Dr. Doom vs Thanos

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Defeating Galactus is more impressive than getting fried and humbled by Galactus and then aiding him in countering the threat of the Hunger. Dr. Doom not being able to control the Beyonder's power the first time around, does not change the fact that Thanos has never personally beaten a foe of that power level. Beyonder also had the help of all the Marvel heroes in taking the power back. Thanos' inability to hold onto his power comes from within, not without. His subconscious desires were not overcome in Marvel: The End, because as it is made clear, he was being inexorably guided by TOAA the whole time.

Dr. Doom has more experience with time travel and you know it. Dr. Doom has also built superior tech to Thanos in one very distinct area, the Power Cosmic Siphon Harness. He can absorb the Power Cosmic on his own, replicate it, imbue himself and others with it. Thanos could not do that, even with Annihilus' vast resources, as clearly shown in Annihilation. The best he could do after weeks of study was divert Galactus' feeding of power into power cells. Dr. Doom already did that in Secret Wars without any help in several hours time, except he imbued it into himself and punked Galactus personally, rather than have T&A do it for him.

Thanos did not succeed alone in Infinity War. Indeed, he did it with the help of Galactus, Adam Warlock, Mephisto and Earth's heroes. Dr. Doom only had Kang, who he ended up getting rid of anyway. I'm sure that had TOAA picked Dr. Doom to fix the flaw in marvel: The End, Dr. Doom would have succeeded whereas Thanos would have failed. Luck of the draw.

Dr. Doom has also humbled his greatest nemesis, Reed Richards, several times. Thanos has never humbled Adam Warlock.

Dr. Doom is underrated and is clearly superior in enough areas and feats to make this a closer fight than most people would care to think. And you know that as well.

Thanos made his own choices and wasnt forced into anything. He was manipulated because he was needed to heal the marvel u. When did Thanos subconsciously defeat himself in that story arc? he wasnt controlled into doing anything but manipulated and the choice was his and his alone in the end. This was something Doom was obviously not chosen for. Thanos has experience with time as well. Either way it wouldnt grant Doom the victory. You already gave Thanos the win.

I find it funny that you are taking a ff4 nemesis and comparing him to Thanos. Sure,Doom is great and all,but Thanos is on a whole other level.

Doom punked Galactus due to the circumstances of secret wars. Post continued.....

Doom = Thanos lite

Galactus easily took away Doom's power cosmic when he tried to flee earth with it,am I right?

Thanos opposed Magus with warlock and the rest. They took on warlock with the ig minus the reality gem which trumps the cosmic cubes Doom took him on with.

No,TOAA obviously chose Thanos because he could do it while Doom couldnt. Best man for the job,it just happened to be Thanos.

Thanos killed Warlock. There were other outside forces all aligned against Thanos when his ghost returned to take Thanos out. Warlock also had nothing to do with Thanos and his loss of the ig. Without Thanos defeating himself,warlock couldnt have done a thing. He knew Thanos well but couldnt defeat him on his own or with all the help he gathered against him.

Thanos can create clones that have been seen to dwarf the pathetic power known as cosmic. One clone almost enginered the destruction of asgard and another involved higher end abstracts in celestial abyss.

This isnt even close imo. Thanos wins.

Smart money is on Thanos

Thats where i'd place my bet

Originally posted by quanchi112
So you think in a straight up battle that Doom could beat Galactus? Otherwise why bring it up? Im giving you the benefit of the doubt on this one and counting the secret wars feat.

Thanos made his own choices and wasnt forced into anything. He was manipulated because he was needed to heal the marvel u. When did Thanos subconsciously defeat himself in that story arc? he wasnt controlled into doing anything but manipulated and the choice was his and his alone in the end. This was something Doom was obviously not chosen for. Thanos has experience with time as well. Either way it wouldnt grant Doom the victory. You already gave Thanos the win.

I find it funny that you are taking a ff4 nemesis and comparing him to Thanos. Sure,Doom is great and all,but Thanos is on a whole other level.

Doom punked Galactus due to the circumstances of secret wars. Post continued.....

You're right that Thanos made his choice in the conclusion. But everything leading up to that choice was the TOAA inexorably guiding him to that personal choice.

I did not compare Reed Richards to Thanos. But if I am not mistaken, Reed Richards has saved the universe as nearly often as Adam Warlock has. Dr. Doom may not play in the same yard as Thanos does, but relatively speaking, he does better against his personal and eternal nemesis. Simple as that. And when Dr. Doom does play on a cosmic scale, he is arguably just as impressive.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Galactus easily took away Doom's power cosmic when he tried to flee earth with it,am I right?

