Originally posted by Kento
And Snake still isn't a tactical genius like Cap is. Cap is the smarter fighter, and has a lot more experience.
I respect your opinion. But I think that you are underestimating Snake's tactical genius. After all it is what separates him from everyone else in the MGS series.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Is there any (allowed)equipment that Snake has access to that's beyond what Cap might grab at the Avengers Mansion or Shield Headquarters(where he would often do his prep on solo adventures)?
I set the rules for both of them Cap can only have his shield, pistols, automatics, rocket launchers, and explosives.
Originally posted by Marvelknight
I set the rules for both of them Cap can only have his shield, pistols, automatics, rocket launchers, and explosives.
Originally posted by MarvelknightWhen has Snake ever shown being a great strategist? Specially in MGS 1. He was told what to do by Liquid a lot and Gray Fox a bit, and pretty much let right into Metal Gears storage area with some 'resistance' to make it look like he wasn't let. In 2 he didn't really do much at all. Can't really say much about 4 as I haven't played it yet..stupid PS3 costs so much. As a strategist Cap is head and shoulders above Snake. Now in infiltrating and sneaking Snake has it but that's really not the same area and wouldn't really matter in a straight up fight.
I respect your opinion. But I think that you are underestimating Snake's tactical genius. After all it is what separates him from everyone else in the MGS series.
Personally I think Liquid was a much better strategist..After all he did get Snake to think he was actually getting through the base himself, fooled him by acting like Miller, and made Snake do what they couldn't do start Metal Gear. Snake just happened to be a better fighter and kicked his butt in a fight. While Cap is at the least on par with Snake in fighting skils if not better, and is a strategist along with it. Which I think gives him the advantage if both have made to have the same stats.
With a lot of weapons thrown in though that could bring up a whole lot of different scenario. But when has guns ever been a real problem for Cap or any other high street level fighter, and he has his shield to block missles.
Originally posted by Kento
When has Snake ever shown being a great strategist? Specially in MGS 1. He was told what to do by Liquid a lot and Gray Fox a bit, and pretty much let right into Metal Gears storage area with some 'resistance' to make it look like he wasn't let. In 2 he didn't really do much at all. Can't really say much about 4 as I haven't played it yet..stupid PS3 costs so much. As a strategist Cap is head and shoulders above Snake. Now in infiltrating and sneaking Snake has it but that's really not the same area and wouldn't really matter in a straight up fight.Personally I think Liquid was a much better strategist..After all he did get Snake to think he was actually getting through the base himself, fooled him by acting like Miller, and made Snake do what they couldn't do start Metal Gear. Snake just happened to be a better fighter and kicked his butt in a fight. While Cap is at the least on par with Snake in fighting skils if not better, and is a strategist along with it. Which I think gives him the advantage if both have made to have the same stats.
With a lot of weapons thrown in though that could bring up a whole lot of different scenario. But when has guns ever been a real problem for Cap or any other high street level fighter, and he has his shield to block missles.
Liquid went down in the end. After all that was stacked in his favor. Snake took him down any way. In 1995 Outer Heaven Big Boss gave Snake misleading information for the entire mission. And Snake still came through. He always has some kind of help in every game. But He is alone during every battle. It is his will and skill that's gets him through it all.
Originally posted by MarvelknightThat's why I said Snake was the better fighter. When it came down to it Liquid got him right where he wanted because of his plan but he lacked the skill to beat him in a one-on-one fight. It's like Liquid has the brains while Snake has the skills. Cap not only has the skill to go against Snake he's also go the strategic mind to back it up. Snake usually gets by against bosses with skill, and a little bit of luck at times.
Liquid went down in the end. After all that was stacked in his favor. Snake took him down any way. In 1995 Outer Heaven Big Boss gave Snake misleading information for the entire mission. And Snake still came through. He always has some kind of help in every game. But He is alone during every battle. It is his will and skill that's gets him through it all.
Without the serum, Snake is easily peak human to even possibly low meta. You have to remember that snake essentially came into all of his confrontations alone agaisnt opponents with impossible advantages. The amazing thing is that he doesnt just encounter one overpowering foe, he encounters them in spades and all within hours of each other.
We make gauntet threads here in KMC and usually stipulate the particpant has a day or so to rest in between fights....well in snakes case he literally might only had a hour or so between each member of Fox Hound while he was in shadow mosses. Plus he defeated his borther liquid a few momments after he took down MG rex...keep in mind the overwhealming odds of a lone soilder standing up agaisnt a mobile tank and actually pulling a victory agaisnt it.
Originally posted by The Great Galen
Without the serum, Snake is easily peak human to even possibly low meta. You have to remember that snake essentially came into all of his confrontations alone agaisnt opponents with impossible advantages. The amazing thing is that he doesnt just encounter one overpowering foe, he encounters them in spades and all within hours of each other.We make gauntet threads here in KMC and usually stipulate the particpant has a day or so to rest in between fights....well in snakes case he literally might only had a hour or so between each member of Fox Hound while he was in shadow mosses. Plus he defeated his borther liquid a few momments after he took down MG rex...keep in mind the overwhealming odds of a lone soilder standing up agaisnt a mobile tank and actually pulling a victory agaisnt it.
