decimate three of the Order's greatest swordsman- Agen Kolar is even referred to be one of the greatest bladesbeings in the Jedi Order's history in the RotS novel- nearly overwhelm Mace Windu, and stalemate Yoda in saber combat. Aside from the first feat, all of those feats are actually before his Dark Empire incarnation, where he is stronger, more skilled, and faster than his original self. A fatigued Luke can't take him.
Originally posted by Taven
Yeah, that's pretty much what you said about an hour ago; no further input necessary.By the way, he still falls at Ulic.
I do not know who you are referring to but is there anyone on the list that Luke would win against in your opinion? I am waiting for people to start replying to your statement.
Originally posted by Taven
Definitely, the order's pretty misplaced actually, what it should appear as would be:Anakin
Dooku
Mace
Yoda
DE Sidious
Ulic
Exar KunAnd he still falls at Ulic.
Ok now I see. Any reason as why Exar Kun is the top dog? I thought the PT era was the best in terms of saber combat.
The order I chose does not represent who I feel is better in saber combat. It is more is line with what combo I felt would make things more difficult for Luke.
Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Well, I believe that he should probably take out Ulic and Exar Kun with relative ease. Sure, they're both good, but they don't have anything to put them on a level with Luke. In his fight with Dooku, Luke takes him with some difficulty. He'll probably start to have a really tough time when fighting Anakin, the 'strongest and fastest Jedi' of his generation- capable of tooling Dooku when at full power, apparently decimate Cin Drallig one-handed (Drallig, the Temple's battlemaster, a master of all forms save for Vaapad/Juyo), and various other things such as defeating Ventress, an exceptional Dark Jedi, when pissed off.Mace? I think that he is actually weaker than Anakin when his Vaapad doesn't come into play. Sure, with it, he can beat Anakin, but without it, he's an exceptionally fast and deadly Jedi- but lacking his foremost advantage, seeing as Luke is not a dark sider. Even his other advantage, Shatterpoint, is countered by the fact that Luke also has it.
Yoda will be where Luke will REALLY have to work for the win, if he even does win. Yoda is described as a 'whirlwind of destruction', the 'most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known'- he is amazingly fast, and the AotC novel describes his strength as forcing Dooku to use two hands to block Yoda's attacks, when Dooku's style, Makashi, utilizes one-handed combat.
Which leaves us at DE Sidious. I hardly believe that even at full power Luke will be able to WTFpwn Sidious in pure saber combat. This Sidious is the one who moves fast enough to not even be seen by Leia, a force sensitive with incredible force attunement, in combat, tooled and disarmed DE Luke (Luke could only match him when he was empowered by external means, and even then, Sidious refers to the duel as a 'game', implying he wasn't even taking it seriously), decimate three of the Order's greatest swordsman- Agen Kolar is even referred to be one of the greatest bladesbeings in the Jedi Order's history in the RotS novel- nearly overwhelm Mace Windu, and stalemate Yoda in saber combat. Aside from the first feat, all of those feats are actually before his Dark Empire incarnation, where he is stronger, more skilled, and faster than his original self. A fatigued Luke can't take him.
Exar Kun seems like a saber beast when I read up on him. How is it that Luke takes him so easily?
This is from Wookieepedia: Do known how much truth is mention -
Exar Kun was extremely skilled in the use of lightsabers, specializing in double-bladed lightsaber combat and the Jar'Kai style of fighting, though he more frequently used the former.[3]Kun's lightsaber, unlike nearly all Sith lightsabers that followed it, was blue. He could also independently change the length and strength of the blades, causing confusion and over/under-compensation in his combat opponents, giving him a strong advantage in his lightsaber fighting.
Well, I believe that he should probably take out Ulic and Exar Kun with relative ease. Sure, they're both good, but they don't have anything to put them on a level with Luke.
Technically? Either, by virtue of existing evidence, are his superior by miles.
Exar Kun was declared Vodo Siosk Bass's greatest student in 600 years of training his Order in saber combat, possessed the technical ingenuity required in creating a form of combat for a weapon he'd never before heard of, and possesses an astronomically enormous advantage in the sense that the style died with him, and as such would be completely alien to Luke as a lightsaber combatant.
Ulic Qel Droma, when a decade out of practise with a lightsaber, physically past his prime, cut off from the Force (and as such lacking the many advantages that the Force provides (physical enhancements, greater reaction speed, precognition) and being forced to rely on his natural human senses when in the past he would have always relied on his ability to sense his surroundings with the Force), and holding back, was capable of stalemating an extremely formidable darkside driven Jedi in a saber duel, a Jedi so formidable as a combatant in fact, that previously she had been capable of slaughtering multiple Massassi Warriors (who were Force Sensitive alchemical creations that were directly stated to be capable of using the darkside with skill and precision and were created to combat Jedi and guard Sadow's secrets) with her bare hands in seconds. All of that, while having been forced to rely on one quality: his natural grasp of the lightsaber, and that alone.