Thanos opposed Magus with warlock and the rest. They took on warlock with the ig minus the reality gem which trumps the cosmic cubes Doom took him on with.

No,TOAA obviously chose Thanos because he could do it while Doom couldnt. Best man for the job,it just happened to be Thanos.

Thanos killed Warlock. There were other outside forces all aligned against Thanos when his ghost returned to take Thanos out. Warlock also had nothing to do with Thanos and his loss of the ig. Without Thanos defeating himself,warlock couldnt have done a thing. He knew Thanos well but couldnt defeat him on his own or with all the help he gathered against him.

Thanos can create clones that have been seen to dwarf the pathetic power known as cosmic. One clone almost enginered the destruction of asgard and another involved higher end abstracts in celestial abyss.

This isnt even close imo. Thanos wins.

Thanos/Mephisto/Galactus/Warlock/heroes vs Magus w/ incomplete IG is more impressive than Doom/Kang vs Magus w/ CCU's? Your opinion.

TOAA choosing Thanos because he was better suited is speculation.

I never said Warlock constantly defeats Thanos, I'm saying Thanos has never overcome or humbled Warlock.

Doom has stolen power greater than the Power Cosmic.

If Thanos outclassed Dr. Doom in every area, you'd be right that it isn't close. But he doesn't. You can continue to underrate Dr. Doom and ignore instances where Dr. Doom is clearly Thanos' superior. You are entitled to your opinion.

One question Dumb..... How can you say he's never overcome or humbled Warlock when he killed him? I would say that is overcoming and humbling all wrapped up in one wouldn't you?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
One question Dumb..... How can you say he's never overcome or humbled Warlock when he killed him? I would say that is overcoming and humbling all wrapped up in one wouldn't you?

If you or anybody could refresh me on the particulars of Thanos/Warlock, by all means. I've been mistaken before.

You make this thread with just about anybody else against Doom and I'd back Doom. I can't in this one, Doom is Thanos without the superhuman parts, he can't beat Thanos. Thanos is just made superior.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

Beyonder tied the loop using 616 Dr. Doom as the ribbon. Beyonder did not guide either of the Dr. Doom's actions in anything. Which is clear because he acknowledges that Doom had bested him. He just sent him back to play out the events that had already occurred.

When Captain America confronted Korvac and Red Skull, Korvac reset history to place Captain America back into himself before he murdered Red Skull. The original murder of Red Skull had allowed the Cosmic Cube's power to flow into Korvac. Captain America changed that and simply hit Red Skull, which resulted in Red Skull killing Korvac. With this roughly analogous situation, where a character sends another character back in time to play out events, your logic suggests that the character doing the sending is responsible for everything that happens thereafter. With Cap/Korvac/Red Skull then, Korvac ended up causing his own destruction. That interpretation makes sense. Because things changed because of Korvac.

But had events played out exactly the same to close a time loop and Cap had killed Red Skull again, you can hardly suggest that Cap never really killed Red Skull and the feat is not really his because that Korvac used a loopy time travel plot device.

616 Doom is only getting the credit here cause Beyonder manipulated his involvement.

So imo, yea, I'm not giving 616 Doom that feat.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

We can disagree on this,
but as it was literally 616 Dr. Doom in Secret Wars
without any actual guidance/manipulation on Beyonder's part

It became 616 Doom solely because of the Beyonder's manipulation.

Beyonder literally placed 616 Doom, in the future Doom's place,
so without a doubt, 616 Doom would've had no connection to the feat otherwise.

Originally posted by Mr Master

The Dr Doom that was blinked onto Beyonder's battleworld was not 616 Doom:

While the mind/spirit of present day 616 Doom of 1984
was back on Earth.

In fact, up until that point in #288,

616 Doom had never met or seen the Beyonder:

Here is Doom himself, recounting the Event:

It was Beyonder who sent him back to Secret Wars,
it was then ... that 616 Doom became the cat who stole his power,
a feat that belonged to and was already played out by someone else. 😬

We must admit, this feat (concerning 616 Doom's involvement)
is being manipulated by the Beyonder.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Don't put words into my mouth. Doom has humbled Galactus, twice. Once by surprise, the other with prep. Thanos never did so. Thanos got b1tchslapped and deferred to T&A to do the job. Doom also managed to unlock the secrets to utilizing the Power Cosmic from his heralds and Galactus himself, something Thanos failed to do. There is nothing else in those statements other than that.

You're right that Thanos made his choice in the conclusion. But everything leading up to that choice was the TOAA inexorably guiding him to that personal choice.

