Originally posted by MasterAshenVorYeah, at the expense of 350 trillion people.
Sir...If they had FAILED UTTERLY there would not be any books from the Legacy of the Force or Legacy Comic Books now would there?They Made a Peace with the Vong and Got their Planets Back....They had Set backs but it was not a failure....Failure is when you lose the war not a few battles.
Originally posted by MasterAshenVorYou're naming mostly isolated incidents. And you're ignoring what's been said.
Ok 3 Things...1 - The Empire are like Nazi's or Communists anyone who they even SUSPECT of being sympathetic to the Alliance or a Threat they ELIMINATE them from existance, Innocent or Not....with no trial and usually the Trials were Corrupt and one sided.
2nd - HAS ANYONE FORGOTTEN THE HUGE CELEBRATION ON COURASANT WHEN PALPATINE AND VADER WERE KILLED o.o and if you notice THEY PULLED DOWN THE STATUE OF PALPATINE infront of his Office.
3rd - Do you not understand that they destroyed Alderaan and all of itts Inhabitants innocent WEMON , CHILDREN , OLD PEOPLE , Men ect. plus without the Death Star they used Star Destroyers and TIE BOMBERS to bomb a civilization into Submission if it showed even a slight bit of Indapendance.
OH YEA and a 4th point.... THEY TORTURED PEOPLE and Killed Luke's Ant and Uncle o.o Brutality , Torture , Genocide , Slave Labor (The Wookies) , Emperialistic = Forcing other planets to side with them.
Now lets talk about the Rebel Alliance and the New Republic
4 points again ill do cons and pros for both actually.
New Republic - PRO's - Diplomatic Society , Freedom , Hired Labor , Volunteer Enlisted Soldiers , Liberators , Senate and Court Trials for Law Breakers , Helps Allies in Wars when possiable , Deosent Force Star Systems to join them.
New Republic - Cons - Corrupt Goverment - An Occasional Psychopath like Jacen Solo , and sometimes it lies but usually for the best interest of the General Population 1 Wrong 1000 Lives Saved
EMPIRE - Pro's - Efficent Governing , Cracks Down on Criminals and Smugglers , Large and Powerful Military thats all i can think of if there are other good things let me know o.o .
EMPIRE - Cons - Slave Labor , Conscription for Armies , Forced Alliances , Dictatorship , Cruelty and Concentration Camps for Aliens , Genocide , Forced Submission , Biased Trials , Corrupted Judges (if the convict even gets a trial) , Torture , They dont care if one of their men dies , Abandonment of Soldiers on Battlefield , Crappy Armor , Horriable Training for Soldiers (NEED TO AIM) , Crappy Non-Shielded Starships with minimum Weaponry (exception for Tie Defender and Tie Bomber) , OH AND GOT OWNED BY A MUCH SMALLER REBEL FORCE o.o.
SO OVERALL ILL GO WITH THE REPUBLIC AND REBEL ALLIANCE ANYTIME 😄
LONG LIVE THE ALLIANCE , LONG LIVE RED SQUADRON , LONG LIVE FREEDOM!!
The core of the Empire, that is to say that the leaders and such, were quite evil. The general populace and even the military personnel were not, just like in real life. And that "HUGE" celebration we see at the end of ROTJ was a celebration of the death of Palpatine and Vader, i.e core guys---evil guys.
And "THEY" did not destroy Alderaan, that was Tarkin and his posse, yet more core guys. Nothing to do with the lowly trooper or pilot.
And before you blame the entire Empire on the actions of a few (Owen and Beru's killers) take into consideration the beliefs and brainwashing enforced upon the stormtroopers and Imperial denizens.
Noone's arguing that the Empire wasn't the greater of all Evil's, just keep in mind that the actions of a few don't speak for the Quadrillions of people under its jurisdiction.
Tangible's got it right. The Empire's leadership and High Command were insanely evil. Palpatine, Pestage, Vader, Tarkin, Doriana, Dangor, Trachta, Zaarin, even Thrawn has committed terrible acts of deception and murder on a gross scale. But the rest? They were just following orders, though I suppose you could say the same regarding the SS. The point is that that was the nature of the beast: eat or be eaten.
