Originally posted by Desaad
I urge you to take a look at the Neron respect thread I did; we have instances of Asmodel being tortured by Neron AND of Neron throwing him around and ordering him around in hell.Its pretty clear that Neron is more powerful than Asmodel.
Also, what is this recent low showing you are referring to?
Agreed Asmodel is very powerful but he doesn't hold a candle to Neron.
Originally posted by Galan007Did he?
mxy, for one. vin
Originally posted by DesaadHis power was lowered enough for BP to rip his heart out, due to BP's tech.
In what way was Meph depowered?I agree that the retconning history is extremely impressive, and while not up to that par I would counter with Neron undoing all the damage done to a city and bringing back all those that had died.
Also, Hal Jordan (Spectre) did something similar in the Flash series, and he was less powerful than the Corrigan Spectre who was tossed aside/manipulated by Neron...
Originally posted by Desaad
I urge you to take a look at the Neron respect thread I did; we have instances of Asmodel being tortured by Neron AND of Neron throwing him around and ordering him around in hell.Its pretty clear that Neron is more powerful than Asmodel.
Also, what is this recent low showing you are referring to?
This is of course after the presence sentenced him when he tried to challenge him. Prior to that, Neron walked on eggshells around Asmodel.
It certainly had nothing to do with neron being more powerful (since he isnt.)
Nerons low showing was losing to Ralph Elongated man Dibny.
Originally posted by Avlon
This is of course after the presence sentenced him when he tried to challenge him. Prior to that, Neron walked on eggshells around Asmodel.It certainly had nothing to do with neron being more powerful (since he isnt.)
There is, of course, no evidence that Asmodel's power level decreased.
And while Neron never openly attacked Asmodel prior to the sentencing, this doesn't mean he 'walked on eggshells' as you say. In point of fact, Neron chose to manipulate rather than confront almost EVERYONE he came into contact with. No matter how weak the villain or hero may have been.
Nerons low showing was losing to Ralph Elongated man Dibny.
Hardly a low showing as he was able to escape the spell that held him, which was specifically in Fate's tower, made by a wishing gun AND he killed Dibny AND he showed his utter ownership of Felix Faust who is powerful in his own right (as you can see in my respect thread).
Being outsmarted by someone like Ralph is a far cry from getting your heart ripped out by Black Panther, or physically losing to top tier or below heroes.
Originally posted by Desaad
There is, of course, no evidence that Asmodel's power level decreased.
Really?
"What have you done with my powers?"
"Lord Giveth, and the Lord Taketh away."
Looks like a depowering to me. Then God punished Asmodel which is where Neron comes in.
Originally posted by Desaad
And while Neron never openly attacked Asmodel prior to the sentencing, this doesn't mean he 'walked on eggshells' as you say. In point of fact, Neron chose to manipulate rather than confront almost EVERYONE he came into contact with. No matter how weak the villain or hero may have been.
Neron was Asmodels underling the whole time. He just bailed once the presence got involved and Damned Azzy.
Originally posted by Desaad
Hardly a low showing as he was able to escape the spell that held him, which was specifically in Fate's tower, made by a wishing gun AND he killed Dibny AND he showed his utter ownership of Felix Faust who is powerful in his own right (as you can see in my respect thread).
Which to make a long story short...means that he was owned by a human who's still a novice in magic. The trickster was tricked and thus it was a...
...Low showing. It's not like he was able to get out right away...he was trapped for a while. Faust was also desperate in that arc and hardly at his best...
Originally posted by Desaad
Being outsmarted by someone like Ralph is a far cry from getting your heart ripped out by Black Panther, or physically losing to top tier or below heroes.
Losing to either Ralph OR Black Panther is a low showing when you are supposed to be the ruler of hell...
Originally posted by Avlon
Really?"What have you done with my powers?"
"Lord Giveth, and the Lord Taketh away."Looks like a depowering to me. Then God punished Asmodel which is where Neron comes in.
I took that to mean his powers over the bull host, since he specifically mentions his status.
Neron was Asmodels underling the whole time. He just bailed once the presence got involved and Damned Azzy.
I would argue that he was manipulating Asmodel the entire time, and ultimately got what he wanted...Asmodel in his torture chambers.