I did not compare Reed Richards to Thanos. But if I am not mistaken, Reed Richards has saved the universe as nearly often as Adam Warlock has. Dr. Doom may not play in the same yard as Thanos does, but relatively speaking, he does better against his personal and eternal nemesis. Simple as that. And when Dr. Doom does play on a cosmic scale, he is arguably just as impressive.

When did Thanos get bitchslapped in annihilation by Galactus? If I recall correctly he didnt take him on directly. Thanos sent someone else to do his dirty work for him. Brilliant. Thanos also saved Galactus the only time he directly engaged him with a blast to get his attention. Thanos wasnt there to punk Galactus but instead was there to try and avoid the Hunger's entry in our verse. Galactus refused to listen and Thanos cleaned up his mess. When Thanos has wanted Galactus,he had him captured in annihilation. Fact.

Ok and? When has Doom ever held on to such power without having to lose it anyways? Thanos survived that transformation due to his willpower and his prior experience with awesome power.

When has Warlock got the better of him alone? If Im not mistaken Warlock always had more allies when he faced off against Thanos. Thanos also helped him defeat his future self the Magus the first time around.

Thanos and warlock in terms of prep are on a whole other level than reed and doom.

Originally posted by geshien
Both get two days prep.

Who wins?

Thanos wins again.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Dr. Doom flew into the barrier that kept Silver Surfer from escaping Earth.

Thanos/Mephisto/Galactus/Warlock/heroes vs Magus w/ incomplete IG is more impressive than Doom/Kang vs Magus w/ CCU's? Your opinion.

TOAA choosing Thanos because he was better suited is speculation.

I never said Warlock constantly defeats Thanos, I'm saying Thanos has never overcome or humbled Warlock.

Doom has stolen power greater than the Power Cosmic.

If Thanos outclassed Dr. Doom in every area, you'd be right that it isn't close. But he doesn't. You can continue to underrate Dr. Doom and ignore instances where Dr. Doom is clearly Thanos' superior. You are entitled to your opinion.

Magus was out for the ig not out for the cosmic cubes. Much more impressive.

How is it? Both were actively seeking it. You are telling me the TOAA might choose the worse of the two for the job? Really?

Thanos has stolen and kept greater power than Doom imo. The bad guy always has to lose it at some point.

I dont think its close. They operate in two totally different leagues. Theres earth threats and then there are cosmic threats. Doom is very good but he just isnt on Thanos' level. Thanos succeeds where Doom fails.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Technically it was the non-existent future Doom that "bested" him.

616 Doom is only getting the credit here cause Beyonder manipulated his involvement.

So imo, yea, I'm [b]not giving 616 Doom that feat.

That's not exactly true friend.

It became 616 Doom solely because of the Beyonder's manipulation.

Beyonder literally placed 616 Doom, in the future Doom's place,
so without a doubt, 616 Doom would've had no connection to the feat otherwise.

You know this good friend.

Here is Doom himself, recounting the Event:

It was Beyonder who sent him back to Secret Wars,
it was then ... that 616 Doom became the cat who stole his power,
a feat that belonged to and was already played out by someone else. 😬

We must admit, this feat (concerning 616 Doom's involvement)
is being manipulated by the Beyonder. [/B]

Originally posted by quanchi112
I am not familiar with the second time that Doom has humbled Galactus. When was this?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Doom has become god-like in less than a month in the storyline, Fantastic Four: The World's Greatest Comic Magazine. The links in the Dr. Doom respect thread are broken for this particular adventure of his. Back in 2001, Marvel decided to pay homage to Stan Lee and Jack Kirby and create a story where Doom and the FF and really, all of Marvel Earth got involved. Over two dozen writers and artists collaborated to produce the 12-issue miniseries. It's canon, and according to the authors and editors in the letter columns, takes place right before Fantastic Four #100:

Doom knew about Cap's first battle with the Red Skull and the Cosmic Cube and retrieves it via Time Platform:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Doom%20Fights/DoomCosmicCube01WorldsGreatest4.jpg

He then goes on to steal the Sacred Helix of Randac which powers the Terrigen Crystals from Attilan:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Doom%20Fights/DoomCosmicCube02WorldsGreatest5.jpg

Picking up information from Human Torch, he confronts the Watcher and steals his Ultimate Machine, which is a repository of the Watchers' entire accumulated knowledge:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Doom%20Fights/DoomCosmicCube03WorldsGreatest6.jpg

He then travels to the Negative Zone to steal Annihilus' Cosmic Control Rod:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Doom%20Fights/DoomCosmicCube04WorldsGreatest9.jpg

