Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66Want to back that up?
Nothing said can change the fact that Sidious is the most powerful sith lord of all time.
While that is the general consensus, the Nature of the Lord of Hunger is such that he could still defeat Sids.
Raw power and truly extensive knowledge is one thing, but control and finesse of that that power and ability to use the knowledge ( Palpatine cannot use the Lightside Period ) that one has is another.
By the way, if any Jedi/Sith that had the ability to heal someones heart or spirit then they could SEVERELY disrupt his abilities.
So anyone clever enough or with the knowledge of what would happen could defeat him.
See he was so immersed in darkness that he became it's avatar and battle, war, atrocities, any conflict in general could serve to strengthen and deepen his connection. His only weakness was that there was NO WAY IN HELL that he could even touch the light and not be harmed.
See the thing is that while
Freedon Nadd
Exar kun
Ulic Qel-Droma (before it was stripped/suppressed I say suppressed because he managed to become one with the force so...)
Revan and Malak
Traya
and virtually all of the other Sith had the capacity to redeem themselves and once again be of the Light, heck some could use the Light even while they were of the Sith.
Palpatine could not ever be redeemed and after he started to use the Darkside to transfer his spirit from one body to another, the light was forever forbidden to him.
So when Leia and Luke used the force to heal him as if they cared about him and exposed him to light it ****ed him up.
Those are my theories and I hope there atleast 90% correct.
The sources have spoken at last, your days as an anti-palpatine dog are over...
Here are some sources along with the ones i took and borrowed from gideon.
The Rebels were turning out to be more troublesome than many had expected. The Emperor had known it would be thus, of course; the resistance had not been a surprise to him. The Emperor was completely in concert with the dark side of the Force. He was the most powerful Sith to have ever existed.
-- Death Star, page 76.
"...Yoda could defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in history."
-- The New Essential Chronology, page 84
Beyond the vision of the Jedi Knights, somewhere within the darkness, the greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power bides his time. As his strength grows, his plans begin to shape the course of the galaxy, and his snares await the unsuspecting.
-- The Complete Visual Dictionary, page 72.
Dark Empire sourcebook:
Palpatine has risen from the dead. The most powerful Sith Lord who ever lived had returned.
Empire's End, one of the Sith spirits(The audio book, i got this from nikkolas):
He gave up everything to the Dark Side long ago. He has become the greatest who ever lived. He is the strongest who ever lived....I say we give what he wishes.
Star Wars Insider, Kevin J. Anderson, upon asked if he ever intended his Sith to be stronger than the OT sith: No. Exar Kun, Naga Sadow and the others are on a firmly lower tier than Emperor Palpatine.
On TFN.net, official response to the strongest Sith: Palpatine at his peak.
Essential Chronology: the most powerful Sith who had ever lived, Emperor Palpatine had returned from the grave.
[The Galactic Emperor] had succeeded where all others failed in taming the Dark Side. He would journey across the universe, spreading the shadow of his rule, blotting out the stars themselves, and taking his Dark Rule to other helpless galaxies.
His battle with Luke in Dark Empire, according to the audio, had enough energy sent off to kill nearby Stormtroopers. He also can drain planets of their energy.
Originally posted by Schwarzenegger
The sources have spoken at last, your days as an anti-palpatine dog are over...Here are some sources along with the ones i took and borrowed from gideon.
The Rebels were turning out to be more troublesome than many had expected. The Emperor had known it would be thus, of course; the resistance had not been a surprise to him. The Emperor was completely in concert with the dark side of the Force.[b] He was the most powerful Sith to have ever existed.
-- Death Star, page 76."...Yoda could defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in history."
-- The New Essential Chronology, page 84Beyond the vision of the Jedi Knights, somewhere within the darkness, the greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power bides his time. As his strength grows, his plans begin to shape the course of the galaxy, and his snares await the unsuspecting.
-- The Complete Visual Dictionary, page 72.Dark Empire sourcebook:
Palpatine has risen from the dead. The most powerful Sith Lord who ever lived had returned.
Empire's End, one of the Sith spirits(The audio book, i got this from nikkolas):
He gave up everything to the Dark Side long ago. He has become the greatest who ever lived. He is the strongest who ever lived....I say we give what he wishes.Star Wars Insider, Kevin J. Anderson, upon asked if he ever intended his Sith to be stronger than the OT sith: No. Exar Kun, Naga Sadow and the others are on a firmly lower tier than Emperor Palpatine.
On TFN.net, official response to the strongest Sith: Palpatine at his peak.
Essential Chronology: the most powerful Sith who had ever lived, Emperor Palpatine had returned from the grave.