As far as how the Empire was seen, only in the Outer Rim was the Empire's oppression visible. The Core and Inner Rim remained much the same, and Palpatine was considered to be a demi-god by most of the galaxy's denizens.
Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
Yeah...You realize, that that is every single man, women, and child on Earth...+62 thousand 500 times over?
If Sideous. Hell, if Thrawn had been around, that wouldn't have happened.
i disagree. It was the Jedi who learned how to fight the vong. The vong were wiping out all resistance before the galaxy adapted to their tech. That would have happened with the GE as well. The Jedi, their shadow bombs, and manipulation of dovin basals were a huge reason for the turning of the war. Unless Vader or Sidious had been on the front lines of every battle, the Galatic Empire would have been screwed.
Originally posted by truejedi
i disagree. It was the Jedi who learned how to fight the vong. The vong were wiping out all resistance before the galaxy adapted to their tech. That would have happened with the GE as well. The Jedi, their shadow bombs, and manipulation of dovin basals were a huge reason for the turning of the war. Unless Vader or Sidious had been on the front lines of every battle, the Galatic Empire would have been screwed.
The Vong however disagree with your opinion as stated here in Traitor
The warmaster only glared at him stonily.
"Jacen Solo is also the eldest son of the galaxy's leading clan. His mother was, for a time, the New Republic's Supreme Overlord..."
"For a time? How is this possible? Why would her successor let her live?"
"Does the warmaster truly wish a disquisition upon the New Republic's perverse system of government? It has to do with a bizarre concept called democracy, in which ruling power is given to whoever is most skillful at directing the herd instincts of the largest masses of their most ignorant citizens..."
"Their politics are your concern," Tsavong Lah growled. "Their fighting strength is mine."
"The two are, in this case, more closely related than the warmaster might suspect. For a quarter of a standard century, the Solo family has dominated galactic affairs of all kinds. Even the warmaster of the Jedi is none other than Jacen Solo's uncle. This uncle, Luke Skywalker, is popularly considered to have singlehandedly created the New Republic by defeating an older, much more rational government called the Empire. And, I might add, it is fortunate for us that he did; the Empire was vastly more organized, powerful, and potently militaristic. Lacking the internal divisions we have exploited so successfully in the New Republic, the Empire could have crushed our people utterly in their first encounter."
Tsavong Lah bristled. "The True Gods would never have allowed such a defeat!"
"Precisely my point," Nom Anor countered. "They didn't. Instead, Luke Skywalker, the Solos, and the Rebel Alliance destroyed the Empire, leaving the galaxy in a state of disarray, a power vacuum that we could exploit--for even then, the Solo clan served the True Gods without ever knowing it!"
For the first time, Tsavong Lah began to look interested.
Originally posted by truejedi
i disagree. It was the Jedi who learned how to fight the vong. The vong were wiping out all resistance before the galaxy adapted to their tech. That would have happened with the GE as well. The Jedi, their shadow bombs, and manipulation of dovin basals were a huge reason for the turning of the war. Unless Vader or Sidious had been on the front lines of every battle, the Galatic Empire would have been screwed.
No. Utterly and totally wrong. That's about as polite and succinct as I can make this. As the statement provided by Elite Hunter demonstrates, the Yuuzhan Vong (who had been observing galactic events for decades), were in veritable fear of the military might of the Galactic Empire. Nom Anor, one of the Vong's most proficient spies and manipulators, helped participate in the destruction of one of the major fragments of the Empire after the reborn Palpatine's final death, as seen in Crimson Empire.
Originally posted by Elite Hunter
The Vong however disagree with your opinion as stated here in TraitorThe warmaster only glared at him stonily.
"Jacen Solo is also the eldest son of the galaxy's leading clan. His mother was, for a time, the New Republic's Supreme Overlord..."
"For a time? How is this possible? Why would her successor let her live?"
"Does the warmaster truly wish a disquisition upon the New Republic's perverse system of government? It has to do with a bizarre concept called democracy, in which ruling power is given to whoever is most skillful at directing the herd instincts of the largest masses of their most ignorant citizens..."
"Their politics are your concern," Tsavong Lah growled. "Their fighting strength is mine."