For any non-Force Sensitive to be able to compete with a Force sensitive in direct combat is a monumental achievement, and even then, it would usually only be achieved by relying on factors such as technology, or the element of surprise, physical superiority, or even a natural trait they possess as being one of their species. Ulic had none of that; he wasn't even in physical shape or in practise with his weapon, and he wasn't fighting to kill either, and as established, Sylar wasn't just your average Jedi, she was an elite one. Quite frankly, the showing makes Ulic one of the most naturally gifted Lightsaber Users there is, and it can't even be put into words how ridiculously he outclasses Luke in the department.
They both do in fact; Luke hasn't ever given us real reason to assume that he was particularly skilled with a lightsaber, so based on what we know, he's outclassed.
Now that being said, I'm not going to deny that Luke's definitely superior to the two of these when it comes to force prowess, by no small margin in fact, and I'll be the first to claim that Force prowess makes miles more of a difference than technical ability when it comes to saber combat. However, Exar and Ulic aren't exactly slouches in that department either.
Ulic was already capable of blasting back two elite Jedi (his brother Cay and friend Tott) about thirty feat without any real difficulty whatsoever when not at his full level of power, and later, when he gains his Sith amulet, he skyrockets in power, to the point where he was described as rippling in darkside energy.
Exar Kun, as you know, was capable of absolutely decimating skilled darkside using Massassi Warriors with his amulet, was capable of freezing tens of thousands of beings in place, instantly, with absolute ease, and later, able to drain the Force from an entire race (in some hours).
Neither of them are that far below Luke in Force ability based on what we know, yet absolutely outclass him in technical ability.
With Ulic for instance, if he can perform like he did against someone like Sylar without even a connection to the Force as well as under all the conditions I listed, I doubt the superiority Luke possesses in Force ability will make that much of a difference against a powerful Force Sensitive, darkside driven, amulet wielding, physically in shape, Master Swordsman, going for the kill, in practise Ulic Qel Droma. And Exar of course was already capable of competing with Ulic before he even created his new, preferred style, which Luke would be completely unprepared against.
Now I'm not saying it won't be close, but either Ulic or Exar would take Luke in a lightsaber battle, and not a single person here has provided an argument to the contrary.
Originally posted by Taven
Technically? Either, by virtue of existing evidence, are his superior by miles.Exar Kun was declared Vodo Siosk Bass's greatest student in 600 years of training his Order in saber combat, possessed the technical ingenuity required in creating a form of combat for a weapon he'd never before heard of, and possesses an astronomically enormous advantage in the sense that the style died with him, and as such would be completely alien to Luke as a lightsaber combatant.
Ulic Qel Droma, when a decade out of practise with a lightsaber, physically past his prime, cut off from the Force (and as such lacking the many advantages that the Force provides (physical enhancements, greater reaction speed, precognition) and being forced to rely on his natural human senses when in the past he would have always relied on his ability to sense his surroundings with the Force), and holding back, was capable of stalemating an extremely formidable darkside driven Jedi in a saber duel, a Jedi so formidable as a combatant in fact, that previously she had been capable of slaughtering multiple Massassi Warriors (who were Force Sensitive alchemical creations that were directly stated to be capable of using the darkside with skill and precision and were created to combat Jedi and guard Sadow's secrets) with her bare hands in seconds. All of that, while having been forced to rely on one quality: his natural grasp of the lightsaber, and that alone.
For any non-Force Sensitive to be able to compete with a Force sensitive in direct combat is a monumental achievement, and even then, it would usually only be achieved by relying on factors such as technology, or the element of surprise, physical superiority, or even a natural trait they possess as being one of their species. Ulic had none of that; he wasn't even in physical shape or in practise with his weapon, and he wasn't fighting to kill either, and as established, Sylar wasn't just your average Jedi, she was an elite one. Quite frankly, the showing makes Ulic one of the most naturally gifted Lightsaber Users there is, and it can't even be put into words how ridiculously he outclasses Luke in the department.
They both do in fact; Luke hasn't ever given us real reason to assume that he was particularly skilled with a lightsaber, so based on what we know, he's outclassed.
Now that being said, I'm not going to deny that Luke's definitely superior to the two of these when it comes to force prowess, by no small margin in fact, and I'll be the first to claim that Force prowess makes miles more of a difference than technical ability when it comes to saber combat. However, Exar and Ulic aren't exactly slouches in that department either.
