Yes that is all good he was a master swordsman. Maybe I am looking for feats such as mention about Luke. I see nothing there that directly suggest that Dooku would definitely defeat someone like Exar Kun in saber combat. It seems more of a matter of opinion.
Lightsnake to belittle Ulic feat of defending against a force user in saber combat is ridiculous. While he might not be on Luke’s level there is reason to belittle that feat of Ulic, it speaks volumes for his saber skills.
General Grievous for the force users’ mention in this thread is no match for them and should not be mention. If it came to pure saber skills without use of the force to enhance your abilities than Grievous could be mention.
Asajj Ventress while impressive I do not see how she is a match for anyone mention on this thread.
That being said I am still not impress with Dooku's resume even though I do fully agree that he is a great swordsman.
Originally posted by Kotor3
Yes that is all good he was a master swordsman. Maybe I am looking for feats such as mention about Luke. I see nothing there that directly suggest that Dooku would definitely defeat someone like Exar Kun in saber combat. It seems more of a matter of opinion.Lightsnake to belittle Ulic feat of defending against a force user in saber combat is ridiculous. While he might not be on Luke’s level there is reason to belittle that feat of Ulic, it speaks volumes for his saber skills.
Dooku is at the LEAST, on par with Exar in combat. The people Dooku tends to go against are people with some actual backing to them, unlike Exar sans Ulic.
General Grievous for the force users’ mention in this thread is no match for them and should not be mention. If it came to pure saber skills without use of the force to enhance your abilities than Grievous could be mention.Asajj Ventress while impressive I do not see how she is a match for anyone mention on this thread.
That being said I am still not impress with Dooku's resume even though I do fully agree that he is a great swordsman.
I never, EVER said that Dooku would be able to defeat Luke, or even give him a tough time. I gave you feats and quotes. Now, tell me: What does Exar Kun have over that?
General Grievous overwhelmed Obi-Wan's supposedly impenetrable defense with his 20 strikes per second, causing Obi-Wan to resort to a quick incapacitation move rather than try to block his strikes; he easily defeated Jedi Council Members such as Adi Gallia, for instance, and managed to combat 5 Jedi- two of them council members, nontheless- and pwn them. These Jedi include Shaak Ti, renowned as an amazing swordsman and called "the most cunning Jedi I ever met" by Obi-Wan Kenobi, and Ki-Adi-Mundi. And Grievous defeated them all without ever truly being in danger. Grievous also defeated Durge, an immortal bounty hunter, and Asajj Ventress, an impressive dark warrior simultaneously. He also fought Mace Windu in saber combat and managed to hold his own, despite being rooted to a single location on a moving vehicle, while Mace was able to move freely. Now, explain why do you think he won't be capable of taking down the likes Kun in pure saber combat.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Sure. That he blocks maybe two strikes from a mindless berserker and spends the vast majority of the fight running away? He doesn't stand and fight her, not even CLOSE.Dooku is at the LEAST, on par with Exar in combat. The people Dooku tends to go against are people with some actual backing to them, unlike Exar sans Ulic.
If you're not impressed by Dooku's resume but you're impressed by parrying a few strikes from a mindless Jedi of mediocre skill from the start...that's odd.
You are missing my point Lightsnake, whatever you say about the force user being mindless or whatever the case they were a force user and Ulic was not at the time. Explain how that is not impressive? Can you name ones who would do the same. To block one or two attacks is that not impressive? Why would it be mention in the story if it was not a mark or testament as to how skill Ulic was.
I recognize Dooku as a great swordsman but tell me who on this thread could not defeat Grievous or Ventress?
Dooku may have more combat feats mention in history or story line but they are not feats that make his so much better than Ulic or Exar Kun. Yoda and Mace may be a different story.
