You're interpetation isn't based on what's there. You are saying:
1.) Get married to avoid sin.
2.) Don't deny to avoid sin.
3.) Wife wants to deny (sin), so husband should go along with it.
The bible doesn't say that. YOU are saying that and implying that it's what Paul meant.
All I get from paul is "Your bodies are not under your authority anymore."
Not, "well, if she's in sin you should give her the authority of her body back and give in."
Note: In the end, of course the man is to give in and prefer his wife over himself, and love her more than he does his own body. But that isn't living according to the Bible nor being a good spouse, according to the bible. (on the part of the wife)
In fact, it would be a direct contradiction of it, wheras the husband would be living in accordance with the Word by preferring her.
I think this is often how the situation resolves itself. 😛
My point was that "technically", the opening poster was right (in the first part) that it's sin if the woman is denying him sex for no good reason, or is using it as leverage to achieve some goal.
I did enjoy talking with you about this, and hope you know that I'm not trying to brow-beat you or put you down. I'm only interested at getting to the heart of what the truest, most literal application of the Word is.
Cheers!
I still think that if the woman isn't going to have sex the man should therefore agree- her from sin.
To be really honest, I don't think it is sinful for a woman to deny her husband sex, there is something in the back of my mind about this passage but I can't remember what...
Anyway, you didn't answer the question about Celibacy.
Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
I still think that if the woman isn't going to have sex the man should therefore agree- her from sin.To be really honest, I don't think it is sinful for a woman to deny her husband sex, there is something in the back of my mind about this passage but I can't remember what...
Anyway, you didn't answer the question about Celibacy.
1.) Well, yeah that's what usually ends up happening if the woman refuses. The man shouldn't force her. My point is that it's wrong for her to do that even she's feeling good and has no reason not to.
2.) To be really honest, the Bible disagrees with what you "think" or what "is in the back of your mind". The Word is clear that wives (and husbands) are not to deny each other unless they both agree to it and that each other gives up authority over their own body when they get married. Again, people still go against this, but it is sinful.
3.) Celibacy is great and I agree 100% that it will bring you closer to God than being married. I also agree with Paul that it's better to marry than to burn with lust and that celibacy (like prophecy or tongues) is a gift and not everybody has it. I certainly don't, and it's a rare person indeed who posesses that gift in a way that they aren't consumed with lust but rather live a deeper, fuller life in relationship with God and not with a spouse.
Cheers!
Originally posted by sithsaber408
1.) Well, yeah that's what usually ends up happening if the woman refuses. The man shouldn't force her. My point is that it's wrong for her to do that even she's feeling good and has no reason not to.
Just out of interest, does your Church permit the use of condoms?
Originally posted by sithsaber408
2.) To be really honest, the Bible disagrees with what you "think" or what "is in the back of your mind". The Word is clear that wives (and husbands) are not to deny each other unless they both agree to it and that each other gives up authority over their own body when they get married. Again, people still go against this, but it is sinful.
I don't really care if your interpretation disagrees with me. Also, despite the Bible asking women to stay with their husbands and be submissive- it is permissible for them to live apart. Again, what Paul says here only applys should a man be ready to submit to sexual desires and have an affair.
Originally posted by sithsaber408
3.) Celibacy is great and I agree 100% that it will bring you closer to God than being married. I also agree with Paul that it's better to marry than to burn with lust and that celibacy (like prophecy or tongues) is a gift and not everybody has it. I certainly don't, and it's a rare person indeed who posesses that gift in a way that they aren't consumed with lust but rather live a deeper, fuller life in relationship with God and not with a spouse.Cheers!
So, will you tell your children that they should really be celibate, but if they can't hack it they should get married?
Originally posted by sithsaber408what are you talking about? he has his relationship game down to an exact science.
The guy who wrote that little rant has no game. 😛
Do NOT Fall in Love with Me until I say so!If you are the type that can fall in love with a man over the internet, do not fall in love with me until I have declared that I want you to be mine. Until that time, use your mind to determine if I'm the kind of man you want for a husband for life and if you are the kind of girl I want for a wife. Falling in love severely clouds your judgment and I really do not want you to make a mistake. If you start thinking things like, "He is perfect." or "He's the most wonderful man." then go find someone to give you a hard slap across the face and throw an ice cold bucket of water on you. You are not thinking clearly. I tell you right now, I am by no means perfect nor am I all that wonderful. Besides, I have enough of a pride problem, I don't need you adding to it. LOL When you fall in love, you are blind and you build up in your mind such a grandiose view of me that I'm doomed to fail in your eyes once your infatuation has left you and you can again see clearly. I hate the idea of you gasping for breath and thinking: "What have I done." So please, stay objective and know that I am a flawed man just like all the rest. Of course, unlike most men, I know and an willing to admit it. I know you are flawed and we each will end up tolerating things in the other. You need a clear mind to seek out and determine if those things you find are tolerable. I will not change. Do not ever get the idea in your head that I will change. NO! Will not happen. I am who I am.