[The Galactic Emperor] had succeeded where all others failed in taming the Dark Side. He would journey across the universe, spreading the shadow of his rule, blotting out the stars themselves, and taking his Dark Rule to other helpless galaxies.
His battle with Luke in Dark Empire, according to the audio, had enough energy sent off to kill nearby Stormtroopers. He also can drain planets of their energy. [/B]
Wow i even missed a lot of those.
Originally posted by SchwarzeneggerI never said he was not he most powerful Sith Lord in history, but I was refering how Luke and Leai manged to actually beat him.
The sources have spoken at last, your days as an anti-palpatine dog are over...Here are some sources along with the ones i took and borrowed from gideon.
The Rebels were turning out to be more troublesome than many had expected. The Emperor had known it would be thus, of course; the resistance had not been a surprise to him. The Emperor was completely in concert with the dark side of the Force.[b] He was the most powerful Sith to have ever existed.
-- Death Star, page 76."...Yoda could defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in history."
-- The New Essential Chronology, page 84Beyond the vision of the Jedi Knights, somewhere within the darkness, the greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power bides his time. As his strength grows, his plans begin to shape the course of the galaxy, and his snares await the unsuspecting.
-- The Complete Visual Dictionary, page 72.Dark Empire sourcebook:
Palpatine has risen from the dead. The most powerful Sith Lord who ever lived had returned.
Empire's End, one of the Sith spirits(The audio book, i got this from nikkolas):
He gave up everything to the Dark Side long ago. He has become the greatest who ever lived. He is the strongest who ever lived....I say we give what he wishes.Star Wars Insider, Kevin J. Anderson, upon asked if he ever intended his Sith to be stronger than the OT sith: No. Exar Kun, Naga Sadow and the others are on a firmly lower tier than Emperor Palpatine.
On TFN.net, official response to the strongest Sith: Palpatine at his peak.
Essential Chronology: the most powerful Sith who had ever lived, Emperor Palpatine had returned from the grave.
[The Galactic Emperor] had succeeded where all others failed in taming the Dark Side. He would journey across the universe, spreading the shadow of his rule, blotting out the stars themselves, and taking his Dark Rule to other helpless galaxies.
His battle with Luke in Dark Empire, according to the audio, had enough energy sent off to kill nearby Stormtroopers. He also can drain planets of their energy. [/B]
The fact that he was completely in concert with darkness is what opened that attack avenue.
The fact that they merely used the light to heal him is what separates them from everybody else who tried to vanquish him.
They FOUGHT him, they were trying to KILL or DESTROY him and it served only to strengthen his grasp on the darkside, but when the Skywalker twins HEALED him they exposed him to the light and disrupted his connections to evil and they darkside. Conflicts, great and small, are what fuels it, and instead of trying to harm him or hurt him they use the force to heal his diseased spirit.
Prove to mean that they had to used all their might to do this and I will be defeated.
Let me get you the scene in which those two finally beat him.
When they healed him, his control over his OWN ABILITIES were extremely disrupted and he couldn't regain control over them and he was destroyed by his own power.
He was DEFINITELY the most powerful, but did he have the most CONTROL over it is what I question?
His self control is lacking a tiny bit and that is where Traya and Sion Severly outclass him.
@ Arnold
I was talking to the new guy...
Members Usually give reasons as well as opinion and he didn't give any reasons.
Dude, is the third Skywalker really worth mentioning, I mean damn I'm so sorry I forgot one tiny little detail that prevents you from recognizing my point of how he was defeated in the first place...
What is the problem with the Triumvirate doing the same?
Yes, I acknowledge that they probably wouldn't, but I would like you to prove to me that they couldn't.
Originally posted by SchwarzeneggerAgain, you focus on minor details and twist my words... your getting as bad as Tangible God.
Please, any dick who gets his force connection severed would not be able to control his own abilities.Hell nihilus did something to kreia which made it extremely hard for her to use the force(not that she got cut off), but does that mean she is "outclassed" by other chinky jedi's?
What I meant was the way he got his force Severed from him. It makes an outstanding flaw, and even though it's pretty much the only one it is enough to be exploited.
Clearly, from the numerous canon sources we have, Darth Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord ever.
But, does that mean he's the most powerful Dark Side Practitioner ever? It seemed as though he was wary of Gethzerion, a Nightsister - who uses the Dark Side. Others also use Sith Sorcery and the Dark Side, such as numerous Dark Jedi who are not considered Sith.