Originally posted by Master Crimzon
I never, EVER said that Dooku would be able to defeat Luke, or even give him a tough time. I gave you feats and quotes. Now, tell me: What does Exar Kun have over that?General Grievous overwhelmed Obi-Wan's supposedly impenetrable defense with his 20 strikes per second, causing Obi-Wan to resort to a quick incapacitation move rather than try to block his strikes; he easily defeated Jedi Council Members such as Adi Gallia, for instance, and managed to combat 5 Jedi- two of them council members, nontheless- and pwn them. These Jedi include Shaak Ti, renowned as an amazing swordsman and called "the most cunning Jedi I ever met" by Obi-Wan Kenobi, and Ki-Adi-Mundi. And Grievous defeated them all without ever truly being in danger. Grievous also defeated Durge, an immortal bounty hunter, and Asajj Ventress, an impressive dark warrior simultaneously. He also fought Mace Windu in saber combat and managed to hold his own, despite being rooted to a single location on a moving vehicle, while Mace was able to move freely. Now, explain why do you think he won't be capable of taking down the likes Kun in pure saber combat.
Besides Mace are you stating that the other force users mention in your post are on Kun's level and above? I need to have that clarified.
Originally posted by Kotor3
You are missing my point Lightsnake, whatever you say about the force user being mindless or whatever the case they were a force user and Ulic was not at the time. Explain how that is not impressive?
By this logic, Jango is one of the best fighters ever. Nevermind Trebor's skill level from the start..
Can you name ones who would do the same. To block one or two attacks is that not impressive?
Why would it be mention in the story if it was not a mark or testament as to how skill Ulic was.
I recognize Dooku as a great swordsman but tell me who on this thread could not defeat Grievous or Ventress?
Dooku may have more combat feats mention in history or story line but they are not feats that make his so much better than Ulic or Exar Kun. Yoda and Mace may be a different story.
blocking two strikes from a mindless lunatic swinging her saber like a club is not enough to put you above the level of Yoda and Mace, who routinely perform incredible feats during the Clone Wars?
Originally posted by Kotor3
Besides Mace are you stating that the other force users mention in your post are on Kun's level and above? I need to have that clarified.
Well, Sora Bulq is a master of Vaapad, referred to as one of the greatest swordsmen in the Jedi Order's history. Dooku beat him while simultaneously fending off another powerful Jedi Master; and I daresay that Bulq would pose a challenge to either Ulic or Kun.
As for Grievous, no, no single opponent he ever defeated is on par with Ulic or Kun. However, I cannot see either of them competing (and TOOLING) five powerful Jedi. Nor can I see them holding their own for as long as Grievous did against Mace. I cannot see them managing not to crumble underneath Grievous' twenty strikes per second. There are two real ways to fight Grievous- either hold your own against his strikes, which would require excellent defense. The CW Cartoon suggests that Dooku used this, as did Obi-Wan. Or, you can match him in offense and speed. Mace did that. You need to be as fast and as skilled as Mace, or to have Obi-Wan's prodigious defense, in order to compete with the General- as far as I know, neither Kun nor Ulic actually displayed that ability.
You don't think tanking a team Ani/OB1 twice is impressive? Stalemating Yoda? Almost killing OB1 who's trained in Soresu (spelling?) for 10 years? Not to mentions countless feats from comics and books. Dooku mastered the finest lightsaber form to the highest possible degree. As a Jedi, he routinely tooled Mace, and as Lord of the Sith - he was noted as becoming even greater.
So really, I pose the question to you. What has Ulic or Kun done that puts them on Dooku's level?
Originally posted by Lightsnake
It is. It doesn't elevate him to godly standards, though.By this logic, Jango is one of the best fighters ever. Nevermind Trebor's skill level from the start..
Most of the New Jedi Order are trained to fight without use of the Force, so them...Oh, and Jerec
Nothing indicates it's meant to point out Ulic's skill. It's there for Sylvar's redemption, period
Point here being? Grievous and Ventress could easily destroy most saber duelists and force users
He's lost to Yoda and is knowingly inferior. Also, did you just imply that Ulic and Kun as duelists are superior to Yoda and Mace?
And I'm afraid Dooku's feats put him on the level of Ulic and Exar.blocking two strikes from a mindless lunatic swinging her saber like a club is not enough to put you above the level of Yoda and Mace, who routinely perform incredible feats during the Clone Wars?
