Darth Maul Vs. Ventress

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Hell, when I take a big shit, I'll grunt something that sounds like, "nn."

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
I know what your point was, that he did feel it, but like E here, I wouldn't say severe pain that was to the point where he had to struggle or muster all his remaining energy just to strike her down.

Originally posted by Galan007
agreed. imo, the lightning really had no effect on maul, aside from dropping him to the ground while in mid-jump.

Which is just logical really.

Not necessarily.

Is there proof that it was the lightning that stopped his momentum and not him simply falling the ground in pain?

wasnt Dooku a jedi at the time that maul was around.. he defineltely even as a jedi would have taken maul, being the most learned student in the ways of the force, and still the unrivalled master of makashi.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
Not necessarily.

Is there proof that it was the lightning that stopped his momentum and not him simply falling the ground in pain?

Darth Maul said, and I quote: "There is no pain where strength lies"

Oh, and the Nightsister said during their encounter: "Even you can't stand before force lighting and the power of the Dark side .. how can you .. resist?"

Later in the same issue, Darth Maul had his stomach pretty much sliced up and he did nothing but winch. Pain isnt something that holds Darth Maul back.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
wasnt Dooku a jedi at the time that maul was around.. he defineltely even as a jedi would have taken maul, being the most learned student in the ways of the force, and still the unrivalled master of makashi.

This thread is not about Dooku. It's Maul Vs. Ventress

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
wasnt Dooku a jedi at the time that maul was around.. he defineltely even as a jedi would have taken maul, being the most learned student in the ways of the force, and still the unrivalled master of makashi.

Since this thread is pretty much decided already, I'll get a little off subject and address the above with an opinion of mine.

Two feats of Maul that come to mind off the top of my head are his complete domination of Qui-Gon Jinn, while having an ankle (or was it thigh) injury. Qui-Gon was Dooku's best apprentice and one of the greatest swordsmen of the current Jedi Order.

The other feat is even better: taking apart Anoon Bondara in a few seconds. Anoon was probably the Jedi Battlemaster at the time, and it was stated multiple times that his lightsaber skills were second to none. Which means that he was better with a lightsaber than Mace, Dooku (who was part of the Order at that point), and even Yoda. Now, I wouldn't say that Anoon could beat Yoda in a duel, simply because of Yoda's speed...nonetheless, Anoon had to have been one of the best duelists ever. And Maul put him to shame. Easily. It's my opinion that in a saber battle, Darth Maul would best Darth Tyrannus.

Where a Force battle is concerned, I don't think that would be an issue, either. If an AOTC Obi-Wan can block Dooku's lightning with his saber, you know Maul wouldn't have any problems with it. His TK experience might present a problem for Maul, but I'm betting he could offset that advantage with his lanvarok (Used by Darth Maul - see here for more), which would certainly interrupt Dooku's concentration and give Maul the time he needs to close the distance and cross blades.

^

on the topic of dooku vs. maul, dooku would have the clear advantage in one area in particular [ie. the area of mental discipline]. i say this because an instance comes to mind in which maul battled the mildly force-sensetive silus. when they initially started battling, maul was fearful. he was fearful that his master had forsaken him, and that he was no longer favored. this fear, this doubt, made maul seemingly lose his connection to the force, for a moment [by his own accord] in which silus began pummeling him.

though maul very quickly used this fear/doubt to his advantage and slaughtered silus, the fact still remains that if one were wise enough to successfully play 'mental games' with maul [which dooku is], then one may well gain that key edge over him. a moment of doubt is all dooku would need imo.

I have problems with the anoon "best duelest in teh orda" thing, yet again. Was the whole thing a writer not really thinking what he was saying, and just writing down something that would screw us over as far as darth maul goes, and make me wonder how in the heck they could have maul beat someone better than dooku and mace windu, and then have obi wan do the drastic, two second long move that caused him to die, when everything, mauls mastery of saber skills, his juyo, his knowledge of multiple martial arts, everything about him screamed for him not to get owned by a padawan.

A person died from trying to enter Darth Maul's mind 😛

^

one needn't enter maul's mind, for the tactic i commented on to be completely effective.

I think a lot of people don't give Maul his proper credit due to his lack of a huge and long-lasting role in the movies, and I was one of them for quite some time. However, while he simply a beast and badass, i can't see him competing with Dooku on any level, other than hand-to-hand combat, which, face it, wouldn't last long as Dooku would likely just hit him with a force attack. Having said that, Ventrss is definitely no Dooku, and as I said earlier, Maul would simply take her out.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
I have problems with the anoon "best duelest in teh orda" thing, yet again. Was the whole thing a writer not really thinking what he was saying, and just writing down something that would screw us over as far as darth maul goes, and make me wonder how in the heck they could have maul beat someone better than dooku and mace windu, and then have obi wan do the drastic, two second long move that caused him to die, when everything, mauls mastery of saber skills, his juyo, his knowledge of multiple martial arts, everything about him screamed for him not to get owned by a padawan.