I accept that he is the most powerful Sith Lord to have lived. However, I think that others have the potential to surpass him in power. Darth Nihilus' power is only limited by what he can consume. There's no reason to think if he if consumes enough planets rich in Force-sensitives that he wouldn't surpass Sidious in power. Also, Ancient Sith like Marka Ragnos and Naga Sadow, I would argue, have the potential to surpass Sidious in power, simply through their alchemy and sorcery - by artificially enhancing themselves with amulets and whatnot.
Excluding his Dark Empire incarnation, in a versus match or in combat, I think he would especially be able to be beaten by Nihilus or Ragnos under the right circumstances. Perhaps even Darth Bane, due to his armor.
Nihilus' case has already been made. I think Ragnos would also have a strong opportunity to win due to his power and, once again, Sith arcane knowledge. He has a scepter that acts as a Nihilus-like Force Drain technique. He's got a Sith Sword that is tremendously power, amplifying and focusing their own power as well as enhancing the wielder's Force Lightning and absorbing an enemy's Force Lightning. His gauntlets allow him increased skill with his melee weapons and more amplified power. Whatever mark he has on his forehead which signifies that he is the DLOTS further magnifies his power with the Dark Side. I'm sure I'm leaving out other enhancements, but there you go.
Bane is doubtful, but it's anything but certain.
Anyway. The point of that was that while Sidious may be the most powerful Sith Lord, I don't believe him to be invincible against other Dark Side users.
No, i would like you to prove they can, once again palpatines entire focus was on the force storm, so how was he suppose to resist an attack?
The burden is on you pal, prove up or don't bother at all.
If its so easy to snap one's connection then why isn't kreia or sidious or other jedi masters doing it as their basic means of assault?
As for the third skywalker anakin, it was stated that out of the 3 solo children, he had the highest potential.
Enyalus, while i agree its plausible that nihilus and bane defeats a post ROTJ sidious(which by then is extremely powerful), i doubt ragnos would because we know absolute jack about him.
He used a scepter but so what? Palpatine replicated this feat without technology unlike ragnos and palpatine's force lightning has been shown to be the most potent and lethal, followed closely by bane.
Originally posted by SchwarzeneggerAlso, when Iwas refering to his lack of control over his own abilities, I was inferring to what he himself(and you poined out as well) admitted at not being able to control the Force Storm completely and/or perfectly.
Please, any dick who gets his force connection severed would not be able to control his own abilities.Hell nihilus did something to kreia which made it extremely hard for her to use the force(not that she got cut off), but does that mean she is "outclassed" by other chinky jedi's?
About how Traya and Sion outclass him in control...
1. I meant to compare their finesse and control when they (All The Sith Involved int this thread) were in full possesion of their powers.
2. Traya is arguable but Sion raw ability to keep himself alive in ways that border on the nigh-immortal.
3.I'm getting really tired of having to spell myself and my intent out like I'm talking to Idiots(and I know I'm not) plus the thing where people seem to intentionally misinterpret what I said just so they can justify arguing ALL my points and post.
He uses a Sith Sword for attacking. The swords are designed to attract and store the lightning and then let it out all at once when it strikes the next object. Palpatine's Force Lightning would be useless. Ragnos was clearly a skilled duelist, evidenced by the battles he won, the empire he held together, and the fact that he went unchallenged. Plus his gauntlets granted him increased melee skill.
I don't know if he'd win or not, assuming this isn't DE Sidious. But I think its very possible that he could.
And why wasn't he able to fully control the force storms? Simple, its because it is possibly the most destructive force attack ever and just look at th e sheer size of the vortex over pinnacle moon, the very fact that palpatine was able to control it to his will in he first place IS a testament to his power and contrl.
And please don't ramble about sions immortality, what is to prevent from sidious from overpowering sions will or using the force to prevent sion from holding his body?
And please don't label us "idiots", we are not like you.
Originally posted by EnyalusProve that his lightning would be useless, hell ragnos with the uber sword and scepter couldn't defeat a JEDI KNIGHT known as jaden korr, so much for his l33t weapon.
He uses a Sith Sword for attacking. The swords are designed to attract and store the lightning and then let it out all at once when it strikes the next object. Palpatine's Force Lightning would be useless. Ragnos was clearly a skilled duelist, evidenced by the battles he won, the empire he held together, and the fact that he went unchallenged. Plus his gauntlets granted him increased melee skill.I don't know if he'd win or not, assuming this isn't DE Sidious. But I think its very possible that he could.
And defeating simus, an unknown means jack. And don't ramble about how he went unchallenged because i recall naga, the more powerful of the ancient sith(but lesser than ragnos) did absolutely nothing with the force but throw a brick and i am going to assume ragnos can throw 2 bricks 😉