Lightsnake: It is. It doesn't elevate him to godly standards, though. By this logic, Jango is one of the best fighters ever. Nevermind Trebor's skill level from the start..
Kotor: No one said godly status just that it is an impressive feat which you agreed to.
Lightsnake: Most of the New Jedi Order are trained to fight without use of the Force, so them...Oh, and Jerec
Kotor3: Ok, I thought a Jedi was always taught how to fight without use of the force. Did not know that was something new.
Lightsnake: Nothing indicates it's meant to point out Ulic's skill. It's there for Sylvar's redemption, period
Kotor3: I do not see how it does not, but you already agreed that it is an impressive feat. Still for some reasons you do not leave it alone and try to downgrade the feat.
Lightsnake: Point here being? Grievous and Ventress could easily destroy most saber duelists and force users
Kotor3: Fine no one is disagreeing. But they cannot do it to anyone mention in this thread. If they could that would automatically put Dooku above them.
Lightsnake: He's lost to Yoda and is knowingly inferior. Also, did you just imply that Ulic and Kun as duelists are superior to Yoda and Mace?
And I'm afraid Dooku's feats put him on the level of Ulic and Exar.
blocking two strikes from a mindless lunatic swinging her saber like a club is not enough to put you above the level of Yoda and Mace, who routinely perform incredible feats during the Clone Wars?
Kotor3: Lets not put words in my month. I never said that were above Mace or Yoda. I said that it would be a matter of opinion between Exar Kun and Dooku.
The fact that you do not think Ulic (even though you already said it is) feat is impressive does not mean it is not.
Originally posted by Kotor3
Lightsnake: It is. It doesn't elevate him to godly standards, though. By this logic, Jango is one of the best fighters ever. Nevermind Trebor's skill level from the start..Kotor: No one said godly status just that it is an impressive feat which you agreed to.
Lightsnake: Most of the New Jedi Order are trained to fight without use of the Force, so them...Oh, and Jerec
Kotor3: Ok, I thought a Jedi was always taught how to fight without use of the force. Did not know that was something new.
Lightsnake: Nothing indicates it's meant to point out Ulic's skill. It's there for Sylvar's redemption, period
Kotor3: I do not see how it does not, but you already agreed that it is an impressive feat. Still for some reasons you do not leave it alone and try to downgrade the feat.
Lightsnake: Point here being? Grievous and Ventress could easily destroy most saber duelists and force users
Kotor3: Fine no one is disagreeing. But they cannot do it to anyone mention in this thread. If they could that would automatically put Dooku above them.
Lightsnake: He's lost to Yoda and is knowingly inferior. Also, did you just imply that Ulic and Kun as duelists are superior to Yoda and Mace?
And I'm afraid Dooku's feats put him on the level of Ulic and Exar.blocking two strikes from a mindless lunatic swinging her saber like a club is not enough to put you above the level of Yoda and Mace, who routinely perform incredible feats during the Clone Wars?
Kotor3: Lets not put words in my month. I never said that were above Mace or Yoda. I said that it would be a matter of opinion between Exar Kun and Dooku.
The fact that you do not think Ulic (even though you already said it is) feat is impressive does not mean it is not.
You know you just could have copied and pasted the quote brackets and replied to what he typed instead of typing all his shit out again?
And your opinion of Dooku's feats don't make them so either. That door swings both ways.
Originally posted by Kotor3
Lightsnake: It is. It doesn't elevate him to godly standards, though. By this logic, Jango is one of the best fighters ever. Nevermind Trebor's skill level from the start..Kotor: No one said godly status just that it is an impressive feat which you agreed to.
Lightsnake: Most of the New Jedi Order are trained to fight without use of the Force, so them...Oh, and JerecKotor3: Ok, I thought a Jedi was always taught how to fight without use of the force. Did not know that was something new.
Lightsnake: Nothing indicates it's meant to point out Ulic's skill. It's there for Sylvar's redemption, periodKotor3: I do not see how it does not, but you already agreed that it is an impressive feat. Still for some reasons you do not leave it alone and try to downgrade the feat.
