Sephiroth Vs. Archimonde

Originally posted by DarkC
Granted it was a hindrance at first, or what Archimonde said, but when the vines kept strangling him without any pause despite his efforts, the book described his efforts as "growing ever frantic", despite his normal face. Considering that his face remains impassive most of the time anyways, I would say that this was him starting to give.

As Utrigita said, he teleported away not wanting to risk anything - which basically meant "saving his own skin". He could have easily came back and wiped everyone. At least he marked Malfurion for later.

He did bar the palace from the Emerald Dream - but it doesn't really mean too much of his power. Think of it as a ward. Even if it was a standard ward against demons, Sargeras would still have trouble breaking through despite being a god (as shown in The Last Guardian). I wouldn't take it so far as to say that he shut down Ysera's control over that realm, because Malfurion did nothing to ask her to go check it out - she probably just didn't notice or care.

And what was his effort to be exact, ripping them away with his hands? The amount of effort he put into getting out of them seems to me lacking compared to what he had just done against Malorne. Archimonde isn't a brawler but a Warlock of the highest rank from the Eredar Race, and he uses his hands, that doesn't to me sound like a effort.

Yes he could, and my point is that he didn't, that to me seems as he didn't flee but instead as Becci said choose a tactical retreat, I suppose from his point of view the major threats to the Legion had just been removed which they had.

Didn't care that a Demon shielded her from her own realm? Also I don't think it was a Ward...

"Malfurion Stormrage stepped forward, facing the distant demon with eyes as dead as when he had first told the others of Tyrande's kidnapping. A static aura surrounded him and he constantly muttered over a small piece of what Krasus was the first to recognize as a leaf similar to those of the vines. Archimonde's expression never shifted, but his movement became more and more frantic. The vines now covered three quarters of his immense body and appeared all but certain to drape the rest imminently.

Perhaps realizing this, the archdemon ceased his attempts to remove the strangling plants. Instead, eyes narrowed, he freed his arms enough to bring his hands together.

And as Archimonde clasped his fingers . . . the Legion's terrifying commander vanished in a blaze of green flame"

Originally posted by Utrigita
And what was his effort to be exact, ripping them away with his hands? The amount of effort he put into getting out of them seems to me lacking compared to what he had just done against Malorne. Archimonde isn't a brawler but a Warlock of the highest rank from the Eredar Race, and he uses his hands, that doesn't to me sound like a effort.

Yes he could, and my point is that he didn't, that to me seems as he didn't flee but instead as Becci said choose a tactical retreat, I suppose from his point of view the major threats to the Legion had just been removed which they had.

Didn't care that a Demon shielded her from her own realm? Also I don't think it was a Ward...

Yet, that doesn't make sense when late in the 3rd WOTA book he struck EVERYONE in the band - Krasus, Malfurion, Jarod, Brox down at the same time - only Alexstrasza's action saved them.

Remember that she's fairly aloof in most manners, even concerning the demons - not being able to see there wouldn't have mattered too much to her, even if she had deigned to notice it.

Yeah. They had to mention Korialstrasz death before Ysera even bothered with the situation. That's true. Although, I do believe that she cares what happens with her realm. Especially when someone wields the power to effect it.

Originally posted by DarkC
To be fair, he killed Malorne with his bare hands too.

Yet, that doesn't make sense when late in the 3rd WOTA book he struck EVERYONE in the band - Krasus, Malfurion, Jarod, Brox down at the same time - only Alexstrasza's action saved them.

Remember that she's fairly aloof in most manners, even concerning the demons - not being able to see there wouldn't have mattered too much to her, even if she had deigned to notice it.

That he did after having trapped him with his spell that produced the hands that kept Malorne in place, A spell that would have worked against Malorne would like have to have been a Paramount spell. A spell against malfurion on the other hand didn't have to be at that magnitude.

With all respect DarkC,
Krasus, Malfurion, Jarod And Brox vs Malorne, Cenarius, Ursol, Ursoc, Aviana, and Agamaggan.
At the point of time Archimonde removed himself from battle the greatest threats, from my point of view, at that time had been neutrilized, then later Archimondes turns his attention to the then greatest threat, and I find it a bit strange that in one scenario he as you say flees the scene and in another he defeats them easily (wasn't it in the Palace he attacked them?)

It was going into the possibility of Archimonde actually affecting it not through a Ward but with his magical power, that I don't think Ysera will overlook as little as she overlooked the nightmare in the Emerald Dream she reachted quickly.

Originally posted by Utrigita
That he did after having trapped him with his spell that produced the hands that kept Malorne in place, A spell that would have worked against Malorne would like have to have been a Paramount spell. A spell against malfurion on the other hand didn't have to be at that magnitude.

With all respect DarkC,
Krasus, Malfurion, Jarod And Brox vs Malorne, Cenarius, Ursol, Ursoc, Aviana, and Agamaggan.
At the point of time Archimonde removed himself from battle the greatest threats, from my point of view, at that time had been neutrilized, then later Archimondes turns his attention to the then greatest threat, and I find it a bit strange that in one scenario he as you say flees the scene and in another he defeats them easily (wasn't it in the Palace he attacked them?)

