ANH Vader Vs Darth Sion

Originally posted by Tangible God
Just out of curiousity, where are you pulling your stats on Sion's saber skills? You said Vader is better, but because Sion isn't a slouch, he'd win? Pardon me, but that is absoluely terrible logic.

In pure logic, We are a higher evolved and more dangerous predator than lions,tigers, and bears so we should (According to your pure logic) be able to take on all three at the same time bare-handed and win.

Common Sense lets you in on the secret that any one of those could kill you easily.

I'll stick with common sense.

The assumption that Vader is somehow Sion's superior in the Force is completely absurd. We've seen a number of high end Force Users in the saga and Vader isn't in any shape or form among their number in having demonstrated anything quite unremarkable whatsoever. In being able to use the Force to cheat death, Sion succeeded where numerous other Force Users (including the likes of Sidious) failed. The ability is completely unprecedented, and indicative of truly extraordinary ability. That he's otherwise quite obscure isn't a reason to assume that Vader, who again, never truly displayed anything particularly impressive in his entire career, was the superior Force User. Sure, he performed a bunch of low end feats, outclassed a bunch of low end Force Users, but Sion was essentially one of those anomalous beings in the history of the Galaxy, and Vader's relatively average in comparison.

Originally posted by Tangible God
Just out of curiousity, where are you pulling your stats on Sion's saber skills? You said Vader is better, but because Sion isn't a slouch, he'd win? Pardon me, but that is absoluely terrible logic.

Terrible logic, how? I acknowleged Vader as being superior. That being said, if Sion was struck 10 times, and Vader 5 - who do think is going to survive?

I doubt Vader even outclasses him 2:1 so that's moot.

Originally posted by Taven
The assumption that Vader is somehow Sion's superior in the Force is completely absurd. We've seen a number of high end Force Users in the saga and Vader isn't in any shape or form among their number in having demonstrated anything quite unremarkable whatsoever. In being able to use the Force to cheat death, Sion succeeded where numerous other Force Users (including the likes of Sidious) failed. The ability is completely unprecedented, and indicative of truly extraordinary ability. That he's otherwise quite obscure isn't a reason to assume that Vader, who again, never truly displayed anything particularly impressive in his entire career, was the superior Force User. Sure, he performed a bunch of low end feats, outclassed a bunch of low end Force Users, but Sion was essentially one of those anomalous beings in the history of the Galaxy, and Vader's relatively average in comparison.

He showed a remarkable talent in his ability to hold his body together, but profiencey in one school does not translate to profiency in every school.

Originally posted by Taven
The assumption that Vader is somehow Sion's superior in the Force is completely absurd. We've seen a number of high end Force Users in the saga and Vader isn't in any shape or form among their number in having demonstrated anything quite unremarkable whatsoever. In being able to use the Force to cheat death, Sion succeeded where numerous other Force Users (including the likes of Sidious) failed. The ability is completely unprecedented, and indicative of truly extraordinary ability. That he's otherwise quite obscure isn't a reason to assume that Vader, who again, never truly displayed anything particularly impressive in his entire career, was the superior Force User. Sure, he performed a bunch of low end feats, outclassed a bunch of low end Force Users, but Sion was essentially one of those anomalous beings in the history of the Galaxy, and Vader's relatively average in comparison.

He has done impressive stuff like the choking Officers miles(I believe its more about perception but whatever).

And they seem to ignore Kreia because of a few lies here and there.

Sion is more or less immortal.

Originally posted by Tangible God
So because Sidious couldn't cheat death... Sion is more powerful than him in the Force?

He showed a remarkable talent in his ability to hold his body together, but profiencey in one school does not translate to profiency in every school.

2.Your a stubborn anti-kotor ******* that can't accept reality.

3.Palpatine was incapable of self-resurrection(he needed clone bodies)

4.He couldn't handle his own power(body started to deteriorate to a similar weakening effect as Nihilus consuming himself)

5.Sion was in perfect control of his body.

6.Sion was defeated in/with Dun Moch or the reverse of Dun Moch, no physical victory was possible.