He combines the Cosmic Control Rod, the Cosmic Cube and his Power Cosmic Siphon Harness and confronts Galactus and takes his power by force:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Doom%20Fights/DoomCosmicCube05WorldsGreatest10.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Doom%20Fights/DoomCosmicCube06.jpg

Here, Reed explains that Doom used the Sacred Helix of Randac to alter himself to withstand the overwhelming effects of using the Ultimate Machine. The Leader's mind had been completely overwhelmed when he tried to access it. Using the knowledge gained from it, he was able to figure out that the Cosmic Control Rod + Cosmic Cube + Power Cosmic Siphon Harness would be enough to drain Galactus of his power. And Doom finally starts the fighting:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Doom%20Fights/DoomCosmicCube07WorldsGreatest11.jpg

The American military, SHIELD, Avengers, X-Men, Thor, Asgard and Odin, Namor and Atlantis:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Doom%20Fights/DoomCosmicCube08.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Doom%20Fights/DoomCosmicCube09.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Doom%20Fights/DoomCosmicCube10.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Doom%20Fights/DoomCosmicCube11.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Doom%20Fights/DoomCosmicCube12.jpg

Where's Reed during all this? Using Doom's own invention, an ionic inanimate matter converter, powered by the Silver Surfer, Reed summons classic Marvel monsters to fight Doom. Black Bolt and the Inhumans join the fight as well:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Doom%20Fights/DoomCosmicCube13WorldsGreatest12.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Doom%20Fights/DoomCosmicCube14.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Doom%20Fights/DoomCosmicCube15.jpg

That blasted Reed Richards takes advantage of Doom's distraction with his newfound hunger and his arrogance to retrieve the Cosmic Cube and undo his transformation:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Doom%20Fights/DoomCosmicCube16.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Doom%20Fights/DoomCosmicCube17.jpg

Reed goes on to erase the events from the entire world's memory with the Cosmic Cube. Only Galactus, Uatu and Reed remember what happened. Not bad for a few week's work. The above scans don't chronicle even a third of the things Doom did during the entire mini-series, but they ought to convey the spirit of the adventure. The epic dialogue from the last five scans comes from Stan Lee himself who penned the 12th issue.

Originally posted by quanchi112
When did Thanos get bitchslapped in annihilation by Galactus? If I recall correctly he didnt take him on directly. Thanos sent someone else to do his dirty work for him. Brilliant. Thanos also saved Galactus the only time he directly engaged him with a blast to get his attention. Thanos wasnt there to punk Galactus but instead was there to try and avoid the Hunger's entry in our verse. Galactus refused to listen and Thanos cleaned up his mess. When Thanos has wanted Galactus,he had him captured in annihilation. Fact.

Ok and? When has Doom ever held on to such power without having to lose it anyways? Thanos survived that transformation due to his willpower and his prior experience with awesome power.

When has Warlock got the better of him alone? If Im not mistaken Warlock always had more allies when he faced off against Thanos. Thanos also helped him defeat his future self the Magus the first time around.

Thanos and warlock in terms of prep are on a whole other level than reed and doom.

When has Thanos ever held onto power? The same criticism you use to deride Doom can be thrown back unto Thanos two-fold since all he does is gain power and lose it. TOAA guided him to gain THOTU so that he could fix the flaw. There was no other point to the story. Beyonder never guided Doom to steal his power. He opposed Doom's efforts and had to take it back by exploiting the situation.

Reed's top feat of prep is probably on par with Thanos' and Warlock's top feats.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yeah flew right smack dab into it. Wasnt smart enough to figure a way around it.

Magus was out for the ig not out for the cosmic cubes. Much more impressive.

How is it? Both were actively seeking it. You are telling me the TOAA might choose the worse of the two for the job? Really?

Thanos has stolen and kept greater power than Doom imo. The bad guy always has to lose it at some point.

I dont think its close. They operate in two totally different leagues. Theres earth threats and then there are cosmic threats. Doom is very good but he just isnt on Thanos' level. Thanos succeeds where Doom fails.

Magus did more with the CCU's than he did with the incomplete IG.

I'm telling you that it is speculation that Thanos was "the better person" for the job. TOAA could have easily just decided that Thanos ought to be punished and taught a lesson because of his sordid past and ignominious defeats.

THOTU meant for Thanos to have that power. Thanos even admits that he was given the power. Doom had to best the Beyonder to gain his power. A great deal of people feel that Beyonder's power is over THOTU's power or at the very least, it's equal. Considering that Doom was never selected for Beyonder's power and had to take it by force, it's very easily arguable that Doom outperformed Thanos in the "ultimate feat" department.