Ulic was already capable of blasting back two elite Jedi (his brother Cay and friend Tott) about thirty feat without any real difficulty whatsoever when not at his full level of power, and later, when he gains his Sith amulet, he skyrockets in power, to the point where he was described as rippling in darkside energy.
Exar Kun, as you know, was capable of absolutely decimating skilled darkside using Massassi Warriors with his amulet, was capable of freezing tens of thousands of beings in place, instantly, with absolute ease, and later, able to drain the Force from an entire race (in some hours).
Neither of them are that far below Luke in Force ability based on what we know, yet absolutely outclass him in technical ability.
With Ulic for instance, if he can perform like he did against someone like Sylar without even a connection to the Force as well as under all the conditions I listed, I doubt the superiority Luke possesses in Force ability will make that much of a difference against a powerful Force Sensitive, darkside driven, amulet wielding, physically in shape, Master Swordsman, going for the kill, in practise Ulic Qel Droma. And Exar of course was already capable of competing with Ulic before he even created his new, preferred style, which Luke would be completely unprepared against.
Now I'm not saying it won't be close, but either Ulic or Exar would take Luke in a lightsaber battle, and not a single person here has provided an argument to the contrary.
I can see Luke potentially falling around Anakin or Mace depending how much difficulty he has with Ulic,Kun and Dooku, none of them are exactly push overs but I don't see him making it past a full rested Yoda(if he even makes it that far) and if he can get to Sidious he falls pretty easily.
I am a little surprise that the account has been banned already. Considering he didn't just make it today.
Originally posted by Kotor3
Exar Kun seems like a saber beast when I read up on him. How is it that Luke takes him so easily?This is from Wookieepedia: Do known how much truth is mention -
Exar Kun was extremely skilled in the use of lightsabers, specializing in double-bladed lightsaber combat and the Jar'Kai style of fighting, though he more frequently used the former.[3]Kun's lightsaber, unlike nearly all Sith lightsabers that followed it, was blue. He could also independently change the length and strength of the blades, causing confusion and over/under-compensation in his combat opponents, giving him a strong advantage in his lightsaber fighting.
Wiki is not canonical, and tends to overblow everyone's prowess with a lightsaber; Kun has done absolutely nothing than "ZOMG he invented a new style!!!!" to put him on a level of even the PT's greats. He's good in the force, but his lightsaber prowess isn't -that- incredible. He's a skilled lightsaber user- but he's got nothing on Luke.
Don't trust "Taven", either. He's Nebaris, a notorious sock who was banned dozens of times and crazy ancient sith/Bane fanboy. Just because he says Ulic > DE Sidious doesn't make it true.
And nah, Lightsnake. I didn't miss him. I actually thought he was gone for a while...
Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Wiki is not canonical, and tends to overblow everyone's prowess with a lightsaber; Kun has done absolutely nothing than "ZOMG he invented a new style!!!!" to put him on a level of even the PT's greats. He's good in the force, but his lightsaber prowess isn't -that- incredible. He's a skilled lightsaber user- but he's got nothing on Luke.Don't trust "Taven", either. He's Nebaris, a notorious sock who was banned dozens of times and crazy ancient sith/Bane fanboy. Just because he says Ulic > DE Sidious doesn't make it true.
And nah, Lightsnake. I didn't miss him. I actually thought he was gone for a while...
I am learning. When it comes to Dooku can someone name some impressive feats of his and please do not mention Yoda who did not want to harm him and Mace who did master his saber style at the time of their duel.
Besides a quote that says he was skilled and his fight with Obi Wan and Anakin, I do not see how Dooku is so impressive with the saber.
Originally posted by Kotor3
I am learning. When it comes to Dooku can someone name some impressive feats of his and please do not mention Yoda who did not want to harm him and Mace who did master his saber style at the time of their duel.Besides a quote that says he was skilled and his fight with Obi Wan and Anakin, I do not see how Dooku is so impressive with the saber.
Sure. For starters, the RotS novel called him one of the greatest Jedi in the Order's history, and an even superior Lord of the Sith; he was the complete master of Makashi, a form specially created for saber-to-saber dueling. He was able to tool Asajj Ventress, an impressive Dark Jedi, in lightsaber combat (while logically not trying to kill her). In the time of the Clone Wars, Yoda said that only he and Mace could be a match for him on equal ground; he also, despite being fatigued (fighting three formidable Jedi, one after the other) defeated both Sora Bulq and Tholme, two prominent Jedi Masters. He could also defeat General Grievous in lightsaber combat- General Grievous, a being who killed lots, and lots of Jedi, caused Mace to take him very seriously (even though Grievous was rooted to one location, while Mace had free movement), and could utilize up to 20 strikes per second. He is constantly referred to as a 'legendary duelist'.
Yeah, he's exceptional. Damned exceptional.