"The two are, in this case, more closely related than the warmaster might suspect. For a quarter of a standard century, the Solo family has dominated galactic affairs of all kinds. Even the warmaster of the Jedi is none other than Jacen Solo's uncle. This uncle, Luke Skywalker, is popularly considered to have singlehandedly created the New Republic by defeating an older, much more rational government called the Empire. [B]And, I might add, it is fortunate for us that he did; the Empire was vastly more organized, powerful, and potently militaristic. Lacking the internal divisions we have exploited so successfully in the New Republic, the Empire could have crushed our people utterly in their first encounter."
Tsavong Lah bristled. "The True Gods would never have allowed such a defeat!"
"Precisely my point," Nom Anor countered. "They didn't. Instead, Luke Skywalker, the Solos, and the Rebel Alliance destroyed the Empire, leaving the galaxy in a state of disarray, a power vacuum that we could exploit--for even then, the Solo clan served the True Gods without ever knowing it!"
For the first time, Tsavong Lah began to look interested.
[/B]
I stand corrected: forgot about that opinion. Good use of a quote. 😎
Somehow I doubt that Tarkin had permission from the Emperor to blow up Alderaan. After all, the Emperor commissioned it. And who cares what the stormtroopers think; they are the mindless hordes trained to extend the Emperor's will across the galaxy.
The Empire is dag-nasty evil. You can't swing it any other way that parts of it weren't evil. Either you're duped into being evil or you're just plain evil in the Empire.
Originally posted by Tangible God
You're naming mostly isolated incidents. And you're ignoring what's been said.The core of the Empire, that is to say that the leaders and such, were quite evil. The general populace and even the military personnel were not, just like in real life. And that "HUGE" celebration we see at the end of ROTJ was a celebration of the death of Palpatine and Vader, i.e core guys---evil guys.
And "THEY" did not destroy Alderaan, that was Tarkin and his posse, yet more core guys. Nothing to do with the lowly trooper or pilot.
And before you blame the entire Empire on the actions of a few (Owen and Beru's killers) take into consideration the beliefs and brainwashing enforced upon the stormtroopers and Imperial denizens.
Noone's arguing that the Empire wasn't the greater of all Evil's, just keep in mind that the actions of a few don't speak for the Quadrillions of people under its jurisdiction.
That's exactly what I meant before.
Originally posted by Lt. ValerianLike American Capitalism
Actually, after reading Allegiance, I started thinkng about this, as well. The Empire, as a whole, as Gideon said, was not really evil. At least not before the destruction of Alderaan. The main characters in the book were stormtroopers who only joined the Empire with the sole purpose of helping others. Aiding people in need. They believed the Empire was righteous and just, until they started to become suspicious when their superiors began doing things which were not exactly noble, or even 'legal', and began questioning the Empire's motives. Probably the Empire's high ranking officers kept lower ranking ones, like stormtroopers and such, in the dark, making them believe the Empire was something it was not.
I assume many of the Empire's soldiers, pilots, etc. eventually left the Empire (or at least tried), after the destruction of Alderaan.
Re: Was the Empire really that bad?
Originally posted by Null ARC Avis
Aside from the whole "We'll blow up your planet!!!!" thing, was the empire truly awful? The actions of the emperor and Vader effected very few being really, and the empire did maintain order, generally, and we much more productive than the corrupt republic. So i wonder, was the empire truly an oppressive regime, or was thata just rebel propaganda?
The Emperor was an evil Sith Lord, what do you think. And it did seem as if his regime was sexist and racist. (Or speciists, if that's even a word.)
Look at Vader, he'd kill you on the spot for stuff that you'd only get reprimanded for as an officer.
("Cue Vader voice"😉
Vader: Why didn't you show up for work yesterday, officer.
Officer: I called in. I was feeling unwell, mi-lord. My apologies.
Vader: "Points finger" Do not let it happen again. No disintegrations.
Sidious and Vader nonchalantly killed and would've still killed anyone that seemed a threat or an opposition. Sidious ruled with fear and an iron fist. And he built many Death Stars for those planets that may've had points of views different than his.
Corusaunt's a nice place to visit, but i wouldn't wanna live there.