Bane w. venom vs Classic Kingpin

Originally posted by Endrict Nuul
You cant change the fact that this is the classic version and his feats, so deal with it.

Never claimed I won't deal with 'em, and I now think that Kingpin has a fighting chance in this battle.

I actually hate it when people rule feats as PIS and refuse to acknowledge them. Even if they are PIS, they still need to be acknolwedged in a debate. And as much as I grudgingly must admit, classic KP is a friggin' BEAST.

Still, his opponents- Captain America, Spider-Man, Daredevil- seem to have gotten a lot stronger in recent years. Or did KP become weaker?

KP became weaker.

Even back then, Spider-Man and Cap were fast, but KP was fast enough to take them by surprise.

Nowadays, he's treated as an ordinary human with a big criminal empire.

KP became a lot weaker..

Well, in most of these comics, they are depicted to be outclassing Kingpin in speed, but Kingpin crushing them once he gets his hands on 'em.

Yeah, Kingpin was physically stronger than Spider-Man.

And I like modern Kingpin. I can appreciate a mastermind being a good fighter, but c'mon. You have to be a 'super' martial artist to compete with superhumans. Kingpin isn't.

Originally posted by geshien
Just looked at the respect thread.

Classic KP is a beast.

I'd encourage others to do the same. Classic KP is shocking in his power and skill. The slow depowerment into current KP is one of my biggest sadnesses in comics.

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Still, his opponents- Captain America, Spider-Man, Daredevil- seem to have gotten a lot stronger in recent years. Or did KP become weaker?

Both. But as earlier as issue 33 of ASM, Spidey was doing things that were >> 10 tons, well before his first encounter with KP. KP was legitimately that strong and pwoerful.

For some reason I just see Bane breaking Kingpin. Even without the venom, Bane seemed to be stronger than peak human could take hits.

PTR, what cartoon is that DP from???

DigiMark; Kingpin isn't a 'brawn'-based character. Why are you so unhappy if he degenerates in skill? It's not like that's his defining character trait.

Hell, even with characters like Magneto, who is a smart, complex villain, his mastery of magnetism is a defining character trait. If Batman suddenly got suckier in martial arts, it will piss me off. If Spidey was slower, it would be annoying. If Wolverine's healing factor was weaker, it would... make me happy. I hate that cheap healing factor.

Kingpin, though, is a smart crime boss. Just like I couldn't care less if Carmine Falcone could handle Batman in H2H, Kingpin isn't defined by his skill in fighting. He's more of a Lex Luthor type character than anything.

As you see, I have problems when characters defeat or hold their own against other characters which they would logically have no chance defeating. While I hate the using of PIS to make character feats redunant, these feats- while I suppose that they have to be accepted- are ridiculous. I mean, REALLY. Kingpin isn't even one of the world's greatest martial artist; he's not Batman, Deathstroke, or Lady Shiva. How the hell can he fend off Spider-Man, who is not only faster and more agile, but physically stronger as well?

That's, ultimately, why Modern KP > 'Classic' KP.

Originally posted by Endrict Nuul
PTR, what cartoon is that DP from???

Its Deadpool from the upcoming Wolverine vs Hulk cartoon.

http://vimeo.com/1662185

Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
Its Deadpool from the upcoming Wolverine vs Hulk cartoon.

http://vimeo.com/1662185

Thanks man......thats awesome to see. Def cant wait for this now.

Originally posted by Endrict Nuul
Thanks man......thats awesome to see. Def cant wait for this now.

No problem. I put it in your "Hulk vs Wolverine" thread, as not many people who are interested in that movie might not come into this topic.

If he's on "Venom", Bane breaks Kingpins head like a melon.

😄

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
DigiMark; Kingpin isn't a 'brawn'-based character. Why are you so unhappy if he degenerates in skill? It's not like that's his defining character trait.

Hell, even with characters like Magneto, who is a smart, complex villain, his mastery of magnetism is a defining character trait. If Batman suddenly got suckier in martial arts, it will piss me off. If Spidey was slower, it would be annoying. If Wolverine's healing factor was weaker, it would... make me happy. I hate that cheap healing factor.

Kingpin, though, is a smart crime boss. Just like I couldn't care less if Carmine Falcone could handle Batman in H2H, Kingpin isn't defined by his skill in fighting. He's more of a Lex Luthor type character than anything.

As you see, I have problems when characters defeat or hold their own against other characters which they would logically have no chance defeating. While I hate the using of PIS to make character feats redunant, these feats- while I suppose that they have to be accepted- are ridiculous. I mean, REALLY. Kingpin isn't even one of the world's greatest martial artist; he's not Batman, Deathstroke, or Lady Shiva. How the hell can he fend off Spider-Man, who is not only faster and more agile, but physically stronger as well?