Lightsnake: Point here being? Grievous and Ventress could easily destroy most saber duelists and force usersKotor3: Fine no one is disagreeing. But they cannot do it to anyone mention in this thread. If they could that would automatically put Dooku above them.
Lightsnake: He's lost to Yoda and is knowingly inferior. Also, did you just imply that Ulic and Kun as duelists are superior to Yoda and Mace?
And I'm afraid Dooku's feats put him on the level of Ulic and Exar.blocking two strikes from a mindless lunatic swinging her saber like a club is not enough to put you above the level of Yoda and Mace, who routinely perform incredible feats during the Clone Wars?
Kotor3: Lets not put words in my month. I never said that were above Mace or Yoda. I said that it would be a matter of opinion between Exar Kun and Dooku.
The fact that you do not think Ulic (even though you already said it is) feat is impressive does not mean it is not.
Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
You don't think tanking a [b]team Ani/OB1 twice is impressive? Stalemating Yoda? Almost killing OB1 who's trained in Soresu (spelling?) for 10 years? Not to mentions countless feats from comics and books. Dooku mastered the finest lightsaber form to the highest possible degree. As a Jedi, he routinely tooled Mace, and as Lord of the Sith - he was noted as becoming even greater.So really, I pose the question to you. What has Ulic or Kun done that puts them on Dooku's level? [/B]
I have no problem in being educated so please tell me, how can you stalemate someone who is holding back from killing you?
When did Dooku tool Mace once he master his saber skills such as Vaapad to the full? Dooku never defeated Anakin as a Jedi so defeating him as a padawan doesn’t count. Also he defeated Obi Wan and Anakin one on one not together. Remember Anakin foolishly rushed Dooku.
I have to go but will respond later.
Originally posted by Kotor3Any proof that Dooku was going all out? Plus, whether or not Yoda was going all out, if Doouk didn't block a saber strike, he'd die just the same. A I recall, while in a saber lock, he averted his attention to cause that pillar thing to fall on Anakin and OB1.
I have no problem in being educated so please tell me, how can you stalemate someone who is holding back from killing you?
Originally posted by Kotor3When did Dooku join the darkside? Vaapad wouldn't have helped him against a lightside Dooku anyway.
When did Dooku tool Mace once he master his saber skills such as Vaapad to the full?
Originally posted by Kotor3Uh, that padawan Anakin did a lot better than a Jedi Knight Kenobi did, and when that Padawan is the Chosen One, I'd say it counts for a lot. OB1 went down rather quickly, and Anakin had Dooku visibly fatigued. Much tougher than Dooku anticipated.
Dooku never defeated Anakin as a Jedi so defeating him as a padawan doesn’t count.
Originally posted by Kotor3A mere technicality. So he was able to separate them and take them both down. If he could do it as of ROTS, he could certainly do it to a lesser version of both Jedi.
Also he defeated Obi Wan and Anakin one on one not together. Remember Anakin foolishly rushed Dooku.I have to go but will respond later.
Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Any proof that Dooku was going all out? Plus, whether or not Yoda was going all out, if Doouk didn't block a saber strike, he'd die just the same. A I recall, while in a saber lock, he averted his attention to cause that pillar thing to fall on Anakin and OB1.
"Stalemating Yoda" is a complete misconception, Darth Subjekt. On the two occasions that Yoda engaged Dooku, he used every possible means to not harm the Sith Lord. On Geonosis, he specifically told Windu that Dooku "must be captured" -- and allowed him to escape. On Vjun, despite Dooku's stated thirst for Yoda's death and being empowered by the dark side, he was unable to defeat Yoda in combat, even though the Jedi told him: "Wish to hurt you, I do not!"
If Yoda had attacked him like he attacked Dooku's master in RotS, Dooku would have been crushed.
Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
But was he captured? No, he avoided it through blocking his attacks and distracting him, which still lends credit to his combat prowess. No different than Yoda fleeing from Sidious.
You know better than that. Was I dismissing Count Dooku's combat prowess? Hardly. But he's far from a match for Yoda and it is ridiculous to imply as much.