Which to make a long story short...means that he was owned by a human who's still a novice in magic. The trickster was tricked and thus it was a......Low showing. It's not like he was able to get out right away...he was trapped for a while. Faust was also desperate in that arc and hardly at his best...
Comparing this showing, in which he was TRICKED and which ultimately was UNSUCCESSFUL to being beaten by the Surfer, Thor, Adam Warlock, Daredevil and Black Panther in his own realm is disingenuous.
The difference being that what THEY accomplished they did through physical means, and thusly are physical low showings.
Ralph outsmarted Neron - momentarily - but that is a different issue when we are talking about a straight vs fight.
Losing to either Ralph OR Black Panther is a low showing when you are supposed to be the ruler of hell...
Intelligence wise, yes (although, again, Neron escaped and killed Ralph Dibny AND Ralph was using powerful magical items) but not physically, which is all that is relevant for this type of battle.
Originally posted by DesaadThats because Asmodel's powers were taken from him.
I urge you to take a look at the Neron respect thread I did; we have instances of Asmodel being tortured by Neron AND of Neron throwing him around and ordering him around in hell.Its pretty clear that Neron is more powerful than Asmodel.
Also, what is this recent low showing you are referring to?
Originally posted by Desaad
I took that to mean his powers over the bull host, since he specifically mentions his status.
No, you took it to mean that Neron overpowered a fully powered asmodel. The scan clearly proved you wrong. Torturing a damned/depowered Asmodel is hardly a feat.
Originally posted by Desaad
I would argue that he was manipulating Asmodel the entire time, and ultimately got what he wanted...Asmodel in his torture chambers.
You could try, but there is nothing to suggest it. Neron simply bails and betrays once the presence is involved. Until then, he's a lackey.
Originally posted by Desaad
Comparing this showing, in which he was TRICKED and which ultimately was UNSUCCESSFUL to being beaten by the Surfer, Thor, Adam Warlock, Daredevil and Black Panther in his own realm is disingenuous.The difference being that what THEY accomplished they did through physical means, and thusly are physical low showings.
Ralph outsmarted Neron - momentarily - but that is a different issue when we are talking about a straight vs fight.
Either way, it's a low showing...I could care less how it was accomplished... with tech or with novice magic. Humans still owned Lords of Hell.
Originally posted by Desaad
Intelligence wise, yes (although, again, Neron escaped and killed Ralph Dibny AND Ralph was using powerful magical items) but not physically, which is all that is relevant for this type of battle.
Black Panther didn't use intelligence to get over on Mephisto?
Originally posted by Avlon
No, you took it to mean that Neron overpowered a fully powered asmodel. The scan clearly proved you wrong. Torturing a damned/depowered Asmodel is hardly a feat.
You're misunderstanding what I just said.
I'm taking that scan, which you posted, to mean that his powers as the leader of the bull host were taken from him.
If a general is removed from command, his powers of command are removed.
His physical abilities are no less great.
Your interpretation may indeed be correct -- but it may not be.
You could try, but there is nothing to suggest it. Neron simply bails and betrays once the presence is involved. Until then, he's a lackey.
The end result of the entire affair goes in Neron's favor, and no one elses. That alone is enough to imply that he had an ulterior motive throughout, just as Mephisto did throughout the Infinity Gauntlet affair (the difference being that Mephisto was unsuccessful).
In addition, his smug demeanor, self assured even as he took Asmodel's 'orders', the fact that he was consistently influencing him (he suggested Asmodel should send someone to kill Zauriel, even predicted that he would agree...which brought about the resistance...)...all these things contribute to my interpretation.
Either way, it's a low showing...I could care less how it was accomplished... with tech or with novice magic. Humans still owned Lords of Hell.
Tech means that it is within T'challa's ability to create. That his technology was, in a sense, able to overpower the ever powerful Mephisto.
A mystical weapon of unknown power level doing it is totally different.A normal man with the Spear of Destiny can defeat the Spectre, take control of any hero that enters Europe, etc.
You'd have a point of Ralph started studying up on magic and cast the spell himself.
Black Panther didn't use intelligence to get over on Mephisto?
Sure, strategic intelligence played a part in it. But so too did his ability to build a machine, apparently, which translates to physical power and is quantifiable.