7.Dooku, Palpatine, or any skilled and knowledgable user has a chance, but again a pure physical victory is impossible.

8.I suspect(due your stagnant and repetitive nature of arguing, inability to recognize when your wrong,the necessity to spell out obvious things to you over and over again, and ignorant stubborness) you are a Republican and by proxy, you are comparable to Bush when you speak.

Even when I first started I was better than that kind of inept and redundant way of debating.

I dicked around WAY too much and rarely tried to make sense, but atleast I'm man enough to admit it.

And now I shall abuse the smileys.

😠 😮‍💨 boxingcheerscoke😈fish

Originally posted by Tangible God
So because Sidious couldn't cheat death... Sion is more powerful than him in the Force?

Obviously there is natural proficiency with certain techniques to take into account, but generally, yes, that would be the most logical judgement to make. To truly substantiate the evidence we deal in, you need to form comparisons. That we have concrete evidence through such comparisons that Sion's invincibility truly was unique to him among many powerful Force users, including the one in question (Sidious), would suggest that his ability in the Force truly was remarkable, even among such company. So yes, I would have no problem concluding that Sion is logically the more impressive of the two. It's certainly more logical than claiming that Sidious is the stronger of the two because he has displayed [insert unsubstantiated degrees of proficiency] in multiple techniques, whereas Sion has only ever displayed an aptitude for one.

He showed a remarkable talent in his ability to hold his body together, but profiencey in one school does not translate to profiency in every school.

It generally does where the Force is concerned. Every single application in the Force is built up on the User's strength in the Force, and their control over it. An aptitude for one application in the Force acts as perfect testament for what essentially allowed such a level of aptitude in the first place: the mentioned strength in the Force and control over it. Sion's ability to cheat death speaks wonders for his raw power and mastery of the Force, which are essentially the building blocks of any and and every power that the Force has to offer, and unless we have sufficient evidence that Sion was unimaginably untalented in any other area of the Force, we can conclude that his overall level of ability in it was astronomical.

Sion was utterly subservient to both Nihilus and Traya. That he was able to keep his body together with the Dark Side is impressive, but not uniform. Look at Maw, one of the Dark Side adepts, who was able to keep himself alived after he'd been sliced in half.
Sion was defeated more than once and demonstrated no alarming ability with the Dark Side in any other area. He's not impressive to people like Palpatine, Bane or Kun by far.

And of course you think Sion is more impressive, Nebaris. Anything to bash the PT, hm?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Sion was utterly subservient to both Nihilus and Traya. That he was able to keep his body together with the Dark Side is impressive, but not uniform. Look at Maw, one of the Dark Side adepts, who was able to keep himself alived after he'd been sliced in half.
Sion was defeated more than once and demonstrated no alarming ability with the Dark Side in any other area. He's not impressive to people like Palpatine, Bane or Kun by far.

And of course you think Sion is more impressive, Nebaris. Anything to bash the PT, hm?

About Maw,He kept himself alive but could ressurect himself through the technique that Sion used. He was still killable.

Oh, Neb, I thought that 'SPECIALIZATION < VERSATILITY!!!', no? So when it applies to Sion- who only displayed an aptitude for a technique- he is automatically stronger than Sidious, who, displayed a far greater grasp, mastery, and level of skill in the force than Sion? Well, what a realization.

Palpatine could kill him by making him feel obsolete, out of date, or something like that.

Dun Moch and making someone doubt themselves are weapons in their own right.

On the whole "staving off death" topic: Palpatine pretty much fails. It's pathetic. I mean, Naga Sadow lives for well over seven hundred years before being murdered by Nadd. Marka Ragnos had been ruler for over a century as of his death, and I won't speculate on his age at ascension. Lord Simus, who Ragnos decapitated, survived in a jar-thing as a head, and the mysterious and now weak Andeddu managed to survive even in a rotting corpse of a body. The latter, of course, was killed by one of the newest Dark Lord's lieutenants.

Sion is not unique in that regard, although his physical functionality is impressive.