It was going into the possibility of Archimonde actually affecting it not through a Ward but with his magical power, that I don't think Ysera will overlook as little as she overlooked the nightmare in the Emerald Dream she reachted quickly.

True, but even then they're almost technically as much a threat to the Legion as the demigods were. It would have made sense for him to kill them sooner, rather than later.

The nightmare affects all of the Dream if I remember correctly, she'd obviously notice that - but likely not such a small part of her domain.

Originally posted by DarkC
No, Malorne easily broke free of the fel hands spell - that's when the actual battle began. Archimonde didn't even use his hands alone, he had to use magic to fuel his fists as well.

True, but even then they're almost technically as much a threat to the Legion as the demigods were. It would have made sense for him to kill them sooner, rather than later.

The nightmare affects all of the Dream if I remember correctly, she'd obviously notice that - but likely not such a small part of her domain.

My point was to illustrate that Archimonde as a Warlock would resort to magic ore long range attacks first in a encounter, and then he will as you mention yourself continue to use magic given what he is. That Archimonde that preferes to uses magic against his opponents begins to use his hands without enchantments seems a bit okward to me.

They became a threat. At the point of time where the Demigods where defeated/killed the Legions largest concern was them it then later changed to Malfurion and Co also the mentioning of that Archimonde defeated them later doesn't from my point of view support the idea that he fleed if he later shows the ability to deal with Malfurion.

Yet it began in a part of the Dream and it quickly became Yseras concern if I remember correctly, not just because it was spreading but because it changed and denied her access to a part of her realm, but it can work both ways either she didn't care ore couldn't do anything about it.

Originally posted by Utrigita
My point was to illustrate that Archimonde as a Warlock would resort to magic ore long range attacks first in a encounter, and then he will as you mention yourself continue to use magic given what he is. That Archimonde that preferes to uses magic against his opponents begins to use his hands without enchantments seems a bit okward to me.

They became a threat. At the point of time where the Demigods where defeated/killed the Legions largest concern was them it then later changed to Malfurion and Co also the mentioning of that Archimonde defeated them later doesn't from my point of view support the idea that he fleed if he later shows the ability to deal with Malfurion.

Yet it began in a part of the Dream and it quickly became Yseras concern if I remember correctly, not just because it was spreading but because it changed and denied her access to a part of her realm, but it can work both ways either she didn't care ore couldn't do anything about it.

Personally I think that he would have teleported away as soon as Malorne was dead - it doesn't make sense why he would start ripping vines off and making himself look silly. If he had the power (which, he should) he would have owned Malfurion right then and there like he did earlier in the series, but he apparently did not possess the capability to do so. All he could do there was glare at Malfurion and mark him for later.

Well, Archimonde's spell did not spread, and it only barred Ysera from a very small part of her realm, which apparently to her was insignificant.

Well, Archimonde has proven himself vastly strategical and intellectual. It is no question about it, that even when he teleported away from the scene, he could have just appeared in front of Malfurion. He would have had no problems killing the druid, or the others, had he only wanted.

He is no fool. Why he did not finish the group we will never know, but I am very sure he had his reasons.

Or it was just pure and simple PIS. Had he finished them (Which he could), it would all have been over 😛

Originally posted by DarkC
Well, awkward or not, it's exactly what he did. I'm pretty sure that the battle was more symbolic than practical, or maybe being a part of Kalimdor itself protected Malorne from his fel magic, but surely enough Archimonde DID suffer injury from that encounter.

Personally I think that he would have teleported away as soon as Malorne was dead - it doesn't make sense why he would start ripping vines off and making himself look silly. If he had the power (which, he should) he would have owned Malfurion right then and there like he did earlier in the series, but he apparently did not possess the capability to do so. All he could do there was glare at Malfurion and mark him for later.

Well, Archimonde's spell did not spread, and it only barred Ysera from a very small part of her realm, which apparently to her was insignificant.

I don't recall him getting wounded actually, didn't he take the full blow from Malornes attack with no ill effect?

Agreed he should ore he should just have burned them away and then teleported, I can see why it looks bad for the book that Archimonde fries Malfurion but I think the other looks even worse a shame it's a good book. I thought you said later? I don't recall Malfurion and Archimonde meeting prior to the fall of Malorne. That is what I would call PIS that right at that moment Archimonde does not have the capacity to dispose of Malfurion when he shows later that he can...

It still had a negative effect on Ysera realm the barrier was placed by the very Demon that killed her Belovent Malorne she had no reason not to act against it since it limited the Druids opportunities for a quick attack.

Originally posted by Utrigita
I don't recall him getting wounded actually, didn't he take the full blow from Malornes attack with no ill effect?