That's, ultimately, why Modern KP > 'Classic' KP.

Lulz. Thanks for the dissertation, but we're allowed to like characters for different reasons. In the 60's, 70's, early 80's he was all of the good things you mentioned AND a beast who could match Spider-Man blow for blow. You say that wasn't his defining characteristic....but it's only not what they've more recently made his defining characteristic. Back then it was every bit as much an integral part of him as his smarts.

And he's actually had a ton of training. No, he's not Batman in skill, but he's had far more formal training than any but the most skilled MAists.

And yet another lulz at saying his feats are ridiculous. Comics are ridiculous. A 600 pound man honing it into pure muscle, training mercilessly, and being able to match Spidey is far from the most ridiculous thing I've read this month, let alone all-time. How is Cap bettering Spidey occasionally any less ridiculous? Better skill, far less physical stats. Same thing.

Also, whoever said Bane is beyond peak human and used it as a point for him, so is Classic KP. By a lot. Classic KP wins 9/10. Anyone who thinks it's a stomp in the other direction doesn't know KP. Maybe I'm biased and Bane would take the slight majority, but it's a straight fact that Classic KP is physically superior to anything close to peak human.

Originally posted by geshien
Bloodlust on.

Who wins?

Interesting, in a straight one on one fight Classic Fisk beats the shiite out of Bane..

However if Bane were to stay in the shadows and watch Fisk fight and fight and tire himself out, then I can see Bane destroy him..

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Only that that was 'classic' (read: Ridiculously overpowered) Kingpin. Batman is vastly more technically skilled than both the Captain and Red Skull; he also has at least equal speed and strength feats, being a peak human combatant. Kingpin, for all of his relative agility, should not be able to be as fast as someone who is a lot less heavy, and also focuses on speed and stealth.

Batman should, by all rights, beat Kingpin in a fair fight.

Technically they are about on par.

Kingpin is not as fast as cap or batman but he is fast enough to keep up with them.

Kingpin vs Batman is at the very least a 50-50- fight He has beaten guys faster and stronger then him and just as skilled in captain america red skull and Daredevil.

Kingpin is a good match against Bane Venom or no Venom.

Originally posted by godking
Batman is more technically skilled then skull not cap.

Technically they are about on par.

Kingpin is not as fast as cap or batman but he is fast enough to keep up with them.

Kingpin vs Batman is at the very least a 50-50- fight He has beaten guys faster and stronger then him and just as skilled in captain america red skull and Daredevil.

Kingpin is a good match against Bane Venom or no Venom.

Neither Daredevil nor Captain America are faster than Batman, and I would think that the guy who mastered 137 forms of martial arts- all forms known to mankind- would be more technically skilled than these too.

America, Red Skull, and Daredevil are not, in any way, on par with Batman when it comes to technical skill. Out of these three, only Captain America stands a chance in a fight against Batman.

Kingpin would die to Batman at least 7/10 times.

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Neither Daredevil nor Captain America are faster than Batman, and I would think that the guy who mastered 137 forms of martial arts- all forms known to mankind- would be more technically skilled than these too.

America, Red Skull, and Daredevil are not, in any way, on par with Batman when it comes to technical skill. Out of these three, only Captain America stands a chance in a fight against Batman.

Kingpin would die to Batman at least 7/10 times.

Batman is peak human Captain america is BEYOND peak human.

And yes captain america and DD are as technically proficient as batman.

Originally posted by godking
Captain America is easily faster then Batman.

Batman is peak human Captain america is BEYOND peak human.

And yes captain america and DD are as technically proficient as batman.

Riiight.

Batman - Studied all forms of MA known to Mankind.

DD - Studied a few MA's and Kickboxing.

Rules say they have a fair amount of knowledge of each other before they fight, and with Batman having learnt everything DD knows, Batman will school him in H2H.

Originally posted by godking
Captain America is easily faster then Batman.

Batman is peak human Captain america is BEYOND peak human.

And yes captain america and DD are as technically proficient as batman.

Well, Heap already pwned your 'DD and America are as skilled as Batman!'.

And Captain America is the absolute pinnacle of human perfection, just like Batman. He operates on purely human levels- he's not a metahuman. Therefore, they are physically on par.

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Neither Daredevil nor Captain America are faster than Batman,

DD - Studied a few MA's and Kickboxing.
Rules say they have a fair amount of knowledge of each other before they fight, and with Batman having learnt everything DD knows, Batman will school him in H2H.