Originally posted by DarkSerpent
1. Sion impales himself like Vader did and sabers the life support
2.Vader strangles him and kills him and then starts to walk away, Sion resurrects self, Jumps and grabs Vader and punches life support until he dies.
3.Again Sion,"I can die a hundred times, Exile, and each time I shall rise, as strong as before." What part of Invincible do you stubborn asses not understand."As long as the dark side flows through the cracks of my flesh, I cannot be killed." "His flesh is cracked and scarred, and I'm registering several thousand fractures in his skeleton, as if each bone was splintered repeatedly, and then put back together. Judging from the scar tissue, these wounds took place before his death. If so, he must have been in constant pain." - Harbinger medical officer

As far as the chop him in pieces to kill him, that should explain that away. and besides that if chopping him to bits or killing him with the force was possible then HK-47 would have suggested that instead of making him doubt himself. [/B]

Arnold, when did Vader almost choke Marek?

Don't forget Nihilus's whole 'consciousness in his armor' thing.

As far as Sith species go, they used alchemy to preserve and extend their lives. Sadow put himself in suspended animated, I think. Heck, Arden Lyn when hit by Morichro was frozen in suspended animation for 25,000 YEARS...

Cheating death is really growing less and less exclusive. Andeddu was supposed to be physically decaying when he was still Dark Lord, too

Originally posted by Faunus
On the whole "staving off death" topic: Palpatine pretty much fails. It's pathetic. I mean, Naga Sadow lives for well over seven hundred years before being murdered by Nadd. Marka Ragnos had been ruler for over a century as of his death, and I won't speculate on his age at ascension. Lord Simus, who Ragnos decapitated, survived in a jar-thing as a head, and the mysterious and now weak Andeddu managed to survive even in a rotting corpse of a body. The latter, of course, was killed by one of the newest Dark Lord's lieutenants.

Sion is not unique in that regard, although his physical functionality is impressive.

Depends on how you look at it. As Publius himself says, Lord Simus survives as a skull. Palpatine survives complete disintegration. And unlike Lords Kun and Ragnos, his spirit was not anchored to a specific artifact or location.

Originally posted by Gideon
Depends on how you look at it. As Publius himself says, Lord Simus survives as a skull. Palpatine survives complete disintegration. And unlike Lords Kun and Ragnos, his spirit was not anchored to a specific artifact or location.

Originally posted by Faunus
And yet Palpatine, in the end, is still doomed.

And they aren't?

Unless I'm mistaken, due to tampering, his clone bodies keep deteriorating at even greater rates, until he is forced to go after the Skywalker/Solo child in a desperate attempt to stay alive.

Due to tampering by Carnor Jax; not any fallibility on the Emperor's part. Because those clones aren't a natural part of life, they cannot handle the intense destruction wrought by Palpatine's connection to the dark side of the Force.

Simus, Sadow, and Sion, to my knowledge, needed no such sustenance.

Sion was using his hate and strong places of the dark side to hold himself together. His statement to the Exile during their duel says that as long as Korriban's energies feed him, he cannot die, correct? Simus, too, was killed, as was Sadow.

Marka Ragnos, who died, was forced to tether his spirit to a specific place. Palpatine's spirit was without limitation.

Originally posted by Gideon
Depends on how you look at it. As Publius himself says, Lord Simus survives as a skull. Palpatine survives complete disintegration. And unlike Lords Kun and Ragnos, his spirit was not anchored to a specific artifact or location.

I...think you're incorrect about Ragnos, IIRC. His resting place was Korriban, yet he went to Cinnagar to proclaim Kun Dark Lord of the Sith.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Don't forget Nihilus's whole 'consciousness in his armor' thing.

As far as Sith species go, they used alchemy to preserve and extend their lives. Sadow put himself in suspended animated, I think. Heck, Arden Lyn when hit by Morichro was frozen in suspended animation for 25,000 YEARS...

Cheating death is really growing less and less exclusive. Andeddu was supposed to be physically decaying when he was still Dark Lord, too

@Gideon

*I'm seeking a honest opinion*

What do you think of the stuff I said about Tangible in this thread?

Did I own, was I right, Or did I do a shitness-make-a-fool out of myself.