Originally posted by The Great GalenThe only real feats to be considered in Shadow Moses are his fight with Grey Fox, and his battle against Metal Gear Rex then his fist fight against Liquid. Every other fight was pretty much a charade to make him think he wasn't doing what Liquid wanted.
Without the serum, Snake is easily peak human to even possibly low meta. You have to remember that snake essentially came into all of his confrontations alone agaisnt opponents with impossible advantages. The amazing thing is that he doesnt just encounter one overpowering foe, he encounters them in spades and all within hours of each other.We make gauntet threads here in KMC and usually stipulate the particpant has a day or so to rest in between fights....well in snakes case he literally might only had a hour or so between each member of Fox Hound while he was in shadow mosses. Plus he defeated his borther liquid a few momments after he took down MG rex...keep in mind the overwhealming odds of a lone soilder standing up agaisnt a mobile tank and actually pulling a victory agaisnt it.
Though while taking out MG was impressive he did have a tiny bit of help to weaken it and was also saved by Grey Fox.
Originally posted by Kento
The only real feats to be considered in Shadow Moses are his fight with Grey Fox, and his battle against Metal Gear Rex then his fist fight against Liquid. Every other fight was pretty much a charade to make him think he wasn't doing what Liquid wanted.Though while taking out MG was impressive he did have a tiny bit of help to weaken it and was also saved by Grey Fox.
So you're just going to overlook the Next Generation Special Forces, Wolf, Occelot, Raven, and Mantis? What about the Hind-D that Liquid was in? Outer Heaven and Zanzibar Land were fortified nations that Snake infiltrated. He took on the top mercenaries from around the world along with Big Boss himself. I know Cap has some crazy feats. But you have to give Snake more credit.
Originally posted by MarvelknightI said during Shadow Moses not before or after MGS1 because Great Galen said Shadow Moses. Wolf, Raven, Mantis, even Liquid in the Hind were all just fake resistance. Liquid wanted him to get to the MG hangar he wasn't going to go around killing him. Fox was something Liquid didn't setup, and after MG was active Liquid had no more use for him. Those were the only real battles without Liquid pulling the strings.
So you're just going to overlook the Next Generation Special Forces, Wolf, Occelot, Raven, and Mantis? What about the Hind-D that Liquid was in? Outer Heaven and Zanzibar Land were fortified nations that Snake infiltrated. He took on the top mercenaries from around the world along with Big Boss himself. I know Cap has some crazy feats. But you have to give Snake more credit.
Originally posted by Kento
I said during Shadow Moses not before or after MGS1 because Great Galen said Shadow Moses. Wolf, Raven, Mantis, even Liquid in the Hind were all just fake resistance. Liquid wanted him to get to the MG hangar he wasn't going to go around killing him. Fox was something Liquid didn't setup, and after MG was active Liquid had no more use for him. Those were the only real battles without Liquid pulling the strings.
That's total bias. The hanger was the only part where the resistance was fake. He beat the hind, Fox-Hound, and the rest legitimately. All the Fox-Hound members fought him to the death. Ocelot was the exception, but there were extenuating circumstances there. You can't just pick and choose feats based on a vague supposition that all the fights were fixed. Especially since Liquid never told anyone about his plan.
Snake is not more agile than Cap and he is not a better hand to hand fighter. Yea he is good at cqc but Cap knows it all and his shield would be a major advantage. You put Snake in a brawl no weapons involved against 20 soldiers and he'd lose, Cap would win. Some of you are way downplaying Cap and hyping Snake. and QUIT THE FUKING MGS4 SPOILERS JACKASS.
Originally posted by TheBadguyim sorry, honestly
Snake is not more agile than Cap and he is not a better hand to hand fighter. Yea he is good at cqc but Cap knows it all and his shield would be a major advantage. You put Snake in a brawl no weapons involved against 20 soldiers and he'd lose, Cap would win. Some of you are way downplaying Cap and hyping Snake. and QUIT THE FUKING MGS4 SPOILERS JACKASS.
Originally posted by TricksterPriestThe Hind? How the heck can you call the legit when Liquid needed him. Would you also honestly believe Liquid would send Snake to his death against his men when he needed Snake? Liquid knew he was in there, Liquid played him for a fool, and gave him some resistance to make him think he was actually doing everything because he needed him. There wasn't any other way for MG to actually be operational. Having a chance Snake could be killed would be extremely dumb on Liquids part. Heck trying to actually kill Snake in that Hind would be dumb when he led him through everything. The only parts that wouldn't fit into a plan made by Liquid is Gray Fox, and after Snake gets Metal Gear up and running. Which are feats in themselves. Just because Snake killed the people he thought were trying to kill him doesn't suddenly mean they weren't led to give him fake resistance. He'd be actually trying to kill them and they'd just be trying to make him think he's actually going through with something they don't want him to. Killed for a greater cause and all that.
That's total bias. The hanger was the only part where the resistance was fake. He beat the hind, Fox-Hound, and the rest legitimately. All the Fox-Hound members fought him to the death. Ocelot was the exception, but there were extenuating circumstances there. You can't just pick and choose feats based on a vague supposition that all the fights were fixed. Especially since Liquid never told anyone about his plan.