Also, if Yoda is the most devastating foe ever known to the darkness, who was equal to Sidious and Mace was second only to Yoda, then obviously they're better. Anakin, he just turned Dooku's whole existence into a joke and was the chosen one, and then OB1 beat him (with luck) and was able to (rather was the one to face GG. So I would say even their applications with a saber would rank them above Anoon. I think that too much emphasis is put on that statement sometimes.

No, people fail to realize that Anoon was named the most skilled duelist prior to TPM; during the Clone Wars it is quite clear Jedi like Mace (and Yoda, since he is always regarded as his superior) would've progressed by a vast margin because of the war itself.

So Anoon being the best with a blade at that point in time really shouldn't cause any problems. By ROTS, it is likely Mace and others surpassed him.

I personally don't see a Jedi Master of eight centuries improving by a "vast" margin in the span of three years, especially since his combat against lightsaber-wielding opponents are few and far between.

I'm going to agree there, although I maintain that Yoda's vastly superior power would net him a pretty easy win against Anoon.

With the reemergence of the Sith and a major war, I think he would've wanted to hone his skills to the highest degree possible. There was no need to really focus on lightsaber combat before the movie saga anyways given the relative peace.

But that is entirely speculative, Advent. Given how modern weaponry has shifted from swords and spears to automatic rifles, there isn't any reason for fencing to exist. Yet it remains a somewhat popular martial art with numerous masters and highly talented combatants. One doesn't have to have an imminent reason to practice one's swordsmanship in order to maintain it, in real life or in Star Wars.

Originally posted by Advent
With the reemergence of the Sith and a major war, I think he would've wanted to hone his skills to the highest degree possible. There was no need to really focus on lightsaber combat before the movie saga anyways given the relative peace.

darth maul. his force powers would give him the edge.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Well you have to think that just because his "skills" were second to none, doesn't mean that he could compete or actually duel at the same level as other Jedi. If he was that incredible, than surely he would have made it into a movie and had a bigger role overall. Of course that's my assumption, but I think it stands to reason.

Advent got to this before I could. Anoon died in 32 BBY, and TPM begins that year, several months after Anoon's death.

Also, if Yoda is the most devastating foe ever known to the darkness, who was equal to Sidious and Mace was second only to Yoda, then obviously they're better. Anakin, he just turned Dooku's whole existence into a joke and was the chosen one, and then OB1 beat him (with luck) and was able to (rather was the one to face GG. So I would say even their applications with a saber would rank them above Anoon. I think that too much emphasis is put on that statement sometimes.

It's a pretty good possibility that Anoon was the Jedi Battlemaster before Cin Drallig, because in the book it mentions him being a lightsaber instructor at the temple, training and training Obi-Wan as a padawon in particular. He also died in 32 BBY, which is apparently the same year Drallig became Battlemaster (got that from Wookieepedia, take it with a grain of salt). He was also a master of Teras Kasi, just like Maul. But all that hardly matters when, if you recall, ROTS Vader defeated Cin Drallig one-handed while simultaneously Force Choking one of his padawons. So I think its clear that one can have peerless skill with a saber, yet be defeated by someone who is vastly superior in the Force.

Maul demonstrates the ability to practically walk through Force Lightning (perhaps around Dooku's strength?) and Force Choke to death a non-Force sensitive. Just because we don't see him use a lot of Force skills, doesn't mean we can say he's particularly weak in that area. Sidious personally trained him, afterall. He should be plenty fast enough to keep up with Dooku's bladework, the only thing he'd probably have trouble with is Dooku's amazing TK.

Originally posted by Advent
No, people fail to realize that Anoon was named the most skilled duelist prior to TPM; during the Clone Wars it is quite clear Jedi like Mace (and Yoda, since he is always regarded as his superior) would've progressed by a vast margin because of the war itself.

We saw what Sidious' speed was able to do to so called master swordsmen like Saesee Tiin and Kit Fisto. So I wouldn't necessarily say that Yoda is ever more skilled than Anoon with a blade, but that he's so much faster than Anoon that he would be able to defeat him, regardless. Mace is difficult to say, because Dooku was able to defeat him before he left the Order. So his position as #2 on the Council is probably due to a mix of his saber abilities, Force mastery, and insightful wisdom.