Didn't Jesus say "Love your wife like he loves the church?" Doesn't that mean that put another before yourself? Sacrifice?
Yet we could go into the OT where someone did naughty things......lol
Sleeping with their father in law........She disguised herself as a harlot...........and the father in law slept with her and it was A-OKAY WITH GOD.
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Well, yes and no.I'm referring to spite, but to me it's spite if the woman is feeling okay (not sick or headache or anything), has nothing pressing to do and is just hanging around the house that night, and the husband wants to have sex and she says no.
She needs to GET herself in the mood. It's part of being a wife.
It's ideas like this that make people hate Christians so much.
You're really not making my job any easier. 😐
It's simply good marriage counseling.
If you feel good and healthy, and don't have alot of stress/activities going on, and your spouse wants to have sex with you (be you the husband or the wife, it doesn't matter), then you should do it.
It creates frustration and resentment among marriage partners if the other won't have sex, "just because."
And in some cases, you do have what the opening poster referred to where a woman won't have sex with her husband until she gets this or that. Or he agrees to something she wants to do (repaint the house, I don't know.)
That's wrong.
The idea that the Bible is talking about (preferring one another, giving authority of yourself over to the other, not denying each other) is a good idea.
It's based on the idea that a marriage is a joining together of 2 people to become 1 flesh. And that means that you lose a bit of your individuality/selfishness for the other person.
It's centered around a mindset of "What am I doing for this person to love and support them?", rather than a mindset of "What is this person doing to make me happy?".
By all means, the husband should relent, and prefer his wife over his own body (like the bible says) so that he's not being a sinner. And I said that.
But also by all means, the wife should relent and not deny her husband, so that she's not being a sinner.
It goes both ways and there is give and take.
But in a "BIBLICAL LY BASED" marriage, it's wrong for either partner to deny each other "just cuz I don't feel like it."
And not everybody lives according to the Bible, I get that.
But if I'm "making your job harder", perhaps you should examine your job. If you reach people for Christ (I'm assuming that's what you mean) and they get saved, what are you going to tell them when it's time to apply the Bible to their marriage?
Oh, well you can ignore that part. (FAIL. Then they think the whole thing is full of it.)
Oh, well you have to follow these guidelines for marriage now that I kept from you earlier to convert you more easily. (FAIL. Then they think that YOU are full of it.)
Make sense?
"13 When Tamar was told, "Your father-in-law is on his way to Timnah to shear his sheep," 14 she took off her widow's clothes, covered herself with a veil to disguise herself, and then sat down at the entrance to Enaim, which is on the road to Timnah. For she saw that, though Shelah had now grown up, she had not been given to him as his wife.
15 When Judah saw her, he thought she was a prostitute, for she had covered her face. 16 Not realizing that she was his daughter-in-law, he went over to her by the roadside and said, "Come now, let me sleep with you."
"And what will you give me to sleep with you?" she asked. ..."Your seal and its cord, and the staff in your hand," she answered. So he gave them to her and slept with her, and she became pregnant by him. ."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Genesis 38
And god said "Blessed be, happy me ." 😱
25 But as they were taking her out to kill her, she sent this message to her father-in-law: “The man who owns these things made me pregnant. Look closely. Whose seal and cord and walking stick are these?”
26 Judah recognized them immediately and said, “She is more righteous than I am, because I didn’t arrange for her to marry my son Shelah.” And Judah never slept with Tamar again.
He didn't even know it was his daugther in law, then he sees the staff and seal, he recognizes his sin, and never does it again.
So no, God didn't approve and he knew it was wrong.
FAIL.
Originally posted by Deja~vu
And Judah felt it was okay to sleep with a prostitute too..........lolAnd she had his baby!! Whoa.
So what does that baby call the daddy? Daddy or Grandpa?
Aye, and have you read all that happens to Judah?
See how you are putting your own spin on things?
Like with Tamar, you figured that it meant Judah was cool with and so was God, though it doesn't say anything like that.
Judah was in the wrong and he knew it.
😂
Well, I'm gonna exit this thread, as nobody wants to hear me preach.
My only point: Was that the blog the opening poster showed us (while stupid for suggesting an affair is a woman's fault if she doesn't sleep with her husband) was correct on the point that biblically it's true men and women are supposed to give of themselves to each other and not withold/deny for no good reason.
Cheers!