Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
I would think, in terms of Christian theology, that Rape should be seen as one of the worse forms of assault. In the sense that it totally ignores rules on marriage and defies the apparent design of male/female unity...
indeed
I'm finding this hard to reconcile with the "has to get herself in the mood" mentality however
Originally posted by Bardock42
Ridiculous. Why is only the desire to have sex, but not the wish not to have it at the time to be considered under your idiotic rules?Did you somehow not think that one through at all?
What if your wife wanted to shit in your mouth, but you didn't. Whose "want" wins? And why? Randomly, or does God have exact rules written down somewhere.
****, you fundies are so delusionally insane and stupid, I can't get over it.
I'm going by what the Bible says, that's all.
It does say that we BOTH aren't to refuse each other. We are one flesh now, we don't just do whatever we want, when we want. We consider our marriage partner. (or NOT do what we don't want)
Just because I may have had a long day at work as a construction worker, tired and in the sun, and want nothing more than to eat and sleep, doesn't mean that I deny my wife if she's in the mood.
I have to prefer her over myself.
I don't expect you to agree, but that's the point. We're talking about what the bible says about marriage, not what the world thinks.
It also gives WAY more time and verses to saying that the man is to be like Christ and his love for the church: giving up everything, to the point of death if necessary, for his wife.
The man is to provide for her, make her happy, be a security for her and a support, love her unconditionally, be patient, kind, (all the nine qualities of love expressed in the New Testament) and be willing to love her more than his own body.
If the husband is fulfilling his role and not some jerk who comes home and plops his feet on the table asking for his dinner then wanting sex, why would a woman want to refuse him in the first place?
Men have alot to do in this area, by actually living as the bible instructs them to as husbands, then they create a much better atmosphere for sex with their wives.
But the point remains: if you're really going to live your life according to the Bible, then sex in marriage is what you do. Unless sick or in the middle of some very important matters that have to be dealt with, you don't have the right to deny your spouse (husband or wife), for the reason of "I just don't want to."
Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
I have no idea what hes talking about...what passages of the Bible is he using to support this view?
3 The husband should fulfill his wife’s sexual needs, and the wife should fulfill her husband’s needs. 4 The wife gives authority over her body to her husband, and the husband gives authority over his body to his wife.
5 Do not deprive each other of sexual relations, unless you both agree to refrain from sexual intimacy for a limited time so you can give yourselves more completely to prayer. Afterward, you should come together again so that Satan won’t be able to tempt you because of your lack of self-control.
Again, it's the bible and I dont' expect people with a secular viewpoint to agree. But that's how a person would live their marriage out if they were truly trying to follow the biblical guidelines.
Originally posted by sithsaber408
I'm going by what the Bible says, that's all.
Couldn't you choose a wiser and more moral book, instead?
Originally posted by sithsaber408
It does say that we BOTH aren't to refuse each other. We are one flesh now, we don't just do whatever we want, when we want. We consider our marriage partner. (or NOT do what we don't want)
Dude, you moron, not wanting and wanting is pretty much the same. So, you want to have sex, but your wife wants to sit on the couch and watch TV, which want wins? Why? One flesh you say, why just one flesh when you want to bang your wife?
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Just because I may have had a long day at work as a construction worker, tired and in the sun, and want nothing more than to eat and sleep, doesn't mean that I deny my wife if she's in the mood.
See, you want to eat and to sleep. Your wife wants sex. Why does sex take precedent. If you are "one flesh", she must be quite hungry and tired as well.
Originally posted by sithsaber408
I have to prefer her over myself.
And she has to prefer you, over herself, doesn't she? So you are going to eat and sleep, not have sex, right?
Originally posted by sithsaber408
I don't expect you to agree, but that's the point. We're talking about what the bible says about marriage, not what the world thinks.
No, we are talking about your stupidity involving that book you like so much. What you said can be applied to anything, you just apply it to sex though. Probably because you can't reason beyond anything your pastor told you.
Originally posted by sithsaber408
It also gives WAY more time and verses to saying that the man is to be like Christ and his love for the church: giving up everything, to the point of death if necessary, for his wife.
Also giving up sex? In case the partner doesn't want it?
Originally posted by sithsaber408
The man is to provide for her, make her happy, be a security for her and a support, love her unconditionally, be patient, kind, (all the nine qualities of love expressed in the New Testament) and be willing to love her more than his own body.
You are always talking about the wife wanting the sex, is that some little trick you learn in brainwashing school? Look, the scenario is, you want to **** your wife, she wants to do something else instead. What happens? Why?
Originally posted by sithsaber408
If the husband is fulfilling his role and not some jerk who comes home and plops his feet on the table asking for his dinner then wanting sex, why would a woman want to refuse him in the first place?
Thousands of reasons. But are you saying that if the guy is some jerk she may refuse him?
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Men have alot to do in this area, by actually living as the bible instructs them to as husbands, then they create a much better atmosphere for sex with their wives.