Thanos has never succeeded in anything, except finding acceptance with Death... by dying. Doom has already achieved his three top personal goals, some of them, several times: 1) free his mother's soul; 2) rule the world; and 3) defeat Reed Richards. Thanos may operate on a different league, but that doesn't solely determine whether one character stomps another with no effort. Terrax has destroyed/ruled over several worlds, even before becoming a herald. Didn't stop him from getting curbstomped by Sentry, an Earth-based hero. One of the most powerful characters in the greater Marvel omniverse is a 616 Earth-based hero, Scarlet Witch. The important thing is, when Doom has played on a cosmic scale, he has arguably performed just as well and usually with less. This is not a stomp.

thanos 7/10

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Thanos got b1tchslapped during the Hunger storyline. Thanos sent someone to immobilize Galactus so that he could study him with the Negative Zone's resources for weeks. He still couldn't break the secret of the Power Cosmic. I've already gone over how Doom has humbled Galactus on his own, twice, and cracked the secret with less time and fewer resources.

When has Thanos ever held onto power? The same criticism you use to deride Doom can be thrown back unto Thanos two-fold since all he does is gain power and lose it. TOAA guided him to gain THOTU so that he could fix the flaw. There was no other point to the story. Beyonder never guided Doom to steal his power. He opposed Doom's efforts and had to take it back by exploiting the situation.

Reed's top feat of prep is probably on par with Thanos' and Warlock's top feats.

Sending someone else to do your dirty work is brilliant. How many times does Doom send doombots all over creation to accomplish tasks for him. Doom didnt humble Galactus under his own power.

Thanos doesnt lose power because he cant handle it. He must lose it somehow but isnt due to him being simply overwhelmed like Doom was. TOAA selected Thanos because he was the man for the job,not Doom. Doom couldnt handle the power imo.

Reed has a shit ton of appearances but isnt the same prep god that Warlock is. Thats the point.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Doom didn't know about it.

Magus did more with the CCU's than he did with the incomplete IG.

I'm telling you that it is speculation that Thanos was "the better person" for the job. TOAA could have easily just decided that Thanos ought to be punished and taught a lesson because of his sordid past and ignominious defeats.

THOTU meant for Thanos to have that power. Thanos even admits that he was given the power. Doom had to best the Beyonder to gain his power. A great deal of people feel that Beyonder's power is over THOTU's power or at the very least, it's equal. Considering that Doom was never selected for Beyonder's power and had to take it by force, it's very easily arguable that Doom outperformed Thanos in the "ultimate feat" department.

Thanos has never succeeded in anything, except finding acceptance with Death... by dying. Doom has already achieved his three top personal goals, some of them, several times: 1) free his mother's soul; 2) rule the world; and 3) defeat Reed Richards. Thanos may operate on a different league, but that doesn't solely determine whether one character stomps another with no effort. Terrax has destroyed/ruled over several worlds, even before becoming a herald. Didn't stop him from getting curbstomped by Sentry, an Earth-based hero. One of the most powerful characters in the greater Marvel omniverse is a 616 Earth-based hero, Scarlet Witch. The important thing is, when Doom has played on a cosmic scale, he has arguably performed just as well and usually with less. This is not a stomp.

Maguc still sought out the ig because it was more powerful than the ig. Thats the point.

No,thats ridiculous imo. Why would TOAA not pick the best man for the job when the fate of all reality hung in the balance. Makes no sense to me.

1)He freed his mother's soul with Strange and the Surfer if my memory serves me correct. Dont pass it off like he did it alone. Thanos has tricked meph on his own and has used him as his own personal lackey during the ig series.

Thanos is in the big leagues while Doom is a triple a player who sometimes gets called up to the majors.
2)Rule the world,samll goal for a small mind(Thanos would never limit himself to such a small goal).

3)Defeat reed richards. Ok good for him,how many times has he lost against reed richards? Thanos has killed Warlock, has Doom ever killed Reed?

I see all these earth based threats that you are comparing to cosmic threats. Why do this to yourself when Thanos would stomp Doom. Those are the two characters that we are discussing. the most powerful cosmic threats dwarf the most powerful earth based threats anyways.

Its funny ho wyou say Thanos hasnt achieved any of his goals. Sure,Doom ruled the world but lost it just like Thanos lost the ig,etc. he still thinned the herd,got the cosmic cube,acquired the heart,is at death's side currently,etc. His success rate is off the charts. The same storylines with Doom and Thanos in has Thanos looking superior because he is.

Its a stomp.