Originally posted by Desaad
You're misunderstanding what I just said.I'm taking that scan, which you posted, to mean that his powers as the leader of the bull host were taken from him.
If a general is removed from command, his powers of command are removed.
His physical abilities are no less great.
Your interpretation may indeed be correct -- but it may not be.
Had he said "I've been stripped of my rank!" then I could see that. It's obvious that he says "My powers" to which Zauriel reponds that the lord can take them away.
Originally posted by Desaad
The end result of the entire affair goes in Neron's favor, and no one elses. That alone is enough to imply that he had an ulterior motive throughout, just as Mephisto did throughout the Infinity Gauntlet affair (the difference being that Mephisto was unsuccessful).
He bailed when the presence got involved. Nothing more.
Originally posted by Desaad
In addition, his smug demeanor, self assured even as he took Asmodel's 'orders', the fact that he was consistently influencing him (he suggested Asmodel should send someone to kill Zauriel, even predicted that he would agree...which brought about the resistance...)...all these things contribute to my interpretation.
He was smug when the presence depowered Asmodel. The rest of the time, he was on eggshells around Azzy.
Originally posted by Desaad
Tech means that it is within T'challa's ability to create. That his technology was, in a sense, able to overpower the ever powerful Mephisto.A mystical weapon of unknown power level doing it is totally different.A normal man with the Spear of Destiny can defeat the Spectre, take control of any hero that enters Europe, etc.
You'd have a point of Ralph started studying up on magic and cast the spell himself.
Dibny put Neron in a predicament that Neron was not expecting nor prepared for. Simply put, he beat him. Neron later being able to escape is nice..but doesn't mean that he wasn't owned.
BP owning Mephisto...was low as well.
Originally posted by Desaad
Sure, strategic intelligence played a part in it. But so too did his ability to build a machine, apparently, which translates to physical power and is quantifiable.
Both simply used their minds to own vastly older, and more powerful beings.
Originally posted by Avlon
[B]Had he said "I've been stripped of my rank!" then I could see that. It's obvious that he says "My powers" to which Zauriel reponds that the lord can take them away.
Agree to disagree, I suppose.
I didn't see Asmodel to be so greatly powerful previous to that, so maybe that is our disconnect. He was, after all, stalemated by both J'onn and Energy Superman for a great period of time.
He bailed when the presence got involved. Nothing more.He was smug when the presence depowered Asmodel. The rest of the time, he was on eggshells around Azzy.
You're blatantly ignoring everything I've said. He wasn't walking on egg shells...he was subtly manipulating. He organizes the entire defeat, the entire resistance, by planting the idea of sending Etrigan against Zauriel and getting him involved.
Then, when all is said and done, he gets away scot free and with the former general of the bull host of angels to torture.
Dibny put Neron in a predicament that Neron was not expecting nor prepared for. Simply put, he beat him. Neron later being able to escape is nice..but doesn't mean that he wasn't owned.BP owning Mephisto...was low as well.
Here is how I see the difference: Dibny outsmarted Neron, undoubtedly, but Neron's 'low showing' is one of planning or intelligence.
We can honestly say that it took nothing more than a forcefield and Black Panther's talons to nearly KILL Mephisto. This is an indictment of his physical abilities in addition to his intelligence (for being put into that position).
For the purposes of a vs thread, the only thing that really matters is physical might. Therefore, the Black Panther showing, as a long showing, is pertinent in this thread. But the Ralph Dibny showing, low though it is, holds no sway because it concerns comparable intelligence rather than any physical deficiency or defeat.
Originally posted by Desaad
Agree to disagree, I suppose.I didn't see Asmodel to be so greatly powerful previous to that, so maybe that is our disconnect. He was, after all, stalemated by both J'onn and Energy Superman for a great period of time.
It's clearly on panel. Asmodel was depowered and damned by the presence. So Neron has only had his way with a powerless Asmodel.
Originally posted by Desaad
You're blatantly ignoring everything I've said. He wasn't walking on egg shells...he was subtly manipulating. He organizes the entire defeat, the entire resistance, by planting the idea of sending Etrigan against Zauriel and getting him involved.Then, when all is said and done, he gets away scot free and with the former general of the bull host of angels to torture.
Either way, Neron has never in any way shown that he was more powerful than Azzy at full strength. The opposite was a stronger suggestion actually as per what happend on panel.
After all, Neron has been through this twice now. He was smart enough to get out of heaven in time. Once the presence got involved, he knew he wasn't winning.
Originally posted by Desaad
Here is how I see the difference: Dibny outsmarted Neron, undoubtedly, but Neron's 'low showing' is one of planning or intelligence.We can honestly say that it took nothing more than a forcefield and Black Panther's talons to nearly KILL Mephisto. This is an indictment of his physical abilities in addition to his intelligence (for being put into that position).
For the purposes of a vs thread, the only thing that really matters is physical might. Therefore, the Black Panther showing, as a long showing, is pertinent in this thread. But the Ralph Dibny showing, low though it is, holds no sway because it concerns comparable intelligence rather than any physical deficiency or defeat.
I agree on you on the outcome, I was simply pointing out low showings.
LOL at comparing BP thrashing Meph in a physical fight and Neron getting imprisoned by a spell in Fate's tower nonetheless.
And LOL at Azmodel being more powerful than Neron.
Anyone who has read the Paradise Lost mini knows that Neron was playing Azmodel as a fool the whole time.
Anyway as already been said Meph has so many low showings even in his OWN realm that's not fair to compare him with Neron.
Meph gets owned here.
Originally posted by comicfan11
LOL at comparing BP thrashing Meph in a physical fight and Neron getting imprisoned by a spell in Fate's tower nonetheless.
LOL @ them being tricked by humans...
Originally posted by comicfan11
And LOL at Azmodel being more powerful than Neron.
Nothing has been shown otherwise when Azzy is fully powered.
Originally posted by comicfan11
Anyone who has read the Paradise Lost mini knows that Neron was playing Azmodel as a fool the whole time.
Anyone who has read it knows that Neron betrayed Azzy once the presence got involved...otherwise, he was sticking it out. Like Neron is going to follow someone who's less powerful than him into battle.
Originally posted by comicfan11
Anyway as already been said Meph has so many low showings even in his OWN realm that's not fair to compare him with Neron.Meph gets owned here.
Not disagreeing with this one.