Blah, blah.
Originally posted by sithsaber408
But the point remains: if you're really going to live your life according to the Bible, then sex in marriage is what you do. Unless sick or in the middle of some very important matters that have to be dealt with, you don't have the right to deny your spouse (husband or wife), for the reason of "I just don't want to."
Where's the list of what matters are more important than sex? Please give me the complete list, signed by God.
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Again, it's the bible and I dont' expect people with a secular viewpoint to agree. But that's how a person would live their marriage out if they were truly trying to follow the biblical guidelines.
6 I say those things to you as my advice, not as a command. 7 I wish all of you were like me. But you each have your own gift from God. One has this gift. Another has that.
He is talking to the Corinthians about how to avoid sexual sins- i.e. sleeping with another man or woman.
Originally posted by Grand_Moff_GavI start to like you, you insane fundamentalist pig.
6 I say those things to you as my advice, not as a command. 7 I wish all of you were like me. But you each have your own gift from God. One has this gift. Another has that.He is talking to the Corinthians about how to avoid sexual sins- i.e. sleeping with another man or woman.
Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
6 I say those things to you as my advice, not as a command. 7 I wish all of you were like me. But you each have your own gift from God. One has this gift. Another has that.He is talking to the Corinthians about how to avoid sexual sins- i.e. sleeping with another man or woman.
Indeed he is. And in wanting to have good, healthy marriages that are avoiding sexual sins (or temptations), we follow the advice of the apostle Paul and fulfill each others needs and give authority of ourselves over to each other.
The scripture doesn't say, "Oh, and this word is only for these Corinthians in this place, at this time."
Rather, "All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It corrects us when we are wrong and teaches us to do what is right. God uses it to prepare and equip his people to do every good work." (2 Tim. 3:16-17)
Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
6 I say those things to you as my advice, not as a command. 7 I wish all of you were like me. But you each have your own gift from God. One has this gift. Another has that.He is talking to the Corinthians about how to avoid sexual sins- i.e. sleeping with another man or woman.
lol
that sounds a little better...
Originally posted by Bardock42
Catholic - fundamentalist, all looks the same from the outside.
Haha, fair enough.
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Indeed he is. And in wanting to have good, healthy marriages that are avoiding sexual sins (or temptations), we follow the advice of the apostle Paul and fulfill each others needs and give authority of ourselves over to each other.The scripture doesn't say, "Oh, and this word is only for these Corinthians in this place, at this time."
Rather, "All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It corrects us when we are wrong and teaches us to do what is right. God uses it to prepare and equip his people to do every good work." (2 Tim. 3:16-17)
Oh really...well this is interesting...Paul said he was just giving them advice not a command...he then advises that it would be better for man to be celibate than engage in marriage...so, have any male members of your congregation tried celibacy?
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Indeed he is. And in wanting to have good, healthy marriages that are avoiding sexual sins (or temptations), we follow the advice of the apostle Paul and fulfill each others needs and give authority of ourselves over to each other.
does a man need consent from his wife before having sex with her?
are their invalid reasons for not giving consent?
if a woman gives an invalid reason for not giving consent, can the man then force her to?
Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Haha, fair enough.Oh really...well this is interesting...Paul said he was just giving them advice not a command...he then advises that it would be better for man to be celibate than engage in marriage...so, have any male members of your congregation tried celibacy?
Nope. (well, the teens do until they're in their early-mid 20's and get married)
Paul also acknowledges at the beginning of the passage that:
"Yes, it is good to live a celibate life. 2 But because there is so much sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman should have her own husband."
And the very next words he writes are about fulfilling each other and giving each other authority over our bodies.
So we haven't got any celibate people, just ones that are in loving, committed marriages that avoid sexual dissatisfaction and temptation because they are full of sex!
Originally posted by inimalist
does a man need consent from his wife before having sex with her?are their invalid reasons for not giving consent?
if a woman gives an invalid reason for not giving consent, can the man then force her to?
From what Saint Paul says, he does- he says, in my interpretation, that sex is an act of deepest love and unity that the man and woman should always be willing to share with each other- he is also saying that they should utilize this love to protect their other half from falling into sin, by say going off to sleep with another person.
However, that doesn't mean that they should therefore always submit to each other- infact it says they MUST agree.
Originally posted by inimalist
does a man need consent from his wife before having sex with her?are their invalid reasons for not giving consent?
if a woman gives an invalid reason for not giving consent, can the man then force her to?
1.) Yes, of course
2.) Yup. "I don't feel like it" is an invalid one, if you take that scripture at face value. Sickness, caring for a child or some other important obligation (stuck late at work) would be valid reasons.
3.) No. He should prefer her over his own body and deal with it.
Listen, I'm not advocating rape here. What I would say is that she's not being a caring and considerate wife if she can have sex, is feeling great, and just won't.
She certainly isn't living according to the Bible and if a Christian in a Christian marriage, should have the issue looked at in counseling.