Agreed he should ore he should just have burned them away and then teleported, I can see why it looks bad for the book that Archimonde fries Malfurion but I think the other looks even worse a shame it's a good book. I thought you said later? I don't recall Malfurion and Archimonde meeting prior to the fall of Malorne. That is what I would call PIS that right at that moment Archimonde does not have the capacity to dispose of Malfurion when he shows later that he can...

It still had a negative effect on Ysera realm the barrier was placed by the very Demon that killed her Belovent Malorne she had no reason not to act against it since it limited the Druids opportunities for a quick attack.

It's probably just another case of PIS - but yes, Archimonde marked him for later, along with others apparently. He cast a spell on the band that was meant to turn them into stone, and would have succeeded were it not for Alexstrasza's intervention.

Yes, but that was not until later on, near the end of the third book. Until then she didn't really care too much, then after her mate was killed, she got heartbroken, not to mention EXTREMELY pissed.

"Sharp, glistering dots from which burst green fire showed where antlers had pierced Archimonde's seemingly imprevious skin"

After that Malorne had made a full-forced slam into Archimonde, two dots was the only result, and the only specified negative effect on Archimonde.

Originally posted by DarkC
He met the first charge of Malorne head on, yes. However both suffered injuries throughout the fight. The novel comments as such on Malorne's pelt being burned by Archmonde's fel fists, while some sort of green-fire was leaking out of the holes in Archimonde's skin where Malorne's antlers had peirced.

It's probably just another case of PIS - but yes, Archimonde marked him for later, along with others apparently. He cast a spell on the band that was meant to turn them into stone, and would have succeeded were it not for Alexstrasza's intervention.

Yes, but that was not until later on, near the end of the third book. Until then she didn't really care too much, then after her mate was killed, she got heartbroken, not to mention EXTREMELY pissed.

Once again the irritating lack of not having the book you (reference to myself) forget details 😠.

I'm for one is leaning towards that. And Malfurion could do nothing to stop Archimondes spell right then "tactical withdraw" from the scene we are discussing sounds best ore is simply another Grom vs Mannaroth incident.

Yes but wasn't the ward put into effect after that?

Originally posted by Utrigita
Once again the irritating lack of not having the book you (reference to myself) forget details 😠.

I'm for one is leaning towards that. And Malfurion could do nothing to stop Archimondes spell right then "tactical withdraw" from the scene we are discussing sounds best ore is simply another Grom vs Mannaroth incident.

Yes but wasn't the ward put into effect after that?

Grom vs Mannoroth was pretty PIS, albeit cool; you're pitting an Orc against one of the most prominent demons in Archimonde's upper cabinet, have to think about that, and Mannoroth got destroyed. It's like saying that Saurfang would win against Brutallus.

Okay, maybe Saurfang would win, but still.

No - the presence of the ward was established at the beginning of that book actually, where Malfurion was lamenting to Rhonin about how he's failed to even see beyond the palace walls. The passage after that, describing the Emerald Dream, says that "recently Archimonde had strengthened these barriers, blocking even the Emerald Dream out", or something like that.

Not sure if it was taken off after Tyrande made a run for it with the Highborne or not.

I only had it for a month and then the library hasn't been capable of getting it back again.. So i'm just roughly going from what I remember from a book I have read two years ago.

That was PIS agreed and it's just based on how easy Archimonde could have killed Malfurion and Co, but chooses to teleport that seems like PIS to me too.

You think so?

Ahh I don't quiet recall that passage to be honest... And wouldn't that remove the possibility of a ward since Malfurion said strengthen them already existing barriers?

Ha you forgot 😛

Originally posted by Utrigita
I only had it for a month and then the library hasn't been capable of getting it back again.. So i'm just roughly going from what I remember from a book I have read two years ago.

That was PIS agreed and it's just based on how easy Archimonde could have killed Malfurion and Co, but chooses to teleport that seems like PIS to me too.

You think so?

Ahh I don't quiet recall that passage to be honest... And wouldn't that remove the possibility of a ward since Malfurion said strengthen them already existing barriers?

Ha you forgot 😛

Brox's ax is also entirely nonexistant in the game thus far, which also pisses me off.

I don't really get that one.....if the barriers (wards, for the sake of argument) were already up, how would that remove the possibility of one? What?

Well the reason I doesn't play WoW is because of there amount of PIS and the finger they have given the Lore.

Never mind a small detail from a previous argument

Originally posted by DarkC
Brox's ax is also entirely nonexistant in the game thus far, which also pisses me off.

It's a drop from a future Sargeras encounter.

Originally posted by Becci
It's a drop from a future Sargeras encounter.

🤨

Stupid f*cking PIS.

Originally posted by Becci
It's a drop from a future Sargeras encounter.

If they make that I'm going to bomb Blizzard headquaters into oblivion. I mean isn't it enough that you defeat Medivh, that a bunch of heroes are going to stop Malygos, that Kil'Jaeden gets repulsed by a bunch of heroes and that a group of heroes, most likely, get to kill